Women: to wear or not to wear pants?

My wife and I recently visited an Independent Baptist Church. This church has a tremendous testimony in the community. I find myself in agreement with 95% of their teachings.

So, on a week when we changed the day our house church meets due to people being out of town, we decided to visit this church.

The service was great, the preaching was outstanding. Wish the people were a little warmer toward us, but being "house churchers" we more accustomed to hospitality than most traditional churches are.

Anyway... one thing my wife picked up on was every single woman there had on a dress. She did too... but she wondered if the church had a rule about women and pants.

We know a few of the people in that church, and my wife ran into a them this week, and she noticed... they all had dresses on at the store. My wife had on Capri's, I think they are called.

To make a long story short, my wife discovered that they do not think that women should wear pants... no matter what. And if it's an activity that would make wearing a dress inconvenient, then it is not an activity that Christian women should be involved in. Even something like horse back riding.

Being a gracious soul, my wife figured if thats their conviction, so be it. As long as they are doing it unto God... fine. Kinda like the head covering issue.

However, it resulted in my wife not feeling like getting too involved with these ladies because she would feel uncomfortable around them. Nothing against wearing dresses, but we dont share their "conviction" about it. And my wife refuses to dress like them in order to "fit in" because then she would be a fake.

I agree with her.

Had anyone ever run into this? Does anyone have this conviction? I'd love to have a discussion about this because I'm curious about where this comes from.

I think we all agree that modesty if of utmost importance. Is it that they consider pants immodest? Certainly skin tight jeans and stuff are out of the question for a Christian woman, but what about pant suits, loose fitting pants, capris, etc?

Oh... and in this church men do not wear shorts... ever. That rules me out! LOL

Krispy

And they call me a legalist ?

I feel for your wife Krispy. When I very first got saved, just a month or two in Christ - I went to the laundra-mat in slacks.
A lady there asked me, "Don't you think you're going to hell in those pants ?"

Being scared to death of losing my Salvation, I shook all the way home and prayed like crazy.

The Lord, in HIS mercy and grace spoke in His still small voice and though I didn't know the Bible very well (of course) it was clear as a bell that I should open to Deut 22 and felt a strong admonition to read the whole chpt, plus some.
After doing so, I began to cry in relief. You see I'm really very afraid of "displeasing Him" and whenever these things happen, I feel like a child running to Daddy to let me know if I did something wrong or not.

Well, he showed me very plainly that this pertained to things that either were or bordered on transvestite, etc, behavior.

I think woman should wear loose fitting cloths, modest tops etc and not short-shorts, I like capris too and that's as short as I go in public too, but that's about as far as I go with this External Legalism.
Where we live also, the outward dress people look down on all of the other Christian, and you can see "that look" from them and it's sad - Because if they judge another's salvation - they're the ones in trouble of judging and not understanding Salvation.

Not that my opinion matters much. But I know what the Lord spoke to my heart when I heard clearly to open to Deut 22 (which I hadn't even read any O.T. yet, so how would I know where to look --- GOD is GOOD) ... so I don't' feel that part is "my" opinion.

Bless you all up yonder.

Edit: When I started to type my reply, there were no other Replies up yet.

I also pray this isn't a point of contention.
I respect other's views, as long as they don't condemn other's to hell for theirs.
Thanks.

I hope this would be a profitable and edifying discussion for searching the will of God in this matter and not just out of curiosity.

...of course, thats what I was implying.

Krispy

yes I do, I think in alot ways plants are inmodest.

Really? I've often thought that tomato plants were very immodest, and I know corn stalks have been a stumbling block in my life.

:-P

Just having a little fun with your misspelling!

Krispy

Where we live also, the outward dress people look down on all of the other Christian, and you can see "that look" from them and it's sad...

Yes, I experienced that "look" recently. The Baptist churches in our county had a week long tent meeting. I emailed one of the messages from that meeting to some people on this forum.

The day they set up the tent they put the word out that they needed help. This was a huge "big top" tent. So I rousted my two oldest out of bed early that Saturday morning, and we went up to help.

There about 25 - 30 men there to help... I was the only one in shorts and a "muscle" shirt. The shorts were camoflauge "cargo" shorts, the kind that have a lot of nice big pockets down the leg, ya know. The "muscle" shirt was simply a t-shirt w/out sleeves, and on the front is a huge cross with a lion on it with the name of the youth wrestling club I coach, and on the back it says "THE LORD IS MY STRENGTH".

Had my ball cap on backwards.

Was wearing my old Marine Corps boots.

Boy... you should have seen the looks I got. Now, the pastors there were very nice to me, I will say that. It helps that I know a couple of them personally. But the regular Joe's that were there to help out were literally gawking at me.

