Because People are Saved It Must Be OK

I have recently run into the issue where a person will justify their reason for doing something because people are truly saved through a particular means. Even if the way they are doing it is not scripturally sound the action becomes "ok" because people are able to come to salvation.

For instance, it is ok to preach "come to Jesus so you wont go to hell" type of sermons (humanistic) because some individuals have come to saving faith. I have also heard, its ok to preach "relevant" and "seeker sensitive" because God can use that to save some individuals aswell.

I do not doubt that true conversion can come out of this type of preaching because I have some dear friends that have testimonies that are associated to similar alter calls.

Yet, I do not agree with this mentality but I am not sure how to lovingly respond to it.

:-?
Cesar

Just bumping this to the front page. I noticed there were no replies even though this is a good suject to discuss. I'd have to say that I have no comment as of yet because I've never had to discuss this with someone. Therefore I lack the ability to make a comment out of experience. And I think that those are always the best comments!
Anyway, think about this subject. I too would like to know what one should say when dealing with these kinds of arguments.

The "ends justify means" argument... Well, I do not think that we should support it, but still recognize that God can work however he wishes. He has used many strange servants and means to talk to those whom he wished. Think about Balaam's donkey, the prophets, John the Baptist, etc...but this does not mean that we should go on supporting the preaching you talked about. I'm pretty sure there are many more who are led astray from it than those who come to a relationship with the Father from it.
So, praise God for how he draws people to himself, but I don't think we should support ministries that are against the scriptures.

Well, if you look at that argument, it is rather humanistic in it's roots: let's do whatever we can to get poor mankind saved so he can go to heaven.

One might say, "Hey, but what if the motive is for God's glory?" It is not based off the glory of God, for if it were, it would seek to use God's chosen and true Gospel, not a watered down one.

It is possible to be sincerely wrong, my brethren. Let's watch out for that.

Another thought... a staggering 85-95% of "converts" from that kind of preaching go back to their old way of living after, i think it was, only 8 months.

Kinda interesting, ya know?

Just my thoughts...

-nathan

PS, hey Jeff (running2win), i'm looking forward to seeing you at the conference! i missed you when your brothers (Spence and Mike) came to visit a few months ago...

This is a very important topic because many are falling for into the trap of man initiated, man developed schemes to bring people to Christ.

Some are saying that if people get saved then its ok. Yet we should remember that Jesus said many will have done wonderful works in His name but will not be allowed into the Kingdom. Such is the severity of this topic. The issue at the great leveler of all humanity which is the Judgment seat of Christ will not be the effecacy of our evangelistic efforts, but did we do what we did according to the voice from heaven.

Much of the church are adopting many forms of evangelistic techniques. It attempting to attrack the world by that which the world enjoys. Lights, excitement, fast empty talking. Many in the world will come to Christendom by these methods. Yet they will not come to Christ whose invitation to the world will always be come and die.

What ministry can simply present Christ and Him crucified without making the presentation amenable and palatble to the world. If our message alone can not when the lost then why are we even attempting to win the lost.

The reason why we feel as though we need to use all kinds of methods to attrack the world to "Accept" Jesus is God is not with these ministries as He was with the early church. It is painful to consider such a thing, yet if we dont wrestle with this idea then we will be doomed to developing new schemes to doop the lost into "Accepting" Jesus. Any many will come because of these neat methods yet I believe many who come to Christendom because of these measures will be among those of whom the bible sais "will fall away".

We are forewarned by the Lord that there is indeed a great falling away coming. The question we should be asking ourselves is what kind of believers will be falling away. I submit that the christians who came to christendom because of the cosmetics and hamburger helper that was mixed into the gospel they heard will be among that terrible number.

God help us to reclaim the Glory that was with Jesus and the early church so we wont have to use methods but our very words will be like arrows and swords the cut the hears of the people open.

May we meet on the Sea of Glass one day.
Grac, Grace to you

elanham

it is ok to preach "come to Jesus so you wont go to hell" type of sermons (humanistic) because some individuals have come to saving faith.

You mean some preachers actually still preach about hell and the fire that awaits unrepentant sinners? When I was a child all evangelistic services included this type of preaching and the buildings were filled to the gills. The evangelists preached with conviction and passion; unlike many modern preachers. Since they abandoned this approach and preached how loving God is instead, the numbers have dropped off...hard to get people interested in the things of God.

I am writing from my perspective of having lived on this planet for 60 years.

More could be said, but I must run....

ginnyrose

When a person gets saved from the destruction of hell, it's ALWAYS a good thing! Amen!

That doesn't mean the methods one used to "get them saved" is okay when it's not according to God's standards.

I believe it's the Holy Spirit's work in a person's heart. The person's ears are opened to what is needed for them to come to salvation.

Because God is omnipotent and the Holy Spirit works conviction in the heart of man, any person can be saved, even if they're saved at any WOF conference. Rest assured that if those preachers take that glory for themselves, oh, they will be judged for it. The glory isn't for the preacher who is preaching....it's for the Lord God only.

What is our job in a situation like this? What's the responsibility of the church? Isn't it to build up our fellow Christians in the Truth?

I would say the end definitely does not justify the means, and if a person is saved it is our responsibility to show them where the truth is at. We also need to trust God.

At the point I'm at in my Christian walk...this just makes sense.

I pray as I grow in Him, He shows me more and more of the Truth.
:-)
I am hungry for the Truth.

Praise God for anyone who gets truly saved... but thats the work of the Holy Spirit in spite of the means by which they got saved, not because of it.

Well said, Krispy.
One thing that I've noticed is that If someone is honestly and sincerely searching for the truth God is faithful to lead them to Him through whatever means are available in their circumstance. And another thing I've noticed is that if they stay honest and sincere God will lead them to more and more truth as they go. Therefore we can clearly see that it is the work of the Holy Spirit in cases where someone truly gets saved under teaching such as comes out of "ministries" like WOF. Thank you for the comments everyone, I'm really gleaning from this thread.

Reminds me of a wonderful sermon by Paris Reidhead entitled [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=282]Ten Shekels and a shirt[/url]

Humanism is everywhere and it is doing great damage to Christianity. Quote from Ten Shekels and a shirt:

I’m afraid that it’s become so subtle that it goes everywhere. What is it? In essence it’s this! That this philosophical postulate that the end of all being is the happiness of man, has been sort of covered over with evangelical terms and Biblical doctrine until God reigns in heaven for the happiness of man, Jesus Christ was incarnate for the happiness of man, all the angels exist in the…..Everything is for the happiness of man! And I submit to you that this is Unchristian! Isn’t man happy? Didn’t God intend to make man happy? Yes. But as a by-product, and not a prime-product.

I do thank you all for your comments and especially Jeff for bumping this post for me.

I have done some research on the subject and here are some of my thoughts on some scripture that had challenged me.

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Phil 1:15-18 (NIV)
15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
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Some would consider this Paul justifying the end even though it is being preached by incorrect means but I do not think so. Paul here is trying to emphasize the fact that we should rejoice that Christ is preached period. The truth of Christ's life, death, and resurrection does not change, and that foundational truth is what allows the Holy Spirit to work on a sinner. The improper way it is being done is not being encouraged at all.

Paul is dealing with this exact false mentality Romans 3:5-8
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5But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" 8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.
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:-D
Cesar