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How can you prove the Trinity from the Bible in an easy way?

D
deltadom Jun 5, 2007

I was talking to a person on the street and he did not believe in the trinity, he believed in three seperate beings but not as one.

John 14
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Joh 8:58 - Show Context
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

I used some other scriptures but it is hard to get the concept of the trinity as it is a vital doctrine. Especially if someone does not believe it.
If you were on the street, how would you explain the Trinity from scripture?
Also what would be an easy way to explain Jesus as God? and things like Heaven and Hell?

sermonindex Jun 5, 2007

"There are two ways that people fall into heresy when discussing the trinity... by denying it and by trying to explain it" - Paul Washer [paraphrased]

P
PreachParsly Jun 5, 2007

three seperate beings but not as one.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

H
heartablaze Jun 5, 2007

1 John 3
12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 john 4
7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

sermonindex Jun 5, 2007

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Yea... this is the best one.

But wait! It's not in some modern versions, and if it is in one... it says "these three are in agreement"... and then the footnotes say it shouldnt be there anyway.

Very hard to proove the Trinity with a Modern Verion... and if you try to do it with a JW, they will eat your lunch. They actually have a guide in the books they carry with them door to door for how to use the Modern Versions against you, especially when it comes to the Trinity.

Funny tho... the version they try to avoid... the perverbial "silver bullet" is the [b]KJV[/b].

Krispy

sermonindex Jun 5, 2007

Thanks for pointing that out krispy... the NIV reads

7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

sermonindex Jun 5, 2007

[qutoe]Thanks for pointing that out krispy... the NIV reads

7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

and of course the understanding of the Trinity is not necessary for salvation.

I
InTheLight Jun 5, 2007

I know you asked for proof from the Bible and several good passages have already been mentioned but, you may find that Francis Schaeffer's work in his book [i]He is There and He Is Not Silent[/i] will be helpful in your understanding of the Trinity on a philisophical level and therefore help you to explain and defend the doctrine of the Trinity before others. Here's an example...
Every once in a while in my discussions someone asks how I can believe in the Trinity. My answer is always the same. I would still be an agnostic if there was no Trinity, because there would be no answers. Without the high order of personal unity and diversity as given in the Trinity, there are no answers.

God did not need to create; God does not need the universe as the universe needs Him. Why? Because we have a full and true Trinity. The Persons of the Trinity communicated with each other and loved each other before the creation of the world.

This is not only an answer to the acute philosophic need of unity in diversity, but of personal unity and diversity. The unity and diversity cannot exist before God or be behind God, because whatever is farthest back is God. But with the doctrine of the Trinity, the unity and diversity is God Himself -- three Persons, yet one God. That is what the Trinity is, and nothing less than this.

Nobody else, no philosophy, has ever given us an answer for unity and diversity. So when people ask whether we are embarrassed intellectually by the Trinity, I always switch it over into their own terminology -- unity and diversity. Every philosophy has this problem, and no philosophy has an answer. Christianity does have an answer in the existence of the Trinity. The only answer to what exists is that He, the triune God, is there.

(Francis A. Schaeffer, He Is There and He Is Not Silent, Ch. 1)

In Christ,

Ron

T
Tears_of_joy Jun 5, 2007

Also what would be an easy way to explain Jesus as God?

The Person of our Lord Jesus Christ has been and it is the main stumblingstone to many in the history and today. Because He is “a chief corner stone” to salvation, to understanding Scriptures, He is the very Word!
The enemy is “returning [b]again[/b] and again to his old work of attacking the foundation itself”

[b]1Petar 2:6[/b]
Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

[b]Romans 9:33[/b]
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
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Let us start with comparing few verses from the Old and New Testament:

Here is John introducing the coming of Jesus:

[color=0033CC][b]Mathew 3:3[/b][/color]
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the [b]Lord,[/b] make his paths straights

Compare with:

[color=0033CC][b]Isaiah 40:3[/b][/color]
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the[b] LORD (yeh-ho-vaw'),[/b] make straight in the desert a highway for [b]our God.[/b]

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[color=0033CC][b]Hebrews 1:8 [/b][/color]
But unto the [b]Son[/b] he saith,[b] Thy throne, O God,[/b] is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Compare with:

[color=0033CC][b]Psalam 45:6[/b][/color]
[b]Thy throne, O God,[/b] is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

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Here is Jesus speaking:

[color=0033CC][b]Revelation 22:12[/b][/color]
And, behold, [b]I come[/b] quickly; [b]and my reward is with me,[/b] to give every man according as his work shall be.

