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Theology

Paul: Actively & Presently the Worst Sinner??

sermonindex Jul 25, 2007

Quoting from:

Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 1 Timothy 1:15

Someone tried to say, on a different board, that Paul was saying here that he was actively and presently the worst sinner alive, and that Paul was not reflecting upon his unconverted life but his converted life.

This was my response to such a poor interpretation of scripture:

Are you saying that Paul, when he called himself "the Chief of Sinners" was talking about his current life and not his previous life? That he was literally the worst sinner alive at that moment? That no man presently lived and acted worst then Paul did at that moment?

That there was no moral change when Saul became Paul, but that he remained the same?

That he was worst, in his conduct at that moment, then all the fornicators, drunkards, sodomites, homosexuals, murderes, liars, and thieves that were alive at the time? That he was actively and presently worst then them at all even after being "saved" and "born again"? That Paul was actively and presently the Chiefest fornicator, the greatest sodomite, the worst homosexual??

That Paul as a "new man" was worst then everyone else who had not put off the "old man". That Paul as a save individual was worst then all unsaved sinners??

Do you honestly believe that a great majority of the N.T. was written, at the time, by the greatest sinner on earth?

I thought that the Holy Scriptures were written by Holy men who were influenced by the Holy Spirit?

But your telling me that the Holy Scriptures (Pauls epistles) were written by the most unholy, ungodly, wicked, vile, evil man of his day??

Do you believe that Paul wrote to the Churches, trying to remove the speck from their eyes, when Paul had a log in his own? For if Paul was actively and presently the worst of sinners, the Cheif of sinners, then all sin would look like a speck compared to his own.

Was Paul really a hypocrite? If Paul was the chief of sinners in a literal present sense, he must have been WORST then all the hypocrites of his day.

I think it's quite obvious that Paul was reflecting upon his past - previous life when He called himself the Chief (worst) sinner, and was not at all talking about his current, present life. Paul was reflecting on the great sins he committed (probably the murdering of the Saints) and was not thinking upon his current life, which was one of love and self denial for God and others.

N
Nile Jul 25, 2007

Do you believe that Paul wrote to the Churches, trying to remove the speck from their eyes, when Paul had a log in his own? For if Paul was actively and presently the worst of sinners, the Cheif of sinners, then all sin would look like a speck compared to his own.

Was Paul really a hypocrite? If Paul was the chief of sinners in a literal present sense, he must have been WORST then all the hypocrites of his day.

All good points.
The argument they use is that Paul [i]considered[/i] himself the greatest sinner of all. In his own eyes, they say, he was worse than everyone else on earth. And if you don't think the same way about yourself, well, that's wickedly prideful of you.

This is of course ridiculously silly. Paul over and over talks about his blameless conduct. He even says, "Follow me for I follow Christ". I don't think a sinner could say that!

Your point about all other sin being a speck is a great counter to this.

Thanks for the thread,
Nile

sermonindex Jul 25, 2007

If Paul was the greatest sodomite, the worst homosexual, the most perverted fornicator of his time, even after his conversion, he could not have said that he was holy, just, and blameless, a model to be followed:

1Th 2:10 - Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:

2Th 3:7 - For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

----------------------------

He tried to use this scripture to say that Christians sin and aren't righteous, just as much as when they were unconverted:

Romans 3:10-18 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, [b]there is none that seeketh after God[/b]. [u]They[/u] are all gone out of the way, [u]they[/u] are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. [u]Their[/u] throat is an open sepulchre; with [u]their[/u] tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under [u]their[/u] lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: [u]Their[/u] feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in [u]their[/u] ways: And [b]the way of peace have [u]they[/u] not known[/b]: [b]There is no fear of God before [u]their[/u] eyes[/b].

Why did Paul say "they" and "their" instead of "us" and "we"???

Because Paul was talking about the unconverted. The unconverted are not righteous, only the converted are.

The unconverted do not "seek after God". But the converted have sought and found.

The unconverted do not know the way of peace. But Jesus is the way and Christians do know that.

The unconverted have "no fear of God". But the converted do fear God, seeing that "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom."

sermonindex Jul 25, 2007

Jesse, not that I disagree with your post in general, but by your logic would you say that Paul was "the greatest sodomite, the worst homosexual, the most perverted fornicator of his time", before his conversion? Of course he was not the chief in all manifistations of sin.. however as was pointed out in the recent articles on the fatal trap of holiness preaching... Peter was not perfect the way some of todays so called holiness preachers would define perfect, yet God saw fit to use him.

