After Jacob got his new name, Israel, scripture uses both names for him.
Is this merely Hebrew poetic style, or is there spiritual meaning embedded in the occasional choice by the writer, to choose one or the other?
For instance:
Isaiah 48:12 (Young)
Hearken to me, O Jacob, and Israel, My called one ...
Exodus 32:13
Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel ...
Good topic! Scripture has more to say about Jacob than Abraham and Issac. I believe Jacob is God's call to all who hunger and thirst to come and take hold of God and be changed. Kinda simplistic I know, and without going into much detail I believe that that will be enough to get the ball rollin on that subject.
I heard Jimmy Swaggart say once, that when Jacob was weak he was referred to as Israel, when he was strong(in himself) he was referred to as Jacob.
Greetings in Jesus Name by whose Blood we are Reconciled to God. AMEN
sis D
It is interesting that Jacob's name would be changed to Israel. If you remember, Jacob means 'supplanter" or "he grasps the heel" speaking to his conniving nature. Even when Jacob deal with God, he was in it at first for what he could get. He told God that He would only be his God if God brought him back safely into his land with increase in wealth. Even with all Jacob had gained he didn't fully yield to God until he wrestled with him and was left crippled. Thereafter Jacob was no longer as the conniver he was but now had influence with God and with men hence the name Israel. it speaks to me of a coming to the end of one's self whereat one encounters God and after such an encounter, one can't be the same. Jacob used no cane to walk, Israel was a cripple and walked with it the rest of his life. If we encounter God, the result should be very evident to all around us. We are to lean on Him for everything (live on every word which proceeds from His mouth), if we are to have influence with Him and thus with men, we need to be brought to the end of ourselves like what happened to Jacob.
i think in some instances when Israel is called Jacob, it speaks to the same self-reliant and conniving spirit which was on Jacob before he got dealt with. Jacob strikes me as the kind of guy you wouldn't want to mess with, he was too quiet and you never knew what he was thinking or what he wanted to do. Then the use of both names in the same verse or situation to me speaks of the remnant which is Israel as being one with Jacob as God speaks to them His word. it brings home to me how those of us who are stronger in the Faith or more mature are not separate from the babes in Christ and we are to bear with them because He bore with us and does so still. It speaks of the unity of the body whether carnal or spiritual that we are yet one and ought not separate ourselves or think more of ourselves than we ought to and thus fall into pride.
Grace and Peace be yours in Jesus Name
Thanks for that blessed response, Bro Ironman!
IRONMAN wrote:
Greetings in Jesus Name by whose Blood we are Reconciled to God. AMENsis D
It is interesting that Jacob's name would be changed to Israel. If you remember, Jacob means 'supplanter" or "he grasps the heel" speaking to his conniving nature. Even when Jacob deal with God, he was in it at first for what he could get. He told God that He would only be his God if God brought him back safely into his land with increase in wealth. Even with all Jacob had gained he didn't fully yield to God until he wrestled with him and was left crippled. Thereafter Jacob was no longer as the conniver he was but now had influence with God and with men hence the name Israel. it speaks to me of a coming to the end of one's self whereat one encounters God and after such an encounter, one can't be the same. Jacob used no cane to walk, Israel was a cripple and walked with it the rest of his life. If we encounter God, the result should be very evident to all around us. We are to lean on Him for everything (live on every word which proceeds from His mouth), if we are to have influence with Him and thus with men, we need to be brought to the end of ourselves like what happened to Jacob.i think in some instances when Israel is called Jacob, it speaks to the same self-reliant and conniving spirit which was on Jacob before he got dealt with. Jacob strikes me as the kind of guy you wouldn't want to mess with, he was too quiet and you never knew what he was thinking or what he wanted to do. Then the use of both names in the same verse or situation to me speaks of the remnant which is Israel as being one with Jacob as God speaks to them His word. it brings home to me how those of us who are stronger in the Faith or more mature are not separate from the babes in Christ and we are to bear with them because He bore with us and does so still. It speaks of the unity of the body whether carnal or spiritual that we are yet one and ought not separate ourselves or think more of ourselves than we ought to and thus fall into pride.
Grace and Peace be yours in Jesus Name
Yes, we all "wrestle" at times, but as the Lord touches us at the source of our merely human strength so we begin to have "power with God".
I think it was Watchman Nee who pointed out the difference in the twice Jacob was asked who he was. The first time he was busy deceiving his father so he could get the firstborn's blessing. He said, "I'm Esau". But when the Lord asked him his name at Jabbok, where He wrestled with him, Jacob said, "I'm Jacob".
