Sin and Love

I once heard a street preacher ask a young man, "Do you love God?" The man said, "Yes." The preacher said, "Do you obey Him?" The young man answered, "Not all the time."

The preacher said, "Then you don't love Him all the time."

He was, of course, basing this on Jesus' statement: If you love me, you'll keep my commandments.

Saints, do you believe each and every time you transgress (sin) against the knowledge of God, it happens because, for that time, you stopped loving God? Is our love for God like a water faucet - something we can turn off and on at our will? I'm curious to know what everyone thinks about this. Do you think the preacher (John Duncan) was out of line in equating temporal disobedience to a temporal lack of love?

Brother Paul

It would be my persuasion that it is for lack of love that we sin- for if we love Him, we will not want to sin and will always call out to Him for deliverance, but it is when we lack supreme love for Him, and love our sin more, that is lacking love for Him.

Just as when you were a child, and loved your parents, you sometimes disobeyed, because you allowed your selfish desires to overcome the love for your parents: i see it similar (though not a perfect parallel) to our love for Christ.

As for the preacher there, he might as well have said that to himself that He doesn't always love God, for i'm sure he is not perfect either.

Remember too, that John said that "He that commiteth sin is of the devil" commiteth is a present-continuous tense, meaning that one is continuing willfully in sin-- this man loves not God, but his own fleshly carnality. But the saint that sins, there is 1 John 2:1 that gives us hope of forgiveness...

Let's love Him and STRIVE to walk in the Holy Spirit of God...

Just my thoughts.

God bless,
-nathan

Good post, Nathan.

I suppose the famous saying "The ones we love most we hurt the most" may aptly apply here. When children are disobedient, they are being selfish. I think the problem arises when someone is [i]maliciously[/i] disobedient, that is, fully intending on being disobedient because they despise authority.

But can we not despise God and still be disobedient? That is, can we love God and sin against Him, hating the sin while still loving Him?

Brother Paul

My dear brother thet quetion is of utmost importance.

Saints, do you believe each and every time you transgress (sin) against the knowledge of God, it happens because, for that time, you stopped loving God?

Is our love for God like a water faucet - something we can turn off and on at our will?

The ones we love most we hurt the most" may aptly apply here.

can we love God and sin against Him, hating the sin while still loving Him?

Iam sorry again, but it apears as if there was a contradiction in that question.I can't agree in the part where one loves God and sins against him and in where you hate the sin you just did to hurt God. Love is shown through actions and if I tell you that I love you and the following day I curse you and do somthing wrong to you then my confession of love does not hold true. The same happens with God.
Many people are out there thinking themselfs to be right with God, when their actions are saying the total oposite. Can you immagine the tought of a Christian living just like the world does? I am shure you can.It only takes one sin to be a sinner.I am sorry if I may seem rude, is just that the truth must be told. If Christ came and died so that men may still live in their sins then what is the differens betwen a seved person and a sinner? Is it that those who ackolege Christ as their seiior have the lisence to sin agaist him?Nonesense. If we read the Bible there are several verses That clearly tell us that a child of God does not live in his sins and does not sin agaist God.Read Romans 6:2"how shall we,that are dead to sin live any longer therein". Romans 6:6 "knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin" My dear friend I hope this has answered your questions.May God bless you.

Saints, do you believe each and every time you transgress (sin) against the knowledge of God, it happens because, for that time, you stopped loving God?

I'm not so sure this is the case. I think the transgression is more closely associated with lack of faith than lack of love. The verse from John 14, "if ye love me , keep my commandments" immediately follows upon Christ's exhortation to faith (v. 9-14).

Love and obedience follow faith.

In Christ,

Ron

Hello dear brother (or sister). Thanks for your reply! Let's look at a few things:

You wrote this:

when you love somebody you do not hurt them.

The question is, did David lay with Bathsheba because he stopped loving God? Did Peter deny Christ because he stopped loving Jesus? When you sin in word, thought or deed - do you stop loving God? Maybe, depending on how you or I see it. But I contend, rather, that it is important to ascertain how [i]God who knows the heart[/i] sees it. Can we cookie-cut an issue like this? Does God [i]always[/i] see us as unloving children (if you love Me, obey My commandments) or, rather, disobedient sons in need of correction (whom God loves, He chastens). Be honest: When a child disobeys his mother, does she automatically account it to him not loving her? Or what about immaturity? Or selfishness? Does she always need to wring he hands and cry "My baby stopped loving me!!" every time the kid messes up? I know of children that though they disobey and grieve their moms and dads...inwardly they [i]love[/i] them, though they may not readily admit it or show it.

Have you sinned since your conversion? If you've walked clean with God for 10 years and sinned (missed the mark) yesterday...does this mean that the previous 10 years were not as they ought? This is what can be concluded from your first paragraph:

The answer is yes, and the truth is that it is not just for that time, but your relesionship with God was not as it ought to have been.

Judging from this next paragraph, it appears we might be talking about two different things:

If Christ came and died so that men may still live in their sins then what is the differens betwen a seved person and a sinner?

The post wasn't about "living in sin"; the post was about the random acts of sin...the "if" in that "if" a man sins he has an Advocate. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I admire your zeal for sinless living, and I support it 100%. Thank you!

God bless you, friend!