Galatians 2
11When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
14When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all,

Was Peter sinning that grace may abound?

In Christ - Jim

sermonindex Jul 25, 2007

1. Paul said that he was holy, just, and blameless, a model to be followed.

2. "The fatal trap of Holiness preaching" is one of the worst articles I have ever seen. It brutalizes scriptures to justify sin, and it completely downplays the new birth and disregards the saving power of God through Christ.

The bible says we get a new heart and Christ cleanses the inside of the cup. There is no sin Jesus cannot save you from, there is no sin that you cannot repent from.

The problem with that article is that it made death the Savior and the grave the cure, rather then the present risen Savior who gives us a new heart and dwells within us.

3. Once error is brought to a Christians attention, they must repent or perish. Grace is given to all sins that are forsaken (Luke 13:3), but there is nothing but wrath for present, unforsaken, willfull sin. (Heb 10:26-31)

sermonindex Jul 25, 2007

The problem with that article is that it made death the Savior and the grave the cure, rather then the present risen Savior who gives us a new heart and dwells within us.

Jesse.. the thing I find most ironic about all of this is that the answer for some is to

1) twist scripture to define perfection
2) commend themselves as being perfect under their pet definition rather then the biblical definition
3) accuse anyone who does not adhere to their pet doctrine as being an antinomian
4) Puff them themselves up through this doctrine when in fact the saints of God who oppose it are quite possibly walking in truer holiness then those who support it (I only base this off spending 1+ years laboring, praying, studying and breaking bread with the author of this article and do not pass judgment on your personal walk in any way)

The kingdom of God is not in word but in power.. we can squabble over the meaning of words but the reality will be layed bare before the just judge of all the universe.

Let me conclude with this.
Lets say I start railing against the damnable prosperity doctrine and in my railings I bypass scriptural truth and demand that all believers quit their jobs and sell every possesion besides one article of clothing and refer to those who dont as greedy. I have now created a false doctrine and I can use certain texts to prove my position.

So lets say someone who lives a very simple life in Christ, basic shelter, simple diet, old unfashionable clothing, shares with all in need, cared for the orphans and widows, not storing up treasure on earth, etc. comes along and shows me my error.

What a great place to be in a debate... now all I have to do is say that this genuine person is promoting greed and the prosperity gospel by coming against my doctrine. What a blessed man indeed can have the debate so framed to support his error!

I feel like we are beating a dead horse, and quite frankly I don't think we are that far off in our points. Unfortunately this debate has been framed already.

Either way, I walk in no known sin thanks be to the cleansing power of Christ. I have read and listened to and agree with the same revivalists as you to a great extend and preach that Jesus came to save us from our sin, not in it.

In Christ - Jim

I
InTheLight Jul 25, 2007

I think maybe we are missing the point of what Paul is saying of himself in 1 Timothy when he says, "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief". He also speaks of himself like this in the present tense in Romans 7:14, "I am carnal, sold under sin".

He is not sanctioning a life of defeat but rather in both cases I believe that he is saying that after serving God faithfully for so many years and suffering so many hardships he, the great Apostle, still needs the grace of God as much as ever. His old nature is not improved and he is still completely dependent on God's undeserved love.

In Christ,

Ron

P
PreachParsly Jul 25, 2007

To me, I see the context being plain that he's talking about his past.

1Ti 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
1Ti 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.


Besides, that verse says that Paul was the chief, or the top one, that was saved! He came to save sinners and Paul was the biggest sinner saved.

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

sermonindex Jul 25, 2007

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Amen!

But are you holding to the doctrine of sinless perfection now. Which, all of Jesses recent posts have been aimed that way since the fatal trap of holiness article.

In Christ - Jim

H
HomeFree89 Jul 25, 2007

How about this verse: Ro 7:24 "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" I have talked with this guy about sanctification and he keeps bringing up this verse and says that it was present-tense and that Paul still sinned. What do you all think?

Jordan

H
HomeFree89 Jul 25, 2007

edit: double post

B
BradW Jul 25, 2007

Although I'm not a Greek scholar and have no clue what tenses the original texts indicate, when I read Romans 7:24 I CANNOT but continue to the end of the chapter...

I thank God - through Jesus Christ our Lord!