I didnt think I looked that wierd, but to them, I guess I did. I was there to work, I wasnt there for a fashion show. And there were no women there at all... so if I caused anyone to lust, well... that dude has other issues. LOL

Not being one to care a whole lot about what people think of me, we just pitched in and worked up a good sweat.

...but do you think anyone would talk to me? Nope.

I'm all for people following their convictions, but when it becomes a thing where they look down their noses at people who may not share their convictions... thats sin.

Krispy

The standard has fallen so low.

No question about that. I agree. And I enjoy hearing from you sisters who share this conviction. See, this is what I wanted... and honest discussion, and testimonies for or against. It helps me to understand this conviction some have. I really want to learn...

Krispy

Krispy, your post reply to me put Holy Spirit tears in my eyes.

Do you know how hard it is to get "volunteers" to come out and help ?

I founded a Volunteer Org and all the Churches in town were gun-hoe about it - till the time came to "mow, rake leafs, shovel snow for the elderly in our town". I had to mostly work alone friend.

That you woke your boys up to help too, is such a testimony of what you're teaching them about getting out there "and DOING SOMETHING" for others.

You 'knew' there would be no woman there.

Your story breaks the heart.

To quote Zac Poonen again, if I may.

7. Freedom from hypocrisy
The Bride has more spiritual content inwardly than others can see in her externally. Her hidden life is better than the opinion that others have of her external life. This is the exact opposite of the `spiritual adulteress' or the `Harlot,' whose so-called spirituality is only meant for receiving the honour of men. What she has is actually `religiosity' and not true spirituality. The bride watches her inner thoughts, motives and attitudes far more than her external words and actions. She longs for God's approval over her inner life and cares nothing at all for man's approval of her external life. By this test, each of us can know whether we are part of the Bride or of the Harlot.

Who were the only ones that Jesus & Paul get rough with while here in the flesh.
Woman should dress in a way, to not cause men to look at them. You know what I mean Krispy.

I respect other's dress codes. Mine are thought to be strick ... but I'm more afraid of 'judging others' when it comes to what they're wearing.
Pastors should preach on modest apparel, but we all should not feel that we can see a person's heart by what they have on. And also give each other time to grow in our/their God-Given convictions.

God Bless all here.
In His Love.

Hi Krispy and all

We call them trousers in the UK, "pants" are male or female [i]underwear[/i]; but I get what you mean!

Just to point out the obvious fact that men's and women's "pants" are usually different - the shape and the kind of zip for example. I think the ones I wear look feminine - no man would wear them, that's for sure!

As for modesty, I think they are far more modest than a skirt, for jobs like nursing and physoiotherapy, or for activities like aerobics classes, or mountain climbing! Certainly more modest than mini skirts!

As someone said, the Biblical principle is against immodesty and transvestitism, not what particular garment one shouid or should not wear.

Personally my preference for (reasonably loose) "pants" is more because they are comfortable, and it's much quicker to dress in them rather than wearing tights and a skirt!

In Aftrica I used to wear mostly skirts because it was too hot for anything except the loosest, most airy garment possible. Except sometimes in the evenings, where mosquitoes can get at your legs more easily in skirts!

Think I mentioned the funny thing that in the local language my sirname (Parry) sounds like the local word for "pants", "mpari" (= underwear or otherwise). Some people really thought my name was "Miss Knickers" :lol:

Modesty decency, and not looking like the opposite sex, are the important things in dress.

Blessings

Jeannette

GrannieAnnie wrote:
Krispy, your post reply to me put Holy Spirit tears in my eyes.

Do you know how hard it is to get "volunteers" to come out and help ?

I founded a Volunteer Org and all the Churches in town were gun-hoe about it - till the time came to "mow, rake leafs, shovel snow for the elderly in our town". I had to mostly work alone friend.

That you woke your boys up to help too, is such a testimony of what you're teaching them about getting out there "and DOING SOMETHING" for others.

You 'knew' there would be no woman there.

Your story breaks the heart.

To quote Zac Poonen again, if I may.

7. Freedom from hypocrisy
The Bride has more spiritual content inwardly than others can see in her externally. Her hidden life is better than the opinion that others have of her external life. This is the exact opposite of the `spiritual adulteress' or the `Harlot,' whose so-called spirituality is only meant for receiving the honour of men. What she has is actually `religiosity' and not true spirituality. The bride watches her inner thoughts, motives and attitudes far more than her external words and actions. She longs for God's approval over her inner life and cares nothing at all for man's approval of her external life. By this test, each of us can know whether we are part of the Bride or of the Harlot.

Who were the only ones that Jesus & Paul get rough with while here in the flesh.
Woman should dress in a way, to not cause men to look at them. You know what I mean Krispy.

I respect other's dress codes. Mine are thought to be strick ... but I'm more afraid of 'judging others' when it comes to what they're wearing.
Pastors should preach on modest apparel, but we all should not feel that we can see a person's heart by what they have on. And also give each other time to grow in our/their God-Given convictions.

