speaking in tongues

This type of tongues is called "glossolalia". You can read more about it [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia]here[/url].

We need to remember who Paul was addressing: the Church at Corinth. What was near Corinth?

"[b]Delphi[/b] is located on a plateau on the slope of Mount Parnassus, next to the Sanctuary of Apollo, the site of the ancient Oracle. This semicircular spur is known as Phaedriades, and overlooks the Pleistos Valley. Southwest of Delphi, about 15 km away, is the harbor-city of Kirrha on the [b]Corinthian Gulf[/b]." [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_of_Delphi#Oracle]Oracle of Delphi - Wikipedia[/url]

"Glossolalia is evident in the renowned ancient [b]Oracle of Delphi[/b], whereby a priestess of the god Apollo (called a sibyl) speaks in unintelligible utterances, supposedly through the spirit of Apollo in her."

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia]Glossolalia - Wikipedia[/url]

"Apollo spoke through his oracle, who had to be an older woman of blameless life chosen from among the peasants of the area. The sybyl or prophetess took the name Pythia and sat on a tripod seat over an opening in the Earth. When Apollo slew Python, its body fell into this fissure, according to legend, and fumes arose from its decomposing body. Intoxicated by the vapors, the sibyl would fall into trance, allowing Apollo to possess her spirit. In this state she prophesied. She spoke in riddles, which were interpreted by the priests of the temple, and people consulted her on everything from important matters of public policy to personal affairs."

[url=http://www.nwe.ufl.edu/~gulmer/academy/e.html]Delphi @ University of Florida[/url]

"[b]The City of Corinth was less than 50 miles across the Corinthian Gulf from Delphi[/b]. To the Greeks, Delphi was considered the center of the earth. There was a stone set in place that was called the navel of the earth. Delphi had the Delphic oracle, which belonged to the Earth goddess, and was supposedly guarded by a serpent, Python. (Keep the serpent Python image in view.)

At the Delphi temple they practiced a pagan glossolalia. It was this influence of the pagan glossolalia that was strongly felt not only in Corinth, but also in the Grecian world. (You can study this in most encyclopedias.)

The way the oracle worked was that a male prophet at the temple would receive a question from an inquirer. The question could be personal, or about government affairs, or whatever.

The inquirer would be brought into the presence of a young woman priestess of Apollo who was said to have a "pythonic spirit." Paul encountered one of these priestesses at Philippi. (Cf. Acts 16:16)

The young woman would fall into a state of frenzied ecstasy, and would begin to speak in tongues that were unintelligible. The attending priest would then interpret the language for the inquirer's benefit.

(Now for the benefit of those who do, or do not believe in speaking in tongues, that is not the issue at stake. And I don't want this to be made an issue in discussing this Bible study. Just say with the facts as you know them.)

It is important to understand that Paul never took away from there being a gifting from God concerning speaking in other languages. But people who had been to the Delphic priest were beginning to show up in the congregation, and very likely, even some of the priests and priestesses were entering. The Christians would have been considered a threat to the Delphic oracle. Plus the fact that the Corinthian believers would have felt like they were in competition with the Delphic oracles. This is likely why there was such a strong stress on speaking in tongues in this group. You don't find it in the other churches. Paul did his best to bring a balance."

[url=http://www.christianchallenge.org/hebraic-foundations/HF011.html]Paul & The Oracles of Delphi - Christian Challenge[/url]

philologos said

This is sheer speculation and has no basis in the records.

It's not "sheer speculation", it's a very rational, and logical, inference.

The Sybils (Female Oracles, or Priestesses) allowed themselves to be possessed by Apollo (remember Apollyon [Abaddon/Destroyer], king of the locusts with the hair of women from REV 9).

This happened at Delphi.

Delphi was on the Corinthian Gulf right next door to Corinth.

The only letter that mentions anything about glossolalia is to the Corinthians - in which Paul likens it to speaking like "barbarians"... or like a madman.

At the end of Chapter 14, I COR, Paul ends off on the subject of glossolalia: "Let your women keep silence in the churches..." As in [b]your[/b] Priestesses of Apollo, not godly women like Priscilla, etc...

Paul was speaking to the Corinthians specifically, not to Christians generally, about tongues. He wasn't encouraging people everywhere to speak unintelligble gibberish, he patiently compomised some of their "bad habits", like glossolalia, eating foods sacrificed to idols, etc, to win them to the cause of Christ.

Edit: Beside all this, the glossolalia (unintelligable gibberish) of which Paul speaks has nothing in common with the tongues spoken of in Acts where the speakers are understood in various foreign languages.