...of course! Jesus Christ our Lord delivers me from this body of death.

In my limited understanding, as best as I read Romans 7, I think that it is in part a description of Paul's testimony of the difference that Christ made in his life.

Chapter 7...in the flesh.
Chapter 8...in the spirit.

In Christ,
Brad.

L
Logic Jul 25, 2007

The word "sinner" or "sinners" refer to the unsaved 66 out of 67 time in the Bible.

The only time is is for a christian is when Paul calls himself the Chief of sinners.

I
IRONMAN Jul 25, 2007

greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved. AMEN.

dear saints i think it is important to note that Paul wrote to Timothy toward the end of his life. The order in which his epistles appear in the word is not the order in which they were written. if you notice, they begin with ROmans which is the longest and then go down the line in order of decreasing length. At first Paul saw himself as not being lesser than the most eminent apostles, then later he said he was the least of them on account of his persecution of the church, then at the end of his life he saw that he was the chief of sinners. We must understand that with Paul, God revealed so much of Himself to him that the Light and Holiness of God exposed every single wickedness of Paul to him. i can bear witness to this and i know you can too in that the closer you get to God, the more plainly you see your own wickedness and the more you realize how depserately you remain in need of the Grace and Mercy of GOd daily. my dear wife said to me some time ago that just when she though she had repented of all, God would say to her "Well there is the matter of..." i bless God i don't even look to see if i have repented of all but by His Grace i press on toward Perfection. i say that it is better to strive with God and by Him to be sinless than not to. The former causes one to press into God all the more and that is a blessed thing! Saints God has had me repent of much but i know i yet have more to repent of than i have already done...but i thank God for Jesus who saves me from the body of sin!

if you have not, i would say read bro Ron's post (IntheLight) it is a Holy Ghost annointed view of what was going on.

here it is for emphasis:

[i][b][color=0000CC]I think maybe we are missing the point of what Paul is saying of himself in 1 Timothy when he says, "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief". He also speaks of himself like this in the present tense in Romans 7:14, "I am carnal, sold under sin".

He is not sanctioning a life of defeat but rather in both cases I believe that he is saying that after serving God faithfully for so many years and suffering so many hardships he, the great Apostle, still needs the grace of God as much as ever. His old nature is not improved and he is still completely dependent on God's undeserved love.
[/color][/b][/i]

Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name AMEN.

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

I think Brother Josh was right on when he said that the full context shows Paul reflecting upon the past, Paul was thinking on his previous life.

Because of what Paul did PREVIOUSLY, He said that he was PRESENTLY the Cheif of sinners. Often when someone thinks about the things that they have done they say to themselves, "I'm a terrible person", even though they are thinking about their past actions.

1Ti 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1Ti 1:13 Who [b]was before[/b] a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
1Ti 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

But there is no reason to believe that Pauls present character was not changed after he was born again and started following Christ. Obviously if he was born again and was a follower of Christ, his entire character was changed. So Paul lived, as he said, a just, holy, blameless life worthy to be followed.

R
rowdy2 Jul 26, 2007

Paul: Actively & Presently the Worst Sinner??

There are today and through out history been sinners that exceeded their wildest dreams of persecution of the Body of Christ. At any given moment before his encounter with the Head of the body, Christ Jesus, Paul for a period in time may have been the worst sinner for Saul did demonstrate a zeal for persecuting the Body of Christ.
But the story did not end there because after His vision and conversion of Saul into The Body of Christ Jesus, The Church of God, Paul was subject to persecution by religious zealots that is common for members of The Body of every generation to receive, even more so in Paul case.

(Ac.2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.)

(Ac.9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.)

(Ac.9:23-25,29
23 And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him:
24 But their laying await was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him.
25 Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket.
29 And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.)

(Ac.16:19-25
19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers,
20 And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city,
21 And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans.
22 And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them.
23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely:
24 Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.
25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.)

(Ac.20:22-24
22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:
23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.
24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.)

(Ac.21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.)

(Ac.21:27-33
27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,
28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.
29 (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)
30 And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple: and forthwith the doors were shut.
31 And as they went about to kill him, tidings came unto the chief captain of the band, that all Jerusalem was in an uproar.
32 Who immediately took soldiers and centurions, and ran down unto them: and when they saw the chief captain and the soldiers, they left beating of Paul.
33 Then the chief captain came near, and took him, and commanded him to be bound with two chains; and demanded who he was, and what he had done.)

