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Catholic Church to Pay $660 Million for Abuse

sermonindex Jul 16, 2007

Catholic Church to pay $660 million for abuse

Philippe Naughton and agencies

Hundreds of people who claim they were abused by clergy affiliated with the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles can expect to be paid more than $1 million each in a $660 million (£325 million) settlement of their lawsuits.

The deal, by far the largest settlement in the Church’s sexual abuse scandal, was reached yesterday, said Ray Boucher, a lawyer representing the lead plaintiff, and pushes the amount paid out in compensation for abuse since 1950 to more than $2 billion.

Around 500 victims of sexual abuse, some of it dating back as far as the 1940s, will receive over $1.3 million each.

The case had been scheduled to go to trial tomorrow in Los Angeles Superior Court, focusing on 12 plaintiffs who accused a former priest, Clinton Hagenbach, of molesting them. Hagenbach died two decades ago.
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One of those plaintiffs was Steven Sanchez who said that he was simultaneously relieved and disappointed. “I was really emotionally ready to take on the archdiocese in court in less than 48 hours, but I’m glad all victims are going to be compensated,” he said. “I hope all victims will find some type of healing in this process.”

Had the case gone to trial, lawyers had sought to put Cardinal Roger Mahony, Archbishop of Los Angeles, in the uncomfortable position of testifying about the Church’s response to abuses dating from the 1940s to the 1990s.

Because the criminal statute of limitations has expired, victims in California and elsewhere have brought lawsuits against the Church over the issue.

A spokesman for the Los Angeles Diocese, speaking a few hours before news of the deal emerged, would only say that church officials planned to be in court on Monday morning.

The judge hearing the case will have to approve the settlement.

David Clohessy, national director of SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, said the deal was by far the largest group settlement with the Catholic Church, although a handful of plaintiffs have received greater amounts on an individual basis than each is to receive from this settlement.

“It is never about the money,” Mr Clohessy said in an interview. “Victims want healing, prevention, closing, accountability.”

The diocese is expected to sell property to raise the settlement funds. The Los Angeles Times newspaper has estimated that the Los Angeles Archdiocese, America's largest, has real estate holdings worth more than $4 billion. Several US Catholic diocese with less substantial holdings have filed for bankruptcy protection in wake of the abuse scandal.

“Though it has always been the position of the Archdiocese that the insurance companies must honor their responsibility to fund a major share of future settlements, the Archdiocese must also be prepared to fund its share of these coming settlements,” Cardinal Mahony said in a statement earlier this year.

“This will require the Archdiocese to begin to dispose of non-essential real estate properties in order to raise funds for coming settlements, and to reevaluate some of the services and ministries it provides to parishes,” he said.

The Archdiocese also settled 46 cases in December for $60 million.

Mr Boucher said negotiations on the settlement nearly collapsed on Friday but were pulled back and concluded yesterday. He said a few religious orders named in the case - the Servites, Claretians and Oblates - declined to participate in the settlement.

[url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2079126.ece]Original Link - TimesOnline[/url]

T
tjservant Jul 16, 2007

“It is never about the money,”

I wonder how many will drop their checks into the offering plate.

**edit**

I see now that my phrasing of the above statement was in poor taste. I was just trying to say that if the “money means nothing” I wonder how many will give it away.

sermonindex Jul 16, 2007


tj said

I wonder how many will drop their checks into the offering plate.
If you know something about recvering from childhood sexual abuse.... why would you say that?

T
tjservant Jul 16, 2007

Hi dorcas

I'm not sure what you are asking.

T
tjservant Jul 16, 2007

Maybe I should rephrase:

“It is never about the money,” Mr Clohessy said in an interview. “Victims want healing, prevention, closing, accountability.”

If this is true…I was wondering how many will be giving their money away…because “it’s never about the money”, but they always ask for it…lots of it.

sermonindex Jul 16, 2007


Hi tj,

Thank you for your courteous reply. I didn't want to assume you were joking, but I was surprised that anyone would [i]say[/i] that....

I have not been following how much the survivors asked for money, compared with the RCC wishing to be seen to acknowledge the damage done by the abuse.