Compare with:

[color=0033CC][b]Isaiah 40:10[/b][/color]
Behold, the [b]Lord GOD[/b] [b]will come[/b] with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, [b]his reward is with him, and his work before him.[/b]

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[color=0033CC][b]Eph 4:8-10[/b][/color]
Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

[color=0033CC][b]Psalm 68:17-18 [/b][/color]
The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.
Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.
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[color=0033CC][b]John 12:37-42[/b][/color]
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
These things said Esaias, [b][u]when he saw his glory, and spake of him. [/u][/b]
Nevertheless among the chief rulers [b]also many believed on him;[/b] but because of the Pharisees they [b]did not confess him,[/b] lest they should be put out of the synagogue

Compare with:

[color=0033CC][b]Isaiah 6:1-3, 8,9 [/b][/color]
In the year that king Uzziah died [b]I saw also the Lord[/b] sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
And one cried unto another, and said, [b]Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD(yeh-ho-vaw') of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. [/b]
...
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

T
Tears_of_joy Jun 5, 2007

[color=0033CC][b][i]I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.[/i][/b][/color]

[color=0033CC][b]Isaiah 43:11[/b][/color]
I, even [b]I, am the LORD (yeh-ho-vaw'); and beside me there is no saviour.[/b]

[color=0033CC][b]Isaiah 45:21 [/b][/color]
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? [b]and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. [/b]

[color=0033CC][b]Hosea 13:4 [/b][/color]
Yet I am the [b]LORD thy God[/b] from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: [b]for there is no saviour beside me. [/b]


Compare with:

[color=0033CC][b]2 Peter 1:1 [/b][/color]
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and [b]our Saviour Jesus Christ:[/b]

[color=0033CC][b]2 Peter 1:11 [/b][/color]
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of [b]our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.[/b]

[color=0033CC][b]2 Peter 3:18 [/b][/color]
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of [b]our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. [u]To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.[/u] [/b]

[color=0033CC][b]2 Timothy 1:10 [/b][/color]
But is now made manifest by the[b] appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ,[/b] who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

[color=0033CC][b]Tit 2:13 [/b][/color]
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious [b]appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; [/b]

[color=0033CC][b]Act 4:10-12 [/b][/color]Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by [b]the name of Jesus Christ[/b] of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Neither is there salvation in any other: [b][u]for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. [/u][/b]

------------------------------------------------------

[color=0033CC][b]Isaiah 42:8 [/b][/color]
I am the LORD: that is my name: and [b]my glory will I not give to another,[/b] neither my praise to graven images.

[color=0033CC][b]Isaiah 48:11 [/b][/color]
For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? [b]and I will not give my glory unto another.[/b]

Compare with:

[color=0033CC][b]2 Peter 3:18 [/b][/color]
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of [b]our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. [u]To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.[/u] [/b]

E
Everett Jun 5, 2007

To prove what people call the trinity is not in the bible by its word alone but the only thing that comes close to describe it is the scripture in 1 John 5:7 that says "For there are THREE that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and these THREE are ONE."