God Bless all here.
In His Love.

Yes, it's what's in the heart that counts.

Even my mother who worked in the local steelworks during WWII, becaue the men were mostly off to war, had to wear dungarees (like the traditional idea of the hillbilly) [i]for modesty[/i], as they had to do a lot of bending and stretching, for example when putting the cables on the steel sheets for the crane to pick them up.

She met my Dad there, and they were married less than a year later - rather romantic - especially as neither of them (being shy) had ever gone out with anyone else. (Dad's health wasn't good enough to go to war, and the steelworks was vital to the war effort anyway)

Jeannette

This is an interesting thread and I appreciate your heart on the issue, Krispy. Thanks for bringing this topic up. I read your thread this morning and have been mulling over it and pondering what to say. Some of the things I have to say are foundational principles of modesty and I tried not to get into the nitty gritty too much but some things do have to be brought up in a discussion on modesty. I tried to keep my words discreet, if anyone has a problem with what I said or how it was worded please let me know.

I do have the conviction to not wear pants and it is because I don’t want to wear anything that would be defrauding to a brother in the Lord, or even an unbeliever (and as Paul Washer would say, ‘a potential brother in Christ’). What is defrauding? Defrauding is raising expectation or desires in another person that I cannot righteously fulfill at this time. So, how do I as a woman determine what is defrauding to a man? That’s a tough one because a woman’s mind is so different from a man’s mind. But I have listened to my dad and what is a stumbling block to him, I have read books or heard from various sources what is tempting to men. It’s interesting that what may bother one man will not affect another one.

So what is about pants that makes them immodest? Loose pants have been mentioned, but I must say that most of the loose pants that I have seen worn will ultimately become tight as a woman bends over and reveals her feminine curves or other things. Where is the eye drawn when pants are worn on a woman? Have you ever noticed what parts of the body pants tend to emphasize? Please be honest here. Why do guys like to see women in pants? Partial exposure or emphasizing parts of the body can be as tempting if not just as much tempting to men as disclosure.

Girls, where do you want men to look? At your body or face? Our clothing should be such as causes others to focus on our countenances and not on the clothes we are wearing. Do our clothes frame our faces or our bodies?

I will admit that very loose pants with a long tunic could be modest. :) But why not wear a modest dress or skirt? Now that’s a whole other subject about the modesty of skirts, jumpers and dresses.

It is a challenge to dress modestly. It takes more time and energy that just throwing on jeans and a t-shirt. But it’s worth it. I’ve never heard a guy complain about women dressing too modestly in our church, rather I’ve heard appreciation and gratitude that we care enough to dress that way.

I want to please my Lord in how I dress and I cannot in good conscience wear something that would be a stumbling block to someone else. And wearing dresses isn’t that bad. You can do a lot in a dress. There are very few activities that you can’t do in a skirt. I’ve ridden horses, played volleyball, basketball, softball, kickball, tennis, gone hiking, walking, fishing, canoeing, well, I think you all get the point. :) Dresses aren’t as limiting as you might think! To be honest, it’s been so long since I’ve worn pants in public that I would feel partially undressed if I were to wear jeans in public, what a horrifying thought!

This is just where God has me. And I can accept my sisters in the Lord who don’t agree with me on this because our unity in Christ isn’t based on similar convictions but rather on the glorious work that He has done in saving our souls. Christ has done so much for me, surely this is a small sacrifice to make for Him.

Nancy Leigh DeMoss’s teaching on modesty has been a great blessing to me and very helpful. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in this issue of life. You can read the radio transcripts or download the MP3 files off of her website: http://www.reviveourhearts.com/radio/roh/today.php?pid=971 I think the broadcast on modesty was from May 23 to June 10. There are some more resources on this webpage: http://www.reviveourhearts.com/topics/topic.php?topic_name=Modesty%2FSexual%20Purity

Well, I hope ya’ll have heard my heart on this. Please know that in no way do I judge or condemn those who disagree. I have seen a weakness in groups like you encountered, Krispy, to not accept other Christians who may be ‘different’ than they are, and that is wrong and unChristlike. I also disagree with the use of the Deuteronomy passage to defend modesty. I think that is taken out of context when used to condemn women wearing pants. But you all have already pointed out the principle that is found there (women are to dress like women, etc).

One more thing, Ian said that pants are a cultural thing. Well, how far are we to go in fitting in with the culture? If it is the cultural thing to wear a bikini to the beach or some public place does that give a Christian woman the excuse to do so? I would contend that pleasing Christ comes before fitting into the culture.

I do have the blessed privilege of being part of a fellowship where all the women wear modest dresses, it is not a church ordinance but something that comes from hearts desiring to glorify God.