While I guess that those who have no use for the money (because they have been able to afford the help they need already), may wish to give (some of) it away, your comment implied you believe survivors don't [i]need[/i] 'money', as part of their compensation. In this case also, (it seems) there is for some cases, no-one to put in prison.

Historically, the church has protected the priests who do this, by moving them from parish to parish, basically opening up new populations of children to be molested by the same person. I'm sure they have not changed their internal stance on hiding such perpetrators, as can be seen by how few have ever been abandoned (by the church) to serve appropriate prison terms.

Also, if you were molested 60 years ago, and this is the first public acknowledgement of it, then most of your life has been adversely affected by the abuse.

In fact, if you were molested 2 minutes ago, the [i]rest[/i] of your life will be adversely affected by it. That's why money plays a part in restorative justice, if at all possible. Only the very rich can afford the best type of care for themselves, whether that be experienced counsellors or the many other types of support for daily life which survivors really need.

Many other considerations compound the profundity of the effect of abuse on a victim. As the man said, it IS 'never about the money', and I think if you have time to read around this subject, you will begin to understand that.

However, I do also understand the survivor who wouldn't want to touch the money with a barge-pole, because of its associations. But, that will be rather a luxury for some, and for the same reasons, they might not want to give it to God.... :-?

T
tjservant Jul 16, 2007

Only the very rich can afford the best type of care for themselves, whether that be experienced counsellors or the many other types of support for daily life which survivors really need.

I don’t believe money can buy what they need. The BEST type of care, counseling, and advice will come from saints…and they will not be charging for their services.

I believe if they seek help and healing through God he is completely sufficient to do just that. He does not care about their financial situation nor is he limited by it.

Money does not buy what God gives freely. Complete restoration, healing and deliverance.

I believe this is just another case of “Christians” turning to worldly means (money)to get what only God can give.

sermonindex Jul 16, 2007

I don’t believe money can buy what they need. The BEST type of care, counseling, and advice will come from saints…and they will not be charging for their services.

I believe if they seek help and healing through God he is completely sufficient to do just that. He does not care about their financial situation nor is he limited by it.

Money does not buy what God gives freely. Complete restoration, healing and deliverance.

I believe this is just another case of “Christians” turning to worldly means (money)to get what only God can give.

A very close family member of mine was repeatedly sexually assaulted when she was a child. She was unable to have normal relations with a man and generally distrusts people. She is now in her sixties and is just coming to terms with the abuse.

There is nothing "worldy" about demanding justice - the saints cry for it from under the alter day and night.

A million dollars won't buy back thirty years of pain, anguish, and mistrust... but it is a small evidence of justice on earth.

As far as I'm concerned, public castration and execution isn't good enough for a priest who harms a little one.

T
tjservant Jul 16, 2007

First off, this tragedy has struck very close to home in my life as well.


A million dollars won't buy back thirty years of pain, anguish, and mistrust... but it is a small evidence of justice on earth.

Money = Justice ???

$600 million out of the Roman Catholic Church is like getting a penny from me. They won't feel a thing.

I too believe in justice, but I don’t see “True Saints” demanding millions of dollars for justice.

my 2 cents

**edit**

Well maybe more than a penny, but I still don’t equate justice with dollar signs.

sermonindex Jul 16, 2007

I too believe in justice, but I don’t see “True Saints” demanding millions of dollars for justice.

It's kinda like what happened in the O.J. Simpson trial. After Simpson was aquitted of Murder (the criminal case failed) the families of the deceased went after him in a civil suit.

The Catholic Church has gone to great pains to protect priests caught in this sort of sin - removing them from the States to the Vatican (which is its own country). I don't know of anyone who's been extradited from the Vatican to face charges in another country.

Since the victims can't go after the priests in a criminal suit, they go after those protecting them - the Roman Catholic Church.

I'm sure the victims would rather see the priests hanged from the tallest tree in America. But if a civil suit's the only way they can get some sense of justice, I say "get as much as you can".

I too believe in justice, but I don’t see “True Saints” demanding millions of dollars for justice.