But, AS SOON AS HE ADMITTED WHO HE REALLY WAS, the Lord said, "No you're not - you have a new name now!
As soon as we confess that we are twisted, broken, deceiving and being deceived, the Lord changes us.
Glory be to Him!
Revelation 2:17
"To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone [u]a new name written
Blessings
Jeannette
sis Jeannette
Greetings in Jesus Name by whose Blood we are reconciled to the Father. AMEN.
bless God for the fellowship we have here because so much is made clear to us through one another. through you God has brought out another dimension of Jacob. i am convinced that each verse of scripture being of God is like Him in that it is of infinite depth, like layers on a cake with lots of layers :smart: :-P
even to confess our shortcomings and sinful nature, is a Grace extended to us by God out of His own Mercy, seeing as He wanted to show both Wrath and Mercy HE created vessels for each display.
you know it is interesting that you mention that reward in the Revelation, it seems to me that we are not limited to one reward upon overcoming, which is more a daily thing (dying to self daily)for which we receive Grace upon Grace.
i guess i'll take the stone with a new name, the manna, crown of life, to sit with Him in His throne... :-D
to receive a new name is to be completely transformed in Character and stepping into the fullness of what and who one is in God.One's name tends to speak to his/her character. i believe our names are prophetic in this manner. all of a sudden (and God showed me this a while ago) when i list my 3 names, they spell out something very cool which i had not seen before. i didn't like my names much but i see now why God had me so named and i'm blown away by that. i guess even stepping into the fullness of what one's current name means is pretty cool, but how much more when we receive the new ones!
whoa, God is good!
Grace and Peace be yours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.
Thank you all who have answered so far.
One of the ways I would distinguish between Jacob and Israel, would be to separate them into the man of flesh and the man of faith. (I think I have more to say about Jacob than Israel, in this post.)
Just as I was coming to write, having read all the responses one after another, I also realised that Jacob was separated from his parents, brother and home, by sins; but by the time he sets off to return, it is for reconciliation.
But, not only he has changed and been changed, [i]so has his brother
The other thing I'd say about Jacob, is he did have some [u]good
He had understood something about the importance of keeping his word, perhaps because he had an eye on God holding him to the promise he had made Him at Bethel.
Perhaps also, this was a direct result of his merciless bargaining with Esau over the birthright. We know he was frightened enough to have run away, but did he feel guilty? I'm not sure, although he knew Esau had good reason to be [i]very
However, he must have been comforted by the vision / dream he had on the night he ran away. Surely this was something special from God to him. The fact is, he had [i]got[u]wanted[i]liked
Perhaps God likes [i]us
Then, Jacob [i]loved
However, the word says of Leah that she had 'soft eyes' - which may be a commentary on [i]her
Or perhaps, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
But it was not until Rachel associated her barrenness with her unbelief, that she cried out [i]to God
I think it is interesting how God honoured Jacob's love for Rachel, by making her sons eminent in the rest of Israel's story. In this, He makes a strong case for the love which [i]may[i]for[i]setting out
I see this as a reference to the love of Christ for [i]all
In our case, it is a good thing that God thinks we're beautiful, [i]despite our hearts
Greg posted the whole in the Articles and Sermons forum. It helps to move us towards who 'Israel' is, or what 'Israel' should mean - to us - because that's what it means to God (of course).
by Zac Poonen - Jacob - A Broken Man (last paragraph)
'Many centuries later, when a descendant of Jacob, Nathaniel, met Jesus, the Lord said of Him, "Here is a true Israel in whom there is no Jacob (no guile)" (John 1:47)!! He then reminded Nathaniel of the ladder that Jacob had seen at Bethel and told him that he too was an "Israel" - not because Nathaniel was perfect but because there was no guile or deception in him. It says here that Jacob named that place "Peniel" for he had finally seen the face of God. At Bethel, he had been taken up with the house of God. You may have been in the house of God for many years and yet you may not have seen the face of God. Then you need a second encounter with God - where you see His face. Jacob says in excitement, "Now I see Your face O God and my life is preserved." '
Brother Ironman wrote:
i guess i'll take the stone with a new name, the manna, crown of life, to sit with Him in His throne...
Don't forget the new song...the joy of the Lord is our strength....
God Bless
Jeff
Sister Lynn wrote:
But, not only he has changed and been changed, so has his brother..
This Scripture comes to mind...
Prov. 16:7 \tWhen a man’s ways please the LORD,
\tHe makes even his enemies to be at peace with him.
In Christ
jeff
bro Jeff
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Transformed into His Image. AMEN.
rookie wrote:
Brother Ironman wrote:i guess i'll take the stone with a new name, the manna, crown of life, to sit with Him in His throne...