Well, there's a little bit from me. :-)

~Joy

Joy... great post, sister. There is a lot to chew on there. Some things in there I hadnt considered.

I know for me, a high testosterone guy, it doesnt take much to catch my eye. It's a constant struggle. Fortunately my wife is a hottie :-) ... that helps... lol

Anyway, I appreciate your heart on this issue.

And I can accept my sisters in the Lord who don’t agree with me on this because our unity in Christ isn’t based on similar convictions but rather on the glorious work that He has done in saving our souls.

Amen to this... and I think that is probably the most important part of this, or any conviction we may have. Everything from drinking a beer now and then to music to Bible versions. I think there are different reasons why God lays one conviction on a brothe/sister, and not on another. And who are we to judge that?

Now, my wife is not opposed at all to weaing dresses. She wears sun dresses a lot in the summer for the same reasons someone else brought up concerning the heat and humidity. I know that when we do visit traditional church, like the one we are speaking of, one problem she has wearing a dress is that we have a 2 yr old who thinks she is his personal climbing rock. She is constantly having to adjust her dress everytime he crawls up and down on her. It's rather annoying to her.

And by the way, someone mentioned rock climbing being hard to do in a skirt... my wife enjoys rock climbing with me. I'll ask her if she's willing to try it in a dress sometime... lol. She really likes the repelling part. Her dress could act as a parachute!

All joking aside tho... there has been some great input here. I hope this continues.

I'm listening and taking notes, y'all. Looks like I might have to do a teaching on this in our church once I figure out what God is trying to show me in all this.

Krispy

Wow, all good posts here.
Joy, I doubt you could offend if you tried.
I enjoyed every one of these posts.

Whenever I wear slacks or capris I always where tunics. I won't even tuck my shirt into a skirt. All being loose fitted.
This topic came up before, so forgive me if I repeat myself ... but I think women should wear cloths that make it look so that only their husbands know if they're fat or not. I love long dresses and skirts, but I tend to dress closest to whatever Church I'm visiting or who I'm with. Not to cause anyone to feel uncomfortable when with them.
Paul said, I become all things to all men. I can live without the make-up and slacks and necklace, if it offends friends that I want to visit at their Church, etc.
I guess that's sort of a 1Corth 10 thing - the last how many verses there.
I didn't think of wearing slacks to Church, but at this Church, they do - so now I do sometimes too because at a mid-week service, I don't want the other sisters to think I'm holier then them. I have mostly to the ankle dresses, but these folks don't wear them - so I've gone through me closet to find the tea length or just below the knee ones that people have given me.
Ha - cloths for every occasion, just to not offend or make anyone feel uncomfortable.

WWII was when women needed to wear pants because in certain jobs, as Jeanette brought up, because no matter how long your skirt was/is also, some men just don't have pure minds and some types of work in skirts, like climbing ladders or tree pruning etc. is embarrassing if nothing else.

I guess it all boils down again to not making anyone stumble or feel lesser than ourselves and both at the same time.

Blessings!

We as boys still had to swim in full length pants and a t-shirt. Ever go recreational swimming in jeans and a shirt? Been there- done that.

You're lucky no one drowned! Try full uniform with a 50 pound pack on your back... been there, done that.

When I was a kid we'd bail hay all afternoon, then jump buck-naked into the creek. Not coed, but all us farm boys.

I mention all these things with tremendous respect for those who held sincerely these convictions.

Amen here... I'm not looking to change my convictions, unless the Holy Spirit prompts me to. Then I only want to be obedient. But I think when we gain understand into [i]why[/i] some people have these convictions it leads to respect between us. This is a very important point you make here.

If you dress in ANY way that seeks to attract attention to yourself whether in modesty or not I cannot help but believe it is sin. Will God share the glory in His house? Women tell me there is little more seductive than a sharp dressed man. A man in a sharp suit. Totally covered- but alluring all the more. Same with a woman. I have heard men say that a woman dressed nice is more enticing than one dressed as a street walker. I believe he is right. Cheap is cheap is cheap is cheap.

I've been in "dresses only" churches where the women dressed in extravegant dresses... I mean you would have thought it was Oscar night or something. Not immodest, but extremely showy. I've also seen some preachers who dress to the hilt... and then they have some great fall. I find it interesing, ever watch a Mafia movie? What are those killers wearing? Suits and ties.

They look like preachers...

So, for my 2 cents, I would say for all of us that we should never dress in a way that seeks to entice. This is not a statement about what you are wearing- but of your intentions in wearing it.

Now thats wisdom! Amen.

Krispy

Whenever I wear slacks or capris I always where tunics. I won't even tuck my shirt into a skirt. All being loose fitted.

Being a guy, and not having ever watched Queer Eye for the Straight Guy... I have to ask:

Whats a tunic?

Krispy