They are victims, not necessarily saints. But if the Catholic Church won't defend children from this type of abuse, shouldn't the evangelical commmunity step up to the plate and give a voice to those who can't defend themselves?

And since the Catholic Church won't protect them, and the Evangelicals don't lift a finger to help, they turn to the world for justice.

Pitiful.

I
IRONMAN Jul 17, 2007

bro TJ

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved. AMEN.

The RCC has deep pockets but all the same, $600 mil will still hurt. Some of the dioceses have filed bankruptcy.

Money doesn't necessarily mean justice but certainly financial punitive damages are legal and as such can be attained. To be sure there are many frivolous lawsuits which ought to get tossed out. As we live our lives down here we ought to follow the laws of the land in as much as they don't violate God's Laws. There is provision for suing in the Law so it is Legal as far as God is concerned. i used to think along the same lines as you do about suing and getting a settlement, but we have to consider the fact that punitive damages of a financial kind tend to keep people and organizations from repeating wrongs for which they can be so sued. This doesn't happen all the time but it does hurt to get hit in the pocket book saved or not...Then also we must consider that God Himself also operates to punish wrongs using the laws of the land. Eventually everyone will stand before Him and give an account.


I too believe in justice, but I don’t see “True Saints” demanding millions of dollars for justice.

i would say that in this regard you're wrong. When i thought along those lines, i was convicted of a false piety which was a twist on pride and had to repent of it.another thing was being jealous of those who would get more money than i have in such settlements. perhaps you may want to consider that perhaps one or both of these could be your motivation for thinking this way?

There is nothing wrong with suing for a large amount of money if it is legal and not frivolous and most of all upon prayerful consideration, God says to do so. Of course when the money comes, there are some other issues to deal with then, obviously wealth should be handled prayerfully to see it is used for what God intends lest we end up indulging ourselves. The True Saint ought to abide by the laws of the land and if a part of punishment or justice allows for suing, then we ought to sue. of course when it comes to dealings with other Christians, we ought to settle matters among ourselves. Paul appealed to Caesar, some might have said that wasn't very saintly but it was legal and God used that occasion to put him before the king as God had promised. Doesn't God work in Mysterious Ways?

Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.

T
tjservant Jul 17, 2007

Pitiful.

You said it Brother!

T
tjservant Jul 17, 2007

Grace and Peace IRONMAN

I would like to make a change to my statement:

I too believe in justice, but I don’t see *MANY* “True Saints” demanding millions of dollars for justice.

I should not have lumped everyone into the same category.

i would say that in this regard you're wrong.

As for my statement being wrong…I’m not sure how you can definitively declare this, but you are entitled to your opinion. I didn't state a law...just said I don't see it...and I still don't.

perhaps one or both of these could be your motivation for thinking this way?

I see money as very dangerous, especially in large amounts, and most Saints I know would not want the temptations and responsibilities of being a millionaire…and then there’s that whole “camel through the eye of a needle” thing.

just my 2 cents

You provided some food for thought...thank you.

Grace and Peace Brother

sermonindex Jul 17, 2007


tj said

I see money as very dangerous, especially in large amounts, and most Saints I know would not want the temptations and responsibilities of being a millionaire…and then there’s that whole “camel through the eye of a needle” thing.
While your statement is completely true, and I realise I'm about to make what may strike you as a sweeping (and therefore unjustifyable) generalisation, you are demonstrating literally no comprehension of the effects of sexual abuse in childhood, or of the difference between it being committed by a family member, a member of the church, or a random stranger, or [i]any[/i] of the other [i]many[/i] subtle nuances of effect according to other individual circumstances and factors.

Whether they are saints or not, your focus on the money may be betraying you. Your previous assertion that survivors should be getting help from the church, from 'the saints', also suggests your idealism is not matched by your realism in respect of this particular subject.

If this sounds harsh, I really do apologise. I love your idealism absolutely, but after this, you have need of patience - a lot of it - if you are to walk with a survivor who knows the Lord, through the years it will take them to be restored to real inner health.