But what i dont get is HOW THREE PERSONS CAN BE IN ONE PERSON. Isnt that what the trinity is? Three in one. Three seperate persons in the Godhead. If you dont understand then let me ask you this. How many persons are you? Arent you one person. Everything inside of you: spirit, soul, mind, will and emotions is you not seperate persons but you. Without your soul you could not be a human being. Without your spirit you could not live. The spirit without the body is dead right? Likewise as we were made in the image of God, God is one being, one person as states in Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person...". Jesus is the brightness of God's Glory and the express image of God's person not persons but person. He is one. You cant have three persons within one person it just doesnt work. Thats why Apostolic Pentecostals are in so much a disagrement with trinity believers. Now That doenst mean that we dont fellowship together but when it comes down to baptism what can you do? When it comes down to explaining God what do you say? So therefore we gotta have peaceful talks like these to maintain the love in the churches and seek the truth no matter what one person says and what the other person says. We all know that the bible is true and it cant tell us no lie. So maybe its time to go back to the word and expose old traditions and unscriptual doctrines and embrace the fellowship of the saints so that we as one body can resolve the issues we have within our churches today.

All for peace and the Glory of God.

God bless.

Please reply and lets discuss these matters.

sermonindex Jun 5, 2007

My take on the Trinity is not so much there are three persons in the Godhead. I see the Godhead as Two, but One. There is a Father, there is His Son. The holy Spirit is what the Father and the Son is. I see the Trinity as too confusing, complex and catholic.

The "other" comforter is the Spirit of the Father and the Son, hence holy Spirit or Ghost.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love [b]me[/b], he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and [b]we[/b] will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
There are analogies that I can share here, but surely you get the drift.

D
deltadom Jun 5, 2007

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

As I use a king james bible this is the best verse that I would probably use

sermonindex Jun 5, 2007

I was once told that the trinity is like a triangle that has three sides... seriously

P
PreachParsly Jun 5, 2007


jimdied2sin wrote:
I was once told that the trinity is like a triangle that has three sides... seriously

Well, at least they know that a triangle has three sides... at least I hope they don't believe in triangles with more or less sides. :-D

sermonindex Jun 5, 2007

My take on the Trinity is not so much there are three persons in the Godhead. I see the Godhead as Two, but One. There is a Father, there is His Son. The holy Spirit is what the Father and the Son is. I see the Trinity as too confusing, complex and catholic.

Interesting comment. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

J
JesusIsMyLrd Jun 5, 2007

QUOTE:
"Interesting comment. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?"

i have considered it before about the Spirit just being the substance of the Two. But as we look at the Word of God, it seems that there is a differnece that is made between the Holy Spirit and the Father and Son. It doesn't make such sense to believe in the triniy, but remember, God is beyond all that we can imagine.

i would caution all of us not to allow our human "reasoning" to get in the way.

Too confusing? Complex? i ask you by the name of the Living God: what are you thinking??? Of course it is!! This is GOD we're trying to figure out here? Is our veiw of Him so low that we would limit Him to our meager understanding?

Too Catholic? i don't think so. The early christians believed in the triune God... those who were taught by the apostles themselves. This was WAY before the catholics.

Don't put God into your human box... He doesn't really fit well...

Just my thoughts, based, i trust, on God's infallable Word.

God bless...

-nathan

sermonindex Jun 5, 2007

The early christians believed in the triune God...

do you have anything that show that? i'm specifically referring to before the council of Nicea.

D
deltadom Jun 5, 2007

I think it was Zac Poonan's comment that we have a holy spirit that leds us to holyness and Jesus.
I have even heard the holy spirit refered to as the force.

Joh 14:17 - Show Context
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh 15:26 - Show Context
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Joh 16:13 - Show Context
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

it is this passage

Eph 4:30 - Show Context
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption

J
JesusIsMyLrd Jun 5, 2007

Please see this book:

http://www.scrollpublishing.com/store/more-dictionary.html

It is a compilation of writings from the early Christians. Very good reading.

i'm not trying to promote or sell this book, but i encourage you to get it and look at it. The contents is copy-rited, and i don't have the book with me at this time. There is substantial documentation about it.

God bless you as you search this out. Please forgive me if i offended anyone with my strong speach earlier... i do want us to rightly see God, it is imperative to revived Christianity that shakes nations for the glory of God.

Peace in Christ,
-nathan

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