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vsuarez Jul 11, 2007

Below is an article reported by Foxnews.com.


Pope: Other Christian Denominations Not True Churches
Tuesday , July 10, 2007

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LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy —

For the second time in a week, Pope Benedict XVI has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church and saying other Christian communities were either defective or not true churches.

Benedict approved a document released Tuesday from his old office, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which repeated church teaching on Catholic relations with other Christians.

While there was nothing doctrinally new in the document, it nevertheless prompted swift criticism from Protestants, Lutherans and other Christian denominations spawned by the 16th century reformation.

"It makes us question the seriousness with which the Roman Catholic Church takes its dialogues with the Reformed family and other families of the church," said the World Alliance of Reformed Churches, which groups 75 million Reformed Christians in 214 churches in 107 countries.

"It makes us question whether we are indeed praying together for Christian unity," the alliance said in a letter to the Vatican's key ecumenical official, Cardinal Walter Kasper, charging that the document took ecumenical dialogue back to the pre-Vatican II era.

One of the key developments from Vatican II, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church, was its ecumenical outreach.

Another key change was the development of the New Mass in the vernacular, which essentially replaced the old Latin Mass. On Saturday, Benedict revived the old Latin Mass, saying it was wrong for bishops to deny it to the faithful because it had never been abolished. Traditional Catholics cheered the move, but more liberal ones called it a step back from Vatican II.

Benedict, who attended Vatican II as a young theologian, has long complained about what he considers the erroneous interpretation of the council by liberals, saying it was not a break from the past but rather a renewal of church tradition.

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith said it was issuing the new document on ecumenism because some contemporary theological interpretations of Vatican II's ecumenical intent had been "erroneous or ambiguous" and had prompted confusion and doubt.

The new document -- formulated as five questions and answers -- restates key sections of a 2000 text the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which riled Protestant, Lutheran and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."

"Christ 'established here on earth' only one Church," said the document released as the pope vacations at a villa in Lorenzago di Cadore, in Italy's Dolomite mountains.

The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession -- the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles -- and therefore their priestly ordinations are not valid, it said.

The Rev. Sara MacVane, of the Anglican Centre in Rome, said there was nothing new in the document.

"I don't know what motivated it at this time," she said. "But it's important always to point out that there's the official position and there's the huge amount of friendship and fellowship and worshipping together that goes on at all levels, certainly between Anglican and Catholics and all the other groups and Catholics."

The document said Orthodox churches were indeed "churches" because they have apostolic succession and that they enjoyed "many elements of sanctification and of truth." But it said they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the pope -- a defect, or a "wound" that harmed them, it said.

"This is obviously not compatible with the doctrine of Primacy which, according to the Catholic faith, is an 'internal constitutive principle' of the very existence of a particular Church," said a commentary from the congregation which accompanied the text.

Despite the harsh tone of the documents, they stressed that Benedict remains committed to ecumenical dialogue.

"However, if such dialogue is to be truly constructive it must involve not just the mutual openness of the participants but also fidelity to the identity of the Catholic faith," the commentary said.

The top Protestant cleric in Benedict's homeland, Germany, complained that the Vatican apparently did not consider that "mutual respect for the church status" was required for any ecumenical progress.

In a statement headlined "Lost Chance," Lutheran Bishop Wolfgang Huber argued that "it would also be completely sufficient if it were to be said that the reforming churches are 'not churches in the sense required here' or that they are 'churches of another type' -- but none of these bridges is used in the 'answers."'

The document, signed by the congregation prefect, American Cardinal William Levada, was approved by Benedict on June 29, the feast of Saints Peter and Paul -- a major ecumenical feast day.

There was no indication why the pope felt it necessary to release the document, particularly since his 2000 document summed up the same principles. Some analysts suggested it could be a question of internal church politics, or that the Congregation was sending a message to certain theologians it did not want to single out. Or, it could be an indication of Benedict using his office as pope to again stress key doctrinal issues from his time at the Congregation.

In fact, the only theologian cited by name in the document for having spawned erroneous interpretations of ecumenism was Leonardo Boff, the Brazilian who was a target of the former Cardinal Ratzinger's crackdown on liberation theology in the 1980s.


sermonindex Jul 11, 2007

Felt your link should be posted out brother.
Thank you for doing so.

Tuesday, July 10, 2007
Associated Press.

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy — [b]For the second time in a week,[/b] Pope Benedict XVI has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church and saying other Christian communities were either defective or not true churches.

sermonindex Jul 11, 2007


Hi vsuarez,

There is a thread on this topic in the News and Current Events forum called:

Pope: Other Christian denominations not true churches

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=17899&forum=48&23]https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=17899&forum=48&23[/url]


Do you have a slightly different approach in mind?

sermonindex Jul 11, 2007

I think the key words here again are, "for the SECOND time this week".

One of the key developments from Vatican II, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church, was its ecumenical outreach.

