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Theology

Did Jesus Carry His Cross?

sermonindex Jul 19, 2007

This was presented to me by a brother while were fellowshipping on a bus the other day, that Jesus never carried His cross to Calvary!

I've watched the movies the depict Christ carrying His cross and I was stunned to find out in scripture that He did not carry it. Matthew, Mark and Luke tells the story, while John is a little vague, but because of the witness of the other three gospels we need to believe that the 'he' that John spoke of was Simon.

Tradition tells us that Christ fell half way to Golgotha and Simon the Cyrene took up His cross.

Let me put the scriptures forth for your examination from all three.

MATTHEW'S GOSPEL:

Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this [b]just Person[/b]Matthew 27:31 And after that they had mocked Him, they took the robe off from Him, and put his own raiment on Him, and led Him away to crucify Him.: see ye to it.32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear His cross.33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull,

MARK'S GOSPEL:

Mark 15:14 Then Pilate said unto them, Why, [b]what evil hath He done?[/b] And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify Him.20 And when they had mocked Him, they took off the purple from Him, and put His own clothes on Him, and led Him out to crucify Him.21 And they compelled one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear His cross.22 And they brought Him unto the place Golgotha, which is, being interpreted, The place of a skull.

LUKE'S GOSPEL:

Luke 23:22 And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath He done? [b]I have found no cause of death in Him[/b]Luke 23:25 And he released unto them him that for sedition and murder was cast into prison, whom they had desired; but he delivered Jesus to their will.: I will therefore chastise Him, and let Him go.26 And as they led Him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus.27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.

JOHN'S GOSPEL:

John 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw Him, they cried out, saying, Crucify Him, crucify Him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye Him, and crucify Him: for [b]I find no fault in Him[/b].John 19:16 Then delivered he Him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led Him away.17 And he[Simon the cyrene] bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
[emphasis mine]

The [b]BOLD[/b] words that you see of Pilate saying that Jesus is innocent. The reason why I placed them there is because according to Roman law a criminal must bear his own cross, but Pilate knew that Jesus was innocent and did not allow Jesus to carry His cross.

It is my opinion that Simon the cyrene was a Jew coming to the feasts that was taking place at that time. The name Simon is a Jewish name. But don't let my opinion thwart this thread.

J
jordanamo Jul 19, 2007

We are all to bear the cross of Christ like Simon. It is not for Christ alone to bear. And it's not a one time act, it's everyday. There's something essential to your Christian understanding here... because here Simon totally shared in the rebuke and suffering of Jesus.. and he was innocent, just as Jesus was! (Although in a different form of innocence, of course)

sermonindex Jul 19, 2007

Keep in mind also that Jesus was not unable to carry the cross the entire way... He could have, but he chose to humble Himself by accepting human limitations. If He had wanted to He could have picked up that cross and hurled it at the Roman soldiers. But that was not His Father's will.

Krispy

sermonindex Jul 19, 2007

Compliments, I never saw this and I think the LORD allowed me not to see until NOW because I really needed this right now.

Your post brought me to complete tears ~ THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH BROTHER !!!

Quote:
[b]The reason why I placed them there is because according to Roman law a criminal must bear his own cross,[u] but Pilate knew that Jesus was innocent and did not allow Jesus to carry His cross. [/u][/b]


BLESS HIS HOLY,HOLY,HOLY NAME !


Thank you.


P.S. edit: As I was just typing this, the song "I Can Only Imagine" by MercyMe is playing.

Oh Yeah !!!

sermonindex Jul 20, 2007

Annie I am so thankful that you were blessed, it's always a joy when we lift up the name of Jesus together. Thanks for the encouraging words. :-)

C
Christinyou Jul 20, 2007

Pilate may have to carknow that Jesus was innocent, But Jesus did carry His won cross until He was outside the Gate, or scripture is wrong. Then Simon the cyrene was compelled to carry His cross the rest of the way because He could not and the Romans did not want Him to die before He was crucified or He was taking to long.

Mat 27:32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

Hebrews 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Matthew 27:32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

Jesus carried His own Cross outside the Gate then Simon carried it or helped Jesus carry it.

John 19:15-17 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away. And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

All of us deserved the Cross and it should be Jesus standing at the bottom of the Cross, not His blood, saying Father your Judgement is true. But God in His infinite Love and will desired that Jesus be the One that would suffer outside the Gate, that we might have eternal life and the Grace of God the Father through Jesus Christ and His Cross, He was guilty but not His own guilt, it was our guilt and guilty plea that He suffered for. We were judged guilty and Jesus Christ took the condemned sentence of death upon Himself that God had decreed that we might be set free from any condemnation.