And [i]of course[/i] their relationship with the Lord plays a huge part in this. But, just for a second put your mind to thinking what you might think about God, if a 'priest' had sexually abused you... Do you [i]like[/i] Him? Do you want Him in your life? On what grounds would you now trust Him?

I
IRONMAN Jul 17, 2007

bro TJ

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved. AMEN.

your edition to your statement is noted bro.

As for my statement being wrong…I’m not sure how you can definitively declare this, but you are entitled to your opinion. I didn't state a law...just said I don't see it...and I still don't.

as i said "i would say you are wrong" which is as you said my opinion. i see it all differently according to the measure of Faith given me as do you. and that i also took into account the law does change things also as we see them.

I see money as very dangerous, especially in large amounts, and most Saints I know would not want the temptations and responsibilities of being a millionaire…and then there’s that whole “camel through the eye of a needle” thing.

indeed money can be dangerous. i would say though that if God gives Grace enough for us to be uncoupled from sin, handling money for those He has called to such (for His Glory in providing for others) is no big deal. MOney is equally dangerous in small amounts, perhaps even more so because of the view that more money=more danger. When we think we are secure is when we are most vulnerable i think. i used to think along those lines till God showed me i was to be a steward over wealth. initially i ascribed my reluctance for such to piety...God showed me otherwise...it was a twist on pride with a hint of unbelief. essentially i didn't want to handle wealth because i didn't think God capable of extending Grace enough to me to handle it with the Excellence expected of Him. i was taking into account my own strength before His and had to repent of it. i have no desire for wealth but have been given a responsibility by God to do so. Perhaps this may be some more for us both to consider?

God has been most Gracious to us both and indeed all of us!

Grace and Peace be ours indeed in Jesus' Name. AMEN.

sermonindex Jul 17, 2007

If you're going to start a cult (i.e. Catholic Church), and then require all of your "clergy" to be celebate (forbidden to marry: 1 Timothy 4:2-3)... this is what you get. This, and rampant homosexuality (which is also out of control among Catholic "clergy").

The Catholic Church is the great whore which is spoken of in Revelation 17... and we're just seeing the tip of the iceburg. It is much worse than they are admitting, and as we approach the end of days it will get even more evil, sadistic and hellish.

Krispy

T
tjservant Jul 17, 2007

you are demonstrating literally no comprehension of the effects of sexual abuse in childhood, or of the difference between it being committed by a family member, a member of the church, or a random stranger, or any of the other many subtle nuances of effect according to other individual circumstances and factors

That’s because I’m trying to discuss the financial part of this story…not the effects of abuse.

Whether they are saints or not, your focus on the money may be betraying you.

I was simply pointing out that in today’s society everyone…I mean most people...that get hurt, whether it be from hot coffee, a car crash, or sexual abuse, want money. I would call pointing this out an observation…not some sort of financial focus.

If this sounds harsh, I really do apologise. I love your idealism absolutely, but after this, you have need of patience - a lot of it - if you are to walk with a survivor who knows the Lord, through the years it will take them to be restored to real inner health.

And of course their relationship with the Lord plays a huge part in this. But, just for a second put your mind to thinking what you might think about God, if a 'priest' had sexually abused you... Do you like Him? Do you want Him in your life? On what grounds would you now trust Him?

I have a good friend that was repeatedly molested by her father when she was a child. I’m not completely without insight on this topic

Once again, I was just trying to point out how so many people turn to money to fix things.

Maybe some day I will learn to just read these forums.
:-)

sermonindex Jul 17, 2007

Maybe some day I will learn to just read these forums.

Hahahahahahahahaahaaaa....

You made my day!

>;')

T
tjservant Jul 17, 2007

Grace and Peace IRONMAN

Perhaps this may be some more for us both to consider?

Yes it is…thank you.

I have no financial fixation, I was just trying to point out how so many people turn to money to fix things.

I
IRONMAN Jul 17, 2007

bro TJ

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved. AMEN

Indeed people do oft turn to money to fix things, without insight on how to use it, it becomes dangerous...

Grace and Peace to us all in Jesus' Name. AMEN.

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