Brother Paul

My brother, I am sorry if I gave you the wrong impression of what I ment to say. You are right, there are ifs, and thank God for his mercy that even tought somethimes we may fail him he still loves us and is willing to forgive us. If you have been saved for 10 years and let's supose yesterday you sinned,it does not mean that you wasted those 10 years serving God, We are Humans and we may fail God, but what I am trying my best to say is that you have faild God once or perhaps twice, but you fell sorry and You never do it again. David, that I know of, only sined agist God that one time and after that he never did it agin.The saime happened with Peter;He wept and was sorry he had done it, and never faild him again. Hope this clarifies what I ment to say.God bless.

We love God because He first loved us, to the degree in which we experience the knowledge of that love in our emotions, will greatly affect the degree in which we submit our will in obedience to God's desires for us, which is a tangible reflection of our love for Him. This comes out of private devotion to Him. The Psalmist requested that He might be "in" the fear of the Lord all the day long, so that makes me believe that it is possible to turn it off and turn it on.

I think Peter answered well when after the ressurection of Jesus from the grave he gave his 3 yeses to Jesus question on love (agape) with yes (phileo) type love. Thats why Paul was always trying to have the believers love for (in) Christ perfected, or move toward perfection.

There are some interesting dynamics though when it comes to love and obedience and self will and that whole area.

Is our love for God like a water faucet - something we can turn off and on at our will?

Hi brother Paul,

I believe that J.Duncan was asking this question to an unbeliever, right?

I think it cannot be applied this example in the same manner to someone who is child of God and in relationship with Christ, and the one who is not, I think it's not the same. For example, your question:

Do you think the preacher (John Duncan) was out of line in equating temporal disobedience to a temporal lack of love?

If this is unbeliever, he has no personal relationship with Christ, he has never loved Christ so that this love may stopped in given moment or to have some temporal love or temporal lack of love? The unregenerate man may have some sympathy to Christ, but not true love.

On the other side, the truly born again child of God has this love to His Saviour and Lord, to His Jesus.

1John 4:19
We love him, because he first loved us.

it's interesting that before to see your post, the very subject on which I was meditating was the love of God. I was thinking, isn't His love first that provoked us to love Him?

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

I started thinking, sometimes God has given me some answers comparing or thinking of some relations here on earth.

I started thinking on those questions.

I know what it means to sin against the one who you love the most. I know the brokenness and crushing thoughts that are coming after that. The very thought about that is unbearable. You can live only if you know that this sin is forgiven. You will say, why you have sinned if you loved so much? I will say, oh the foolishness of my own heart. You know that you will give the very life to the one that you love.

I don't believe that our relationships with God are mechanic and He acts like computer program. When I think about Peter and others, and when the Lord Jesus served a fish and bread to Peter, what can I say except: "For the love of Christ constraineth us;"

When our Lord Jesus said to Peter:

31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

32 But I have prayed for thee, [b]that thy faith fail not:[/b] and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Was not the prayer of our Lord heard? I don't think so, even thought Peter said: "I know him not." after few moments.

But yes, the prayer was answered.
For me the relationship of our Lord Jesus toward Peter is something beyond my comprehension, something so high, so breaking, so...

These are my thoughts.
Thank you for listening,

Unprofitable servant,
Kire

Greetings to all
The only love we were capable of before God gave us unto Christ was a selfish love, not the charitable love that is a true mark of Christianity. We loved OUR selves, OUR friends and OUR family. God’s love is poured out on the just and the unjust and as God’s children we are to love as our Father does.

Remember how when you were first saved the love you begin to experience, love for people outside your circle of family and friends. That was the Spirit of God working in you. The manifesting of that loving Spirit of God to the world around you will cause your countenance to change and you receive a spiritual healing and a great feeling of wellness.

At first we found it easy to love and forgive strangers and obey authority and be humble and harmless. Then came the day that our new love was tested and we failed the test and became angry and retaliated and we discovered that all our old self was not dead.
I think most people including myself became confused at this point not realizing that The Love of God is being perfected in us by trials that teach us that first of all that charitable love is not the norm, and is not acceptable outside of Christ. We become hurt and further confused leading to, guess what? Anger and sin if we don’t forgive and love the one who hurt us. But we have The Good Shepard that when we except this cross will brings us back into the fold and restores our souls and we are forgiven and made stronger. The Love of God is being perfected in us and we some day we will shine forth as the sons of God if when we are tempted we wait upon the Lord who is our strength and when we fail, as we all know we will we approach our Heavenly Father in the name of our advocate Christ Jesus and ask forgiveness.

Bro Paul, long time no see. I found your question to be very interesting and one that made me think.
I don't think that everytime we sin against the Lord we, for that moment, lack in our love for Him. I think we as Christians and i'm speaking in general terms, love the Lord but happen to be trapped in these bodies of flesh and as long as we live on this fallen earth we will fall into sin and do sinful acts.
No one can keep the commandments that the Lord God has provided. There was only one who did that and He was Jesus.
Remember that before King David committed adultery and murder God called him a man after His own heart. I love the Lord and depend on Him but there is not one person on earth that loves the Lord with all their heart, soul and mind.
I am not saying it's ok to sin or that this is an excuse for us to sin. I'm simply saying that we are in a warfare where the flesh and spirit war amongst each other. What we as Christians should do is to call on the Lord at every chance we have and to live our lives undr the total influence of the Holy Spirit. God bless you Paul your brother always Julio