Verdict: Not Guilty by way of the Cross of Christ by whom He has set us free, that we were crucified with Him in our Sin through Him that we might live. Resurrection Power? To the Utmost. We live because He lives. Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Are we crucified to sin? Galatians 2:17-18 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

We are not sinners, that is why "He that is born of God does not sin", or else we are building again what Christ has killed at the Cross, that is the sin that dwells in us. "It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me", He is no sinner. Now we can appreciate the Cross even more, He died and we died to sin with Him, That we might live unto God. Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. The Law condemned me, the Cross Set me free.

Praise God I do not have to carry my own cross ever again, for it only leads to death, and He did that once and never again. Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died

We died once with Him, we now liveth unto God. Praise God and Amen, now I can love Him as He wants and deserves, by the Power of the Son of God that is born again in me.

Father I love you by the Christ in me: Phillip

sermonindex Jul 20, 2007

Philip said:But Jesus did carry His won cross until He was outside the Gate, or scripture is wrong.
Can you give one verse of scripture that they laid the cross on Jesus and He carried it? Please no assumptions or traditions, just bible. I want to read where it says that they actually laid it on Him. The crown of thorns was put on His head, thats recorded. They scourged Him, thats recorded, but where does it say they laid the cross on Jesus?

sermonindex Jul 20, 2007


Yes.

John 19
16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led [i]him[/i] away.
17 [u]And he bearing his cross went forth[/u] into a place called [i]the place[/i] of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
18 Where they crucified him,

Remember, John was actually there. Peter, on whose testimony Mark's is based, had gone out to weep and Matthew had run away.

Now, this doesn't mean that Simon didn't carry it part of the way, but, Jesus did carry it to start with.

sermonindex Jul 20, 2007


Hey Compliments!

I just looked at your leading post and see you [i][b]added[/i][/b] Simon of Cyrene's name into John's gospel.

:-o

Isn't that strictly forbidden [u]and[/u] [i]not at all[/i] scholarly?

P
PaulWest Jul 21, 2007

17 And he[Simon the cyrene] bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull

Brother, something is wrong here. Why did you insert Simon's name in those brackets? Verse 16 flows smoothly into verse 17, and verse 16 speaks of Jesus Christ only. He was delivered up to be crucifed...and he bore his cross and they led him away. A child can read and understand this. Why then the bracketed convolution? Jesus said earlier that if anyone wished to follow him they would have to pick up their [i]own[/i] cross and follow him. The Captain of our Salvation asks us to do nothing that he hasn't already done. Your theory implies that God requires us to do something he never did. I cannot accept this.

I believe that Jesus not only carried his cross for an undetermined length of time after his scourging, but that he was also stripped nude and nailed to it. Did "Roman Law" permit innocent men to be nailed to a cross after the legal nicety of allowing someone else carry it for them? Why didn't Pilate adjudicate the innocence of Christ there as well and overrule the actual [i]crucifixion?[/i]

I hope you are not teaching new converts that Christ didn't carry his cross. It may not seem like an important issue to stress, but, brother, this is just how Satan slips the dagger in. It starts out with a little fox like this, but that little fox can turn quickly into a wolf. Please be careful, brother. My humble advice is to not be taken up so fast by these [i]new[/i] discoveries. Always measure scripture against other scripture to achieve a proper, coherent balance. See, if such a revelation of this magnitude were indeed true, it would have already been accepted among the old paths and by the small remnant of God's holy saints throughout the generations.

It was not and is not.

Brother Paul

sermonindex Jul 21, 2007

Maybe he copied it from somewhere/one else ?

Could be why I 'never' heard it before ?

Thank GOD for all the Body parts of the Body.

I doubt that he would purposely deceive.

P
PaulWest Jul 21, 2007

I doubt that he would purposely deceive.

I don't think he would deceive either, sister. I just think that in order to make such a theory fit, you have to paint a bullseye around an arrow. It would have to be forced. Hence the bracketed insertion we saw. Why didn't God mention Simon in all four accounts? I believe it was to teach us to measure scripture against [i]all[/i] scripture. If, in the Word of God, we find 99 accounts indicating one thing, but we find 1 account indicating another, we must stop all engines and dig for the one reconcilling verse. When we discover this one verse, we can now join the 99 with the 1 and arrive at 100% truth. But if we fail have 100% truth and try instead to purport only 75% truth, we end up with 100% error.

sermonindex Jul 21, 2007

Of course I know that is truer than true brother Paul. It's just how it was posted, as if he had discussed it with someone and posted that part about Pilate thinking Jesus was innocent and all and I was surprised I had never heard that but was open to not knowing everything ... ha ... believe it or not. :-)

I trust folks, until they give me reason not to.