Dear Brother Cool

"Tongues" has been discussed a lot here, even since I joined SI this year, but you deserve an answer all the same.

I can understand your feeling the whole thing was wierd, and you were put off. I was scared of this kind of thing too - the Lord had to actually ASK me if I was willling to speak in tongues if HE wanted me to. My first reaction was "no fear!"

I wonder too if what you heard [i]was[/i] genuine tongues - the real gift of the Holy Spirit - or just (subconsciously) made up mumbo jumbo? In which case no wonder you were put off!

Of course there are those on SI who believe that this gift was for the early years of the Church only, or that all of it is demonic these days. Or that the only genuine use is to speak in a known language. If you have only ever heard countrefeit, or made-up tongues, I suppose it is a reasonable conclusion. Some "tongues" really IS gibberish.

But not all!

Some also make a distinction between what happened on the Day of Pentecost and these days. There are indeed "divers kinds of tongues". as the KJV puts it, and this can be confusing.

What we need to know about is the genuine gift, not the merely human attempt to imitate it, or worse still the demonic gift, which indeed the Delphi priestesses exercised.

That is why Paul was very careful to point out the difference between the pagan, (demonic) gift and the genuine one from the Holy Spirit.

1Corinthians 12:1-3 says:
[i][color=000066]Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: 2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that [u]no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit[/u].[/color][/i]

Paul is warning the believers and showing them how to discern between the genuine and the demonic. "Jesus is Lord" isn't simply sayong those words, a demon can say that in a mocking way, but to say "Lord Jesus!" and mean it with all your heart can't be easily counterfeited.

Bro Corey.... I've never done this before, but it may help to demonstrate that tongues isn't gibberish: Here are some words, transliterated as well as I can. The pace, expression, intonation and inflection can't be reproduced in written words, but there are distinct words, sentences etc:

Keila mashander hamaheesta pinda palapoosa. Shesi hama hasten, haiamalata!

kesi kesi malida. Shama shamalaroda. peiashura keiahama.

Seesi mahita, sesi bakheah, papasi papa mahata.

Oh jaratirama, haimali! pepara emashane.

I can't go on, it has got me into praying in earnest, and it was impossible to write the words down for a few minutes! What is written above is part of a prayer, a passionate pleading with the Lord, that's all I know. The way the words came made that obvious. It was not made up; although there was the conscious decision to speak of course - it wasn't forced from me.

What it means is none of my business unless He wants to show it - I was talking to Him, not myself! But He gave the words so He will answer!

And probably someone, somewhere in the world would have understoood exactly what was being said!

A mystery indeed!

...I hope no-one felt I was showing off in writing these words. I have never done it before, and at one stage it would have been a sort of showing off, to prove myself instead of glorify Him. But this time it seemed right to share this, which is to some of us an ordinary (if slightly odd!) part of the Christian life. It also humbles our intellect because we don't have a clue what is being said, and our own thoughts can't interfere with the pure word spoken, as can happen with prophecy!

I haven't a clue what those words meant, and said under the breath and fast might sound like "lalala", but I do know they are of God.

Blessings

Jeannette

lovegrace said

Interesting how you try to tie in the Pentacostal groups with the abominations in the book of Revelation. Very edifying.

How astute.

Honestly, to me. It doesn't matter what any pagan tradition did, or taught. I preach the Word of God, not some 'by-product' of a pagan tradition.

Peter, Paul, and Jesus even spoke in tongues or 'glossolalia'. If they did, why can't we?

Where's your evidence that Jesus, Peter, or Paul spoke in unintelligble gibberish? Scripture please.

Stop trying to find things wrong, in bizarre ways. Just preach the Word of God. Yes, it's okay to look into history, but honestly, you just took a pagan 'historical' thing and spoke against the WORD OF GOD. Watch yourself buddy. Don't call something that is Holy in the sight of God and call it unholy. Or visa versa.

I see. No history, no science, no logic. Just scripture. Fine.

"And they had a king over them, which is the [b]angel[/b] of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon." (REV 9:11)

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of [b]angels[/b], and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal." (I COR 13:1)

Who's language are you speaking? Who are you speaking to?

Corey said: Where's your evidence that Jesus, Peter, or Paul spoke in unintelligble gibberish? Scripture please.

So [i]of course[/i] there's no evidence that they spoke gibberish - it wasn't gibberish but the real thing!

Although, I should think Jesus had no need of even the genuine gift as such, as His communion with the Father was so perfect and complete, and you are right there, there is no record that He ever did!

But Peter and Paul certainly did. And the fact that on the Day of Pentecost the languages happened to be known is beside the point. there's no scriptural evidence that those who exercised this gift always spoke in languages recognised by those present - rather the opposite.