(Ac.22:22-24
22 And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live.
23 And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air,
24 The chief captain commanded him to be brought into the castle, and bade that he should be examined by scourging; that he might know wherefore they cried so against him.)
(Ac.23:10 And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them, and to bring him into the castle.)

(Ac.23:12-15
12 And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound themselves under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had killed Paul.
13 And they were more than forty which had made this conspiracy.
14 And they came to the chief priests and elders, and said, We have bound ourselves under a great curse, that we will eat nothing until we have slain Paul.
15 Now therefore ye with the council signify to the chief captain that he bring him down unto you to morrow, as though ye would enquire something more perfectly concerning him: and we, or ever he come near, are ready to kill him.)

(Rom.8:35-37
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.)

(1Cor.4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.)

(1Cor.4:11-13
11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.)

(2Cor.1:8-10
8 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:
9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;)

(2Cor.4:8-12
8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.)

(2Cor.6:4-5
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;)

(2Cor.6:8-10
8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.)

(2Cor.11:23-27
23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.)

(2Cor.11:32-33
32 In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me:
33 And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands.)

(2Cor.12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.)

(Gal.5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.)

.6:17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.)

(Php.1:30 Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.)

(Php.2:17-18
17 Yea, and if I be offered upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all.
18 For the same cause also do ye joy, and rejoice with me.)

(Col.1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:)

(1Th.2:2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.)

(1Th.2:14-15
14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:)

(1Th.3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.)

(2Tim.1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.)

(2Tim.2:9-10
9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.)

(2Tim.3:11-12
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.)

(2Tim.4:16-17
16 At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.
17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.)


Eddie

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007


jimdied2sin wrote:


Jesse.. the thing I find most ironic about all of this is that the answer for some is to

1) twist scripture to define perfection
2) commend themselves as being perfect under their pet definition rather then the biblical definition
3) accuse anyone who does not adhere to their pet doctrine as being an antinomian
4) Puff them themselves up through this doctrine when in fact the saints of God who oppose it are quite possibly walking in truer holiness then those who support it (I only base this off spending 1+ years laboring, praying, studying and breaking bread with the author of this article and do not pass judgment on your personal walk in any way)

The kingdom of God is not in word but in power.. we can squabble over the meaning of words but the reality will be layed bare before the just judge of all the universe.


Right on. this is good

M
moreofHim Jul 26, 2007

Ironman said:

if you notice, they begin with ROmans which is the longest and then go down the line in order of decreasing length. At first Paul saw himself as not being lesser than the most eminent apostles, then later he said he was the least of them on account of his persecution of the church, then at the end of his life he saw that he was the chief of sinners. We must understand that with Paul, God revealed so much of Himself to him that the Light and Holiness of God exposed every single wickedness of Paul to him. i can bear witness to this and i know you can too in that the closer you get to God, the more plainly you see your own wickedness and the more you realize how depserately you remain in need of the Grace and Mercy of GOd daily.

Amen!

This is just true humility. God continued to humble him, to decrease him- just as He did with Moses and others. The more broken you get, the more you realize how utterly sinful and wretched you really are- but along with that comes the [b]immense[/b] gratitude for the grace of God in which he has not squashed you flat for your prideful heart, but instead continues to love you and humble you to become more like His Son.

In His love, Chanin

C
Christinyou Jul 27, 2007

As with Paul in his physical deformities and infirmities, God did not take them away, but is not His Grace the same today. If it was sufficient enough for Paul, I am sure it stays sufficient for us. Was it not left to Paul to keep him from being pridefully puffed up, that is certainly sin. For He that knows to do right and does not do it, to him it is sin.

Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.


In Christ: Phillip

I
IRONMAN Jul 28, 2007

sis Chanin
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved. AMEN.

This is just true humility. God continued to humble him, to decrease him- just as He did with Moses and others. The more broken you get, the more you realize how utterly sinful and wretched you really are- but along with that comes the immense gratitude for the grace of God in which he has not squashed you flat for your prideful heart, but instead continues to love you and humble you to become more like His Son.

i bless God for the Cross and how He is working the Cross out in me. The more sensitive He makes me to my sin, the more i repent, the more i repent, the more i see His Grace extended to me, the more His Grace is extended to me, the more i see my absolutely desperate and constant need for it.

God is Good.

Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.

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