Don't forget the new song...the joy of the Lord is our strength....
God Bless
Jeff
AMEN, AMEN and AMEN!!!
Greetings Dear saints in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Justified. AMEN.
i was thinking on this and God ministered this to me yesterday.
i was reading the Psalms yesterday and found this in Psalm 46 and vs 11[b]11 The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.
At this point our Lord imparted something to me which i had not known before for which i give Him, Praise, Glory, Honour and Adoration. God is oft referred to as the God of Jacob. When He is referred to as God of Israel is speaks of the nation but when He is called the God of Jacob it speaks of a personal God because the nation Israel is rarely referred to as Jacob, except perhaps when the word speaks of the time of Jacob’s Trouble or a situation in which Israel is in trouble and is being judged. All the same, our Lord did give me something which was most comforting. If we remember how Jacob was as a man we should have much hope that our God is referred to as the God of Jacob. He was his God before Jacob became Israel even though Jacob made some conditions which had to be met before he would make God his God, see when Jacob had to flee to Laban. Jacob was a conniver and a man who was very able and trusted in his own ability. At Peniel, that would change and he would be a different man altogether thereafter.
Blessed be the God of Jacob indeed because He was Jacob’s God from before the setting of the foundations of the earth! Jacob had been chosen at this time, elected by God by Grace and not attained anything from God by the work of his hand. We are like Jacob when God comes to us, relying on ourselves and in need of being broken and yet He is our God yet, indeed He was our God from before the setting of the foundations of the earth. He was our God while we were yet in sin and didn’t know Him because we were Elected by His Grace and He died for us while we were yet sinners. What a blessed thing that is! Our Salvation is centred on Him and not what we can do! Blessed be God indeed for being the God of Jacob before he became Israel because without that Love by which God so did, there would have been no hope for Jacob to become Israel at all! If God did not Love us first, we would have no hope of salvation at all!
Blessed indeed be the God of Jacob forever and ever. AMEN.
Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.
There is an interesting insight into the time that Israel got his new name in Hosea. This is Youngs Literal Version.
[color=0000FF]In the womb he took his brother by the heel, And by his strength he was a prince with God, Yea, he is a prince unto the Messenger, And he overcometh [by] weeping, And he maketh supplication to Him, At Bethel He doth find him, And there He doth speak with us, (Hosea 12:3-4 YNG)[/color]
Apparently he did not overcome because he wore out God, but because he finally came to the place of weeping.
hey bro Ron
Greetings in Jesus' Name by whose Blood we are grafted into Israel. AMEN.
thanks for what God had you share there. GOd made Jacob cry uncle and brought him to the end of himself, we could say God wore Jacob out!
Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.
Re: The God of Jacob
Dear Brother Farai, (IRONMAN),
Thank you for sharing this revelation in such fulness with us all. I am very blessed that this mediation brought forth such fruit for you.
I had known this about our early relationship with God but had never thought of Jacob as a great example of those beginnings:
Amen! Jacob was completely open with God about his predicament, and God honoured him, as he honoured God the best way he knew how.Blessed be God indeed for being the God of Jacob before he became Israel because without that Love by which God so did, there would have been no hope for Jacob to become Israel at all!
philologos quoted Young's, Hosea 12
Immediately this reminded me of Hebrews 12:17And he overcometh[i]by[/i] weeping,
So... Jacob found 'a place of reformation'?
hey sis Dorcas
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved. AMEN.
indeed it seems to me that Jacob is something of a prefiguring of the us being saved by Grace specifically out of our condition and in spite of it. i think it was Chuck Missler who quipped "if God could Save Jacob, He can Save anybody!"
mmm this has me thinking, i am a Mystic wanting to know the Deep things of God so what could we glean from God's Title as God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob...what could we learn from the lives of these men in terms of the Character of God and His Nature. from Jacob we could say He is more than Merciful and requires a death of oneself, what about Abraham and Isaac?
Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN
EDIT bro Ron, you did a series on abraham so i suppose that would be a good place to start about Abraham :-P
Hi IRONMAN,
Here is another link to a few thoughts by Zac Poonen: Four Reasons Why God Blessed Jacob.
Well, Abrahammmm this has me thinking, i am a Mystic wanting to know the Deep things of God so what could we glean from God's Title as God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob...what could we learn from the lives of these men in terms of the Character of God and His Nature. from Jacob we could say He is more than Merciful and requires a death of oneself, what about Abraham and Isaac?
If you would like, please post your thoughts in this thread as you receive them. We will get to [i]Israel
This discussion is locked.