Otherwise why should Paul teach so much in 1Corinthians about the right use of speaking in an [i][u]unknown[/u][/i] tongue? If the tongue happened to be in an unknown language he insisted in order in its use - especially interpretation if it was needed. for example, if there were unbelievers present, or those like Bro. Cool who were new to these things, or if it happened to be prophecy - a word the church needed to hear.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue any more, you are obviously determined to deny the genuine gift, and force Scripture to justify it.

Love you anyway!

In Him

Jeannette

CoolCap said:where people get the idea that speaking in tongues is all this "lalalala, yayayaya,babababa"

This person would stand up in your congregation and speak in a KNOWN tongue, no one can understand him save the person who does. However, YOU don't know if anyone does, wouldn't you feel wierd?

Think about it, picture yourself sitting next to this guy who has this gift. Right in the middle of the service, he stands up and gives a message in a KNOWN tongue, wouldn't you feel embarressed??

Consider this too, while he is speaking in a KNOWN tongue, you have no idea what dialect he is speaking, therefore to you it is gibberish, therefore in your mind you judge this man as a madman.

Dohzman,

"...every man heard them speak in his own language." (ACTS 2:6)

How is this the same glossolalia spoken of in Corinthians?

G1100
γλῶσσα
glōssa
gloce'-sah
Of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication a language (specifically one naturally unacquired): - tongue.

Act 2:4 And2532 they were all537 filled4130 with the Holy40 Ghost,4151 and2532 began756 to speak2980 with other2087 [b]tongues,1100[/b] as2531 the3588 Spirit4151 gave1325 them846 utterance.669

Corey, Wikipedia or a Greek Lexicon is the choice.

Brother roman on page 1 here explained 'why' "...every man heard them speak in his own language." in a very clear way.

They spake with the tongues of angels, as was eluded to earlier.

That is the mystery about it. They all spake whatever words they were speaking yet every one there heard their own language. Even if just one of them had spoken in tongues, all of these foreigners would still have heard his words/tongue in his own language.
NOT because they were speaking that many different KNOWN languages, but they were "hearing" their own.

I saw this happen in the transverse ... as also was a question earlier ... "which 'type' angel tongue ?"

We invited a strange woman to a lunch we were having after Church at a very Godly couple's home.
There were a few Christian families present, including teens & children.
We were all praying over our meal, when suddenly this woman began to speak in "a tongue".
All of us adults heard her plainly cursing in English, in between a few undiscernible words, but all that the children and teens heard were her "tongues". We stopped the prayer straight way. God shut the ears of the young, but at least 7 adults heard the exact same curse words in English. The Lord allowed this so that we would learn something and learn that this woman needed deliverance from something and shouldn't be taken at face value as a Christian that we thought she was.

So yes, there are 'counterfeits' of every spiritual gift out there.

Why would the devil 'counterfeit' anything ?
He wouldn't bother to counterfeit a $3.00 bill, would he ?

It is given as a prayer & praise language and not just as a gift to use at Church.

Paul also said, that he "prayed in the Spirit and with understanding", so Christians can ask the Lord for the interpretation themselves when praying or praising when alone.

I'd tread lightly with calling something "of the devil" that very many true Christians have experienced. You've set yourself up as 'Judge' over millions of Godly Christians.

We call it our prayer language.
Thanking God for that expression of Rom 8:26,27.

crossbearer said

I am not an authority on the Bible and have really prayed a lot about the gift of tongues. I wanted more understanding on the subject. I was raised to believe in it, but no one i knew ever practiced it. When i continued to seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit, suddenly one day i found myself speaking in other tongues and i was not seeking this gift. No one was there to push me into it. It just started happening. i questioned it and as i searched the scriptures. one thing really caught my attention. I read in Acts about the day of Pentecost and what took place and they spoke in other languages that others can hear in their native tongue then as i read on i discovered that Peter was led to Cornelius's house and after ministering the Word of God they were filled with the Holy Spirit and was evidenced by some of them speaking in tongues. I am assuming everyone in the home of Cornelius was of the same language. (family and friends) It was not a popular thing for Cornelius to invite Peter into his home. What was the need of tongues here among people of possibly the same language? This satisfied my questions and i no longer question the times i do pray in tongues. I trust the Lord in what ever i say and even ask Him for understanding and i have learned so much from this. I hope this may have been some help on this subject.

I especially liked your point about the likelihood everyone in Cornelius' household spoke the same language (although this may not have been true by their mother tongues, I guess there would have been [i]one[/i] common language amongst them, before the Holy Spirit gave them tongues). 8-)