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What if I said "I and my saviour are one"?

P
Peacemaker Aug 8, 2007

If I am free from conscious sin - am I cleansed from all unrighteouness? Can the Holy Spirit search my heart and cleanse me from unconscious sin? Can I enter the holy of holies only because I don't know how sinful I am or am I completely holy by faith because of the regenerate life of Christ wedded with my soul and personality?

Isn't the full blessing of the at-one-ment - just that being made one-same-equal-nothing separate-together-complete-holy-in the GodHead- sons and daughters-no male,female,greek,jew,rich,poor, by faith.

R
rookie Aug 8, 2007

Brother Robert asks:

If I am free from conscious sin - am I cleansed from all unrighteouness? Can the Holy Spirit search my heart and cleanse me from unconscious sin?

What does unconscious sin speak to?

In Christ
Jeff

S
sojourner7 Aug 8, 2007

David would pray that God; who knows the
secrets of the heart, would cleanse him
from the faults he could not find.
We can enter the holy of holies only
because we have a High Priest who is
worthy and who ever liveth to make
intercession for us. Worthy is the
Lamb!! Holy is the Lord!!

sermonindex Aug 8, 2007

If I am free from conscious sin

Yes we can be free from conscious sin for a short time but unconscious sin will damn us to hell just as easily. Oh thank God for His mercy and death on the cross of Jesus Christ. There will be a day when we are glorified in the Son and will be free from sin fully.

P
Peacemaker Aug 12, 2007

What does unconscious sin speak too?

Jeff, I'm sorry it has taken me so long to reply, but I really wanted to think and do some more reading until God helped me with what I am trying to accept and understand.

Please read quote below from Oswald Chambers - Studies on the Sermon on the Mount; Study No 2, Actual and Real Matthew 5:21-22

(a) Disposition and Deeds (Matthew 5:21-22)
Our Lord is using an illustration that was familiar to the disciples. If a man disregarded the common judgment, he was in danger of being brought into an inner court, and if he was contemptuous with that court, he was in danger of the final judgment. Jesus uses this illustration of the ordinary exercise of judgment to show what the disposition of a disciple must be like, viz., that my motive, the place I cannot get at myself, must be right—the disposition behind the deed, the motive behind the actual occurrence. I may never be angry in deed, but Jesus Christ demands the impossibility of anger in disposition. The motive of my motives, the spring of my dreams, must be so right that right deeds will follow naturally.

In Psalm 139 the Psalmist is realising that he is too big for himself, and he prays “O Lord, explore me, search me out, and see if there be any way of grief in me, trace out the dreams of my dreams, the motives of my motives, make these right, and lead me in the way everlasting.” Deliverance from sin is not deliverance from conscious sin only, it is deliverance from sin in God’s sight, and He can see down into a region I know nothing about. By the marvellous Atonement of Jesus Christ applied to me by the Holy Spirit, God can purify the springs of my unconscious life until the temper of my mind is unblameable in His sight.

Beware of refining away the radical aspect of our Lord’s teaching by saying that God puts something in to counteract the wrong disposition—that is a compromise. Jesus never teaches us to curb and suppress the wrong disposition; He gives us a totally new disposition, He alters the mainspring of action. Our Lord’s teaching can be interpreted only by the new Spirit which He puts in; it can never be taken as a series of rules and regulations.

A man cannot imitate the disposition of Jesus Christ: it is either there, or it is not. When the Son of God is formed in me, He is formed in my human nature, and I have to put on the new man† in accordance with His life and obey Him; then His disposition will work out all the time. We make character out of our disposition. Character is what we make, disposition is what we are born with; and when we are born again we are given a new disposition. A man must make his own character, but he cannot make his disposition; that is a gift. Our natural disposition is gifted to us by heredity; by regeneration God gives us the disposition of His Son. Jesus Christ is pure to the depths of His motives, and if His disposition can be formed in me, then I begin to see how I can lay my account with purity. “Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” If I let God alter my heredity, I will become devoted to Him, and Jesus Christ will have gained a disciple. Many of us who call ourselves Christians are not devoted to Jesus Christ.

Our Lord goes behind the old law to the disposition. Everything He says is impossible unless He can put His Spirit into me and remake me from within, then I begin to see how it can be done. When a man is born from above (rv mg), he does not need to pretend to be a saint, he cannot help being one. Am I going to be a spiritually real man or a whitewashed humbug? Am I a pauper in spirit or conceited over my own earnestness? We are so tremendously in earnest that we are blinded by our earnestness and never see that God is more in earnest than we are. Thank God for the absolute poverty of spirit that receives from Him all the time.

There is only one way in which as a disciple you will know that Jesus has altered your disposition, and that is by trying circumstances. When circumstances put you to the test, instead of feeling resentment you experience a most amazing change within, and you say, “Praise God, this is an amazing alteration! I know now that God has altered me, because if that had happened to me before I should have been sour and irritable and sarcastic and spiteful, but now there is a well of sweetness in me which I know never came from myself.” The proof that God has altered our disposition is not that we persuade ourselves He has, but that we prove He has when circumstances put us to the test. The criticism of Christians is not wrong, it is absolutely right. When a man says he is born again, he is put under scrutiny, and rightly so. If we are born again of the Holy Ghost and have the life of Jesus in us by means of His Cross, we must show it in the way we walk and talk and transact all our business.

This is one of the few studies actually written by Oswald Chambers - he argues for the radical change at the core of our beings - the new disposition that is essentially Christ formed in you. This is what I also understand as "unconscious sin" that praise God he can uncover, root out, and exchange for Christ's righteousess, not in position only, but in reality - Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.

Your brother

Rob

C
Christinyou Aug 14, 2007

The old testament is revealed sin and sacrifice must be made.

The New Testament is revealed sin and sin that is not even revealed unless it is revealed by God, the person that knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. The opposite must be true also, if he knows it is sin and he does it, to him it is also sin.

The difference is the sacrifice. One of burnt offering and shedding of animal blood. The other is the once shed blood of the Lamb of God. One is covered by earthly things, the other is taken away and never thought of again by God and should be by the sinner. The old is covered and forgiven by earthly things the new is taken away and the cleansing of all unrighteousness is given. The old is works, the new is Grace, through faith. One is by mans works the other is by God's works, that is the cross of Christ, and all that pertains to Godliness through and in Him.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The Mystery: Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

This is wisdom of God making known sin and unknown sin His capacity and revelation in Christ Jesus.

Tts 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Who is the dispenser of Truth? Father, but by me.

Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jhn 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth

This is the reason of all sanctification, Thy Word is Truth, and who is the Word? How does it set us free, by direct revelation of Jesus Christ, distributed and dispensed by the Holy Spirit Teacher of the Truth.

Conscience or un conscience sin, revealed or unrevealed sin is in Christ by the Teacher Holy Spirit. All is forgiven at the Cross.

Act 26:18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:

All is in Christ and by the Christ in us.

I and the Savior are One.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The words In Christ occur in 224 verses, including 77 exact phrase matches shown first:
Must be pretty important.

In Christ: Phillip

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Christinyou Aug 21, 2007

"What if I said, I an my Savior are one?"

I would say right on and go even father. Christ is in me, "the hope of Glory". The Father makes His abode with me. The Holy Spirit is also in me forever. God has made Himself my Father also, by birthing His Son in me. By this I am a son of God.

Colossians 1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

John 14:23-27 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Who are we son's of?

Phl 2:22 But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the Father, he hath served with me in the gospel.

Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

1Jo 3:1 ¶ Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

IN Christ, a son of God my Father. Phillip

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