RedeemedgurL
Jun 22, 2007
IS THERE SUCH A PERSON CALLED A CARNAL CHRISTIAN?
IS THERE SUCH A PERSON CALLED A CARNAL CHRISTIAN?
Backsliding sinner is what I'd call that.
Charles Finney had an article against the whole "carnal Christian" or "sinning saint" view. The article is called "The Carnal Christian" I believe.
The bible has a different term other then "sinning saint" and that term is hypocrite and backslider.
According to Scripture...one is a babe in Christ.
1Cor. 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;
Heb. 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Babes in Christ have not grown strong in the word of God.
Listen to John who writes about different levels of maturity...
12 I write to you, little children,
\t\tBecause your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13 I write to you, fathers,
\t\tBecause you have known Him who is from the beginning.
\t\tI write to you, young men,
\t\tBecause you have overcome the wicked one.
\t\tI write to you, little children,
\t\tBecause you have known the Father.
14 I have written to you, fathers,
\t\tBecause you have known Him who is from the beginning.
\t\tI have written to you, young men,
\t\tBecause you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
\t\tAnd you have overcome the wicked one.
Look to the difference between the 'little children," "young men," and "fathers."
Paul writes of the Corinthians...
1Cor. 4:14 I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you. 15 For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
He calls them "beloved children" whom he is warning, that there are few fathers among them.
In Christ
jeff
Lazarus wrote:
Charles Finney had an article against the whole "carnal Christian" or "sinning saint" view. The article is called "The Carnal Christian" I believe.
I see it differently...not necessarily a saint who is sinning, but a saint who is immature...
What do you think brother Lazarus?
In Christ
Jeff
Here are the qualifications for a backslider or hypocrite, as I see it:
1. They have sin in their life
2. They are aware or know that sin is in their life
3. They are unwilling to get that sin out of their life
Such a person cannot be considered a "sinning saint" or a "carnal Christian" because they are no Saint at all, no Christian at all!
Cast all your care upon Jesus, look full in His face.
(Ps.37:5 Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.)
(Ps.55:22 Cast thy burden upon the Lord, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.)
(Prov.16:3 Commit thy works unto the Lord, and thy thoughts shall be established.)
(Jer.17:7-8
7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is.
8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.)
(Matt.6:26-34
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.)
(Lk.12:22-32
22 And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?
25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.)
(Php.4:6-7
6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.)
(Heb.13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.)
(1Pet.5:6-7
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.)
Eddie
I found a great article on this exact topic by Ernest Reisinger. If you had listened to a sermon by Paul Washer you might of been introduced to this topic of the "carnal christian". I beilieve that this article might of been influential in Washers understanding of this topic. I know that Reisinger's other writings had a profound effect on Washers understanding of evangelism.
My purpose in this booklet is to argue that this classification is wrong and to set out the positive, historic, and biblical answer to this 'carnal Christian' teaching. The argument from Church history is not unimportant, for it is a fact that less than two-hundred years ago this teaching was unknown in the churches of North America, but I am concerned to rest my case on an honest statement of the teaching of the Bible. I have written after study, private meditation and prayer, and after using many of the old respected commentaries of another day, but my appeal is to the Word of God and it is in the light of that authority that I ask the reader to consider all that follows.
Redeemedgurl, When we get to heaven, we will be issued crowns. Rewards for souls we brought with us etc.
some will have no crowns because they did nothing to advance Gods kingdom.
also "there are some saved as through fire"
"They are saved but their works are burned up"
Not good!!!
......David
I love what Jesus and Paul had to say about carnal "christians"...
Matthew 7
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
1 Corinthians 6
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Galatians 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature[a]will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
Is there such a thing as a carnal Christian, James says that a friend of the world is an enemy of God, Christians are not Gods enemies. read James 4:4-10
There is a reason Paul, John, yes even the Lord Himself continually warned us "DONT BE DECEIVED"... because of the utter depth and well orchestrated deception that the devil would produce and present us with.
I utter the word of God again... don't be deceived a carnal christian is no christian at all. They must repent and be converted by Gods grace.
In Christ - Jim
How sold out are we? To the degree we're not is our level of carnality.
Maybe everyone here thinks he is so strong and pure "no carnality here".
But if you were snatched up suddenly and found yourself at the very foot of Gods throne. Well, we all would sing a diff. tune.