Another key change was the development of the New Mass in the vernacular, which essentially replaced the old Latin Mass. On Saturday, Benedict revived the old Latin Mass, saying it was wrong for bishops to deny it to the faithful because it had never been abolished. Traditional Catholics cheered the move, but more liberal ones called it a step back from Vatican II.

Benedict, who attended Vatican II as a young theologian, has long complained about what he considers the erroneous interpretation of the council by liberals, saying it was not a break from the past but rather a renewal of church tradition.

Would like to re-quote this entire article because there is much history in it, most especially since Ratzinger wrote Dominus Iesus, that these dumb "protestants" seemed to forget about when they decided to believe this tripe about the RCC becoming "ecumenical".

I left the RCC when I was 10 years old.

The ONLY reason they changed their Mass and became more and more "protestant looking in their approach" since, is just to suck in the naive and "Unity at the expense of Truth protestants".

I noticed years ago, how they started allowing Bible Study groups, guitar playing, charismania, and anything they could possibly add to APPEAR to be "just like all Christians".
I saw the farce in that with their copy-catting of our forms of worship and presenting a "sudden way to salvation method through grace by faith".

It all came so suddenly --- books written with the word "Salvation" in them to make the Protestants think they'd changed their ways.

I'm sorry, but I'm a bit angry at all this hypocrisy and wolf in sheep clothing maneuvers that they have gotten themselves into just to fool, deceive and Evangelize the naive into their own camp and rob from those who were in Christ Only.

I have no pity for these groups who joined in with them in any way whatsoever, thinking they could have "unity".

I felt when Ratzinger became their pope, that he was "the foundation setter" and posted that here at that time.

He set the foundation with Dominus Iesus.

Next he will tell us "what man" should be our "world ruler", as John Paul's parting words were, "go with the U.N."

That is the "uneasiness" ---- all the people are in their places NOW.
No need to wait for the end times to "begin".

Please, I ask you forgive my frustrations of late, but I feel it couldn't get any clearer and I'm praying that none of us will be lost in the "great falling away" or given over to "the strong (def.-"effectual") delusion".

When GOD sends an "effectual delusion" it certainly is effectual and binding .... because they loved not Truth.

V
vsuarez Jul 11, 2007

At least they are again being honest about their position concerning non-catholic churches. In the past, they interpreted Vatican II as saying we are less than perfect, but still related somehow. I didn't buy it. And I am glad that the current Pope is making the Catholic churches position crystal clear. It should help those who think they (the Catholic) consider us to be "in the church". In reality, officially, we are not saved. To be saved you must be IN the Catholic church. They have always held this position firmly and they alway will.

sermonindex Jul 11, 2007

Amen brother.

John Paul was used to suck the protestants in with his 'sweetness' and allowing all of the protestant looking changes to that system.

But he commissioned Ratzinger to write Dominus Iesus and then signed it.

I'm reminded of where Jesus said, "think not that I have come to bring peace .... but daughter will turn against mother and your murderers will those of your Own Household."

If these things don't grieve us, nothing will.

V
vsuarez Jul 11, 2007


dorcas wrote:

Hi vsuarez,

There is a thread on this topic in the News and Current Events forum called:

Pope: Other Christian denominations not true churches

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=17899&forum=48&23]https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=17899&forum=48&23[/url]


Do you have a slightly different approach in mind?


LOL. I did not know there was already a thread for this topic. Maybe I'll remove it. :)

sermonindex Jul 11, 2007

Please don't.

Edit: btw - Bumping.

sermonindex Jul 11, 2007

Not bumping this time, but as is always the case, whenever things get messy they Always send in their smiley faced, sweet & friendly looking, old timey sorta Irish looking priest with a tradional name to clean up the mess.

Couldn't help also to see this definition:

DEMAGOGUE, n. Demagog. [Gr. The populas, and to lead.]

1. A leader of the people; an orator who pleases the populace and influences them to adhere to him.

2. Any leader of the populace; any factious man who has great influence with the great body of people in a city or community.


I've seen this "clean up" action all of my living days, so take it for what it's worth.

Fooling protestants is one thing, but fooling is actually "Lying", if we care to be technical or Biblical.

The other thread mentioned here has the Council of Trent, etc. in it.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288976,00.html

sermonindex Jul 11, 2007

Does anybody know where Krispy is and why he isn't in on this topic??? LOL Seriously, I noticed a few days ago he was MIA. Does anyone know anything?

T
Tears_of_joy Jul 11, 2007

Does anybody know where Krispy is and why he isn't in on this topic??? LOL Seriously, I noticed a few days ago he was MIA. Does anyone know anything?

Krispy on 2007/7/3: "I dont know about y'all but I'm headed out of town for a week or so. Gonna head to Georgia to see the inlaws, the outlaws and anyone else."

sermonindex Jul 12, 2007

I find this to be in common with the article:::::

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer:, therefore, ye shall receive the greater damnation.


Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

(Gold is of the earth. Church buildings and establishments are of the men, also the earth.)

We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.!
A church not made by hands nor established by men, so that no man may boast.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law,judgment,, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

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