I'm full blown Berean, but in this instance, I didn't check on his post. I don't want to be suspicious neither. Fine balance between Berean and fine tooth combing 'every' post. Phew.
That was hard enough to do on the Israel thread.

Bless ya and 1% arsenic in a gallon of cool-aid can kill. I truly do understand. 8-)

P
PaulWest Jul 21, 2007

Yes, sister, I understand. My first post seemed accusatory. I think he said that someone shared this concept with him; he may have been only cutting and pasting. It was wrong of me to assume the bracketed content was of his own doing.

Forgive me, brother. I will try to be more sensitive to things like this.

Brother Paul

sermonindex Jul 21, 2007

Paul, you have always been a gentlemen.

He said the emphasis was his, so I think he can explain why he did it ... but it's not that you are too hard. You're the type of Christian that I wish I were in explaining things. I try not to sound blunt, but sometimes I just 'assume' folks know that I mean no harm.

Bless you brother always.

T
tjservant Jul 21, 2007

1% arsenic in a gallon of cool-aid can kill
:-)

Good one GrannieAnnie

I wish I could express myself half as good as you and PaulWest can.

P
PaulWest Jul 21, 2007

Dear sister,

Remember I mentioned certain "missing link" verses? Well, one such verse is Matthew 16:24: "If any man will come after me," Jesus said, "he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."

Now, can you imagine Peter and the others beholding Simon carry their Lord's cross from the Praetorium all the way to Golgotha? "The Lord told us to take up our crosses and follow him," they could think. "But he hasn't carried his cross at all! Pilate said he doesn't have to...because he's innocent!"

Do you see the subtle error in such a theory? When you look at it in the light of the "big picture" it seems to throw the core truth of the gospel into deadly disarray. Like a kind of spiritual marijuana, it can open the door to even more deadly error. Is God the Author of such confusion, such havoc? No, no. Every Word in the Bible is very pure, purified 7 times by the Spirit. We need to handle it as such.

Brother Paul

sermonindex Jul 21, 2007

Bless you brother TJ. I learn from everyone here and have been blessed by everyone here.

Even in contentions, I'm trying to learn to temper this side of me. I just fear divisions among us and it took a long time for me to figure out that that's what makes me go off the hook. I'd laugh but it hasn't been funny to me at all. I'd go off-line and not be able to sleep because of what I posted, but could only pray that GOD would initiate the Rom 8:28 to it.
I like saying, I don't know everything. It always gives me an inner joy to say that. I like reading everyone's posts as if they are my Family (we know we are :), but each person matters here. I try to look beyond the monitor into what the person is --- in the sense of what they're really saying from their hearts, I guess I mean. Some folks can post really rough, but I've felt such a softness under all those typed words ... it's really neat. I think God took most of my brain away so I could 'feel' more. Sorta like when a someone becomes blind, their hearing gets better. I was just used to Apologetic debates before and strictly that, so this has been my "retirement" place now where I can chill and enjoy our Fellowship - Amen.
I still have a very long way to go but that's why I like coming here, to be refined and all's I can do is put people before doctrines, and only put doctrines first if the doctrine has the potential to rob salvation or cause dangerous deception. Yet God keeps telling me, if my motive isn't birthed by Love and Love alone for that person to be helped, then I should shut my computer off and go off-line again. Whatever it takes, we have to stay together with no regrets.
I see you feel that way too and so do most here.
We're in GOOD company here.
My husband asked tonite if I wanted a notebook he compiled on Christology or anything like that, while he was going through his Den.
I told him, "On SI --- No way, those folks are Cool".
I really feel that with all of my heart.

SI folks are cool. I've been on a few forums or just looked at them and when you see folks arguing over the Trinity or Deity of Christ and a whole host of basic doctrines being torn to shreads, that's when you really know we're in a safe place here. It's a pleasure to come here to grow and not to fight over essential doctrines or blatant heresies. Praise God!
We're ONE BODY. Ha, I love saying that too.

Bless you TJ & thanks for being our brother.

sermonindex Jul 21, 2007

Brother Paul, that verse wouldn't leave me since this conversation started, even during dinner earlier. I've read so many books about "dying to self" and of course that verse is in all of them, but I figured, "well, I'm not innocent - Jesus was the only innocent One." when I read Compliments post.

We do need to be jealous over His Word without question, I just feel in my case, the human element factored in this time, as I said earlier.

You are right of course.

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