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two raptures ???

sermonindex Jun 28, 2007

Not to say I agree with the article since i'm not a scholar, but it's worth looking at. The article has some interesting links within. Let me know what you think.

http://www.secretsofsurvival.com/survival/2007_rapture.html

P
PaulBenson Jun 28, 2007

I read the article; it is a typical pre-trib talk that promises to clearly show evidence in favor of that teaching, but sadly fails to do so. The texts quoted were eithor taken out of context, or used to convey a meaning other than the intent of the writer. The concept of two (or more) 'raptures' is in opposition to the Scriptures. PM me your address and I will send you a FREE copy of "Escape or Passover: What Does The Bible REALLY Teach about The Rapture". This should clear up the matter for anyone who will prayerfully consider this look at what the Scriptures say regarding the Return of the Lord.

sermonindex Jun 28, 2007

Brother Paul, I appreciated your contribution on SI/Greg's thread here ...

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=15483&forum=36&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0


The Only problem is that I can't get "PDF" pages to come up.

I'm not too Techie. Would you or anyone else know what settings in my computer is keeping me from viewing PDF format pages ???

Thank you.
Annie

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JaySaved Jun 28, 2007

Despite what this guy wants us to believe, this is nowhere mentioned in scripture:

The psychology of the rapture seems to be this:

Loving, obedient Christians faithful to God's ways are rewarded by being raptured before the tribulation starts, whereas sinful Christians and unbelievers who have never found Christ, are left to go through the tribulation, at which time they are likely to finally accept God's commands for our lives and finally come to true belief in Christ... or reject God and in the end be condemned to Hell.

Previously he wrote:

In 1 Thessalonians, in the New Testament of the Bible, the apostle Paul talks about the 'end times' and a sudden, unexpected calamity that comes upon the world.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 - "... The Day of the Lord will come just as a thief in the night. When they say "Peace and security," then sudden destruction comes on them..."

Notice the entire context of his selected verses:

1Th 5:2-5 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. (3) While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. (4) But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. (5) For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness.

Paul clearly teaches that Christians will see the coming of the Lord as a thief but they will not be surprised by this like the rest of the world.

Paul is not talking about two raptures; one for the good christians and one for the sinful Christians. Paul is talking about one coming of Jesus as described in 2Th 1:7-10

(7) and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels (8) in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. (9) They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, (10) when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.

There are not two comings of Jesus: one to glorify and one to punish. There is just one coming; to glorify and punish as 2 Thess. clearly teaches.

J
JaySaved Jun 28, 2007

Also, here are some notes I made for myself concerning this subject:
2 Thess. 2:1-2

Before we begin, let us recap what Paul has written to the Thessalonians already: In 1 Thess 4:16-17 Paul states that Christ one day will “come down from heaven”. At this time the “dead in Christ will rise first. After that we which are still alive will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever”. Paul also states in 1 Thess 5:2 this ‘day of the Lord’ will come like a ‘thief in the night’. Christ will return unexpectedly. 1 Thess 5:3 says, “While people are saying, ‘Peace and safety,’ destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.” Paul then says in 1 Thess 5:4, “But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.” This is key…the day of the Lord will come like a thief and unbelievers will be caught off guard and destroyed while believers will NOT be caught off guard, but will be prepared. Paul also says in 2 Thess 1:7-10 that, “the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with blazing fire and his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.” Notice that unbelievers will be destroyed “on the same day” that Jesus comes to be glorified. This is very crucial truth. Christ will return a 2nd Time to punish and glorify, not a 2nd time to glorify and a 3rd time to punish. 1 and 2 Thessalonians clearly does not teach a rapture of the Church before a 7 year tribulation, as we shall soon see in the remainder of this chapter.

1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus (Christ and our being gathered to him...
Paul once again links the two events of Christ coming and Christians gathering to him)

...we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.

(Paul has previously warned the Thessalonians that the ‘day of the Lord’ will come as a ‘thief in the night’ and that they are to be prepared and ready. Apparently, the church began to become anxious due to false teaching that that the ‘day of the Lord’ has come already. Some people today believe that the reason the Thessalonians were unsettled was because they thought that they had missed the rapture. This is not true. If it was true don’t you think Paul would have said, “Concerning this business of missing the rapture, don’t worry because you haven’t”. No, Paul reassures them by saying the ‘Day of the Lord’ has not come yet. He says this because he does not distinguish the rapture of believers occurring at a different time than Jesus coming to punish the wicked, as we have seen so far.)

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PaulBenson Jun 28, 2007

sending you a PM on PDF

sermonindex Jun 28, 2007

Nice.. One of the links in this article also stated a 2007 rapture, I don't know much, but I personally beleive I see here in the present, God preparing an army to march before his return so I very much doubt it.

sermonindex Jun 28, 2007

Why are people trying to work out when the rapture and Christ's return will happen? If God wanted us to know, then we would have been told. 'Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come' (Matthew 24:42). The same applies to the rapture.

People are asking the wrong questions. It's not 'When will Jesus come back? When will the rapture take place?' The questions are 'Am I ready? Will I please God with my life? Will I strive for holiness?'

You can sit around all day trying to work out when the rapture will occur and it will get you spiritually [b]nowhere[/b]. Go out and live your life for Jesus, shine as a bright light for Jesus Christ, shout His name from the rooftops, breathe every breath for Him. Live for Him and keep your eyes fixed upon Him.

Jesus doesn't know when He'll return, neither do we. Neither do we know when the rapture will take place. Just make sure you're ready for it! Stop fooling around with pointless questions about dates and [i]start living for Jesus[/i]!

sermonindex Jun 29, 2007


richardf wrote:
Why are people trying to work out when the rapture and Christ's return will happen?

A good point, I ask myself the same things as I see the body of Christ endlessly sorting through doctrines and theologies. But the main point of my post was to get some feedback concerning the topic of the end times. Believe it or not it is one of the most intriguing subjects to the un-believing. And can be used as a tool to present the gospel. I to be honest wanted some experienced feedback on the article, and to share the stunning links within it.


[url=http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2007/04/cheney_nuclear_terrorist_attac.html]CHICAGO TRIBUNE: Cheney: Nuclear attack on U.S cities 'very real' [/url]

[url=http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-attack10may10,1,436038.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=2&cset=true]L.A. TIMES: Bush orders contingency plans for nuclear attack on U.S. [/url]

[url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2007/06/17/INGMLQEST51.DTL]S.F. CHRONICLE: Time to make plans for 'day after' nuclear blast [/url]

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