"Walk in the spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh"
If we are not relying on the Holy Spirit to check our carnality .....
......David
How is it that we have forgotten the FACT that we are justified by faith. Justification is a one time legal declaration that the record against us has been blotted out.
Now sanctification is also a one time act that works out in a progression. The words used for sanctify mean to sat aside, to make holy etc. but are not something man can do. Remember Jesus' words to the Pharisees, "which is greater the gold in the temple, or the temple that sanctifies the gold?" In the same way, which is greater, the man that is sanctified, or the one who sanctifies the man?
Finney has done more damage to the teaching of Justification by faith and has destroyed so many people that he ought not be named within Christian circles any longer. He preached much what the Roman Catholic Church believes in that a man must be sanctified to justified. This of course is a lie, and why the Reformers spoke so boldly against it. But at leas in the Roman system they are told there is a place called purgatory where they can be absloved of their sin, Finney simply leaves people in a works righteousness system without the work of Christ where man himself must get himself to Heaven.
If you believe this, why preach to anyone? there is no hope in this. Men know they are damned, and some of them could care less about it, but if there is no hope of Life, what are you offering people? Christ came to give life, not laws and not morals, but Life or better yet Himself.
In short, those who tell men they must work to earn Heaven have turned away from the righteousness of Christ through grace, and have yoked themselves to the righteousness which comes by works, and brethren no man can be justified by his works because even the good ones are tainted with sin.
“1 ¶ And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 [b]For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?”
Recently God broke my heart over this area of carnality. Through studying on the Spirit-filled life I learned the definition of a carnal believer and a Spirit-filled believer. The Spirit-filled believer is controlled by the Spirit of God. The carnal believer is ‘man-centered’. Every one and thing exists for the benefit of me. I self-righteously applied this definition of carnality to another situation amongst Christians where there had been some envying, strife, and division. But later God nailed me with carnality in my life where I had been focused on me and what I wanted. Oh, I wept at the pride that was in my heart! Even in spiritual matters I can so easily be carnal in that [i]I am right and my view is the right one.
Those were my thoughts when I read this thread and I felt lead to share. Oh that we would all be completely surrendered to God and controlled by the Holy Spirit every minute of every day!!
Blessings,
Joy
In short, those who tell men they must work to earn Heaven have turned away from the righteousness of Christ through grace, and have yoked themselves to the righteousness which comes by works, and brethren no man can be justified by his works because even the good ones are tainted with sin.
You are creating a false picture of what the scripture says. Becareful that you dont indict Paul, James and the Lord Himself with your over generalized comment.
A man is not justified by faith alone... James 2:24
In Christ - Jim
A man is not justified by faith alone... James 2:24
Yes, true justification produces works. But this passage is also speaking to the Jewish people James was addressing, and the phrase, "thou believest that there is one God" literally is, "you believe that God is one" Now remember the OT, where it said,"hear oh Israel the Lord our God is one"
James is using this to get their attention that their justification was not from the fact that they were Jews, or because they believed God is one. Thus he goes on, "your faith must have some evidence other than that to be true faith."
Maybe everyone here thinks he is so strong and pure "no carnality here".
But if you were snatched up suddenly and found yourself at the very foot of Gods throne. Well, we all would sing a diff. tune.
Excellent statement David. One thing I've noticed in the Bible is that in almost every account of someone having a vision of God or our Glorified Lord the person (e.i. John, Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc.) falls on their face "as dead". Isaiah cried "Woe is me! I am undone for I am a man of unclean lips!" Edward Payson was a man totally overcome by the sense of his exceeding sinfullness even though he was probably the holiest american of the 19th century. We all will have a level of carnality until we go to be with God for eternity. Ah, but that doesn't mean we just accept it, but rather that we should strive all the more to be spiritual and totally free from our carnal nature.
"your faith must have some evidence other than that to be true faith."
Amen lamb.. now we're on the same page. Paul also clearly lays out works of the flesh, which when continued in will disqaulify your profession of faith. (1 Cor 6:9-10)
Funny that I am standing for holiness in one thread, but others would view me as speaking against it in another...
So is life at sermon index :oP
In Christ - Jim
Someone actually agrees with me? So this is what that fells like! please nobody bother me . Im basking in the glory of it....
,/.....David
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