what defines obedience?

How obedient do we have to be if Jesus is our Lord?Are we to take His words and teachings simply and literally?When I bring up some of His teachings, sometimes, people tell me I'm being judgmental, but truly I'm not. I know the poke your eye out if it causes you to sin is a spiritual teachings-meaning get yourself away from tempting sin as hard as you can. What about the other teachings? Like allow people to steal from you, give to everyone who asks, love your enemies, etc.Aren't we supposed to literally follow Him and do what He says, because Jesus says, "why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not the things I say?" Luke 6:46.I thought we are supposed to, and I am going to whether people say we shouldn't follow Him or not, but I am a little down that some others think I am so judgmental everytime I quote Jesus.Can anyone encourage me about obedience to Jesus's words? ?

Thank you, I am encouraged by that. Yes, only the blood of Jesus makes wicked sinners righteous before a holy God. It takes the power of God to even draw us close to Him.

How obedient do we have to be if Jesus is our Lord?One of the most convicting statements I ever read was made by Dr. James Kennedy: (this is a paraphrase) "You cannot say 'No, Lord' and mean both words, they are mutually exclusive."Are we to take His words and teachings simply and literally?Yes. We needn't be irrationally literal, if something's a parable it's a parable, but I don't think any of us here exhibit excessive literalist tendencies.When I bring up some of His teachings, sometimes, people tell me I'm being judgmental, but truly I'm not.What do they/you mean by "judgmental"?A friend of mine has a good tract on Biblical judgment, I'll borrow from it here. There is a sense in which we are not only permitted, but commanded to judge:Psalm 3730 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.Psalm 11913 With my lips have I declared all the judgments of Thy mouth.Proverbs 319 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.Luke 743 Simon answered and said, "I suppose that he to whom he forgave most. And He said unto him, "Thou hast rightly judged."Ezekiel 222 "Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? Yea, thou shalt show her all her abominations.1 Corinthians 215 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged by no man.î1COR 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.1 Corinthians 62 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?1 Corinthians 63 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?John 724 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."There is also Scripture that tells us how not to judge, some of which is often misconstrued to mean we should not judge at all. Matthew 7:1 particularly, I've noticed we (when we preach open-air) get that almost every single day.Matthew 71 "Judge not, that ye be not judged.2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged; and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, `Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye,' and behold, a beam is in thine own eye?5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.Clearly, this is speaking of hypocritical judgment, i.e. judging others for something you yourself are guilty of (and in a more general sense, e.g. if a man is a wanton sinner that happens to not steal, he would not be particularly qualified to judge thieves even then). If you are guilty of sin, wholeheartedly repent and seek God, and only when God has cleansed you of whatever it was, should you consider yourself fit to judge.Romans 143 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him that eateth not, judge him that eateth; for God hath received him.4 Who art thou who judgest another man's servant? To his own master he standeth or falleth; yea, he shall be held up, for God is able to make him stand.5 One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.6 He that regardeth one day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not that day, to the Lord doth he not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not and giveth God thanks.7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord. Whether we live therefore or die, we are the Lord's.9 For to this end Christ both died, and arose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? Or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.This is about things like dietary preferences, not willful known sin, if people are walking in darkness or otherwise committing grave errors, I don't think this passage applies directly.Romans 21 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art who judgest; for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself, for thou that judgest doest the same things.2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who commit such things.3 And thinkest thou this, O man, who judgest those who do such things and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?Again, it's against hypocritical judgment. Again, live what you preach or be prepared for a very unpleasant Judgment Day.James 411 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law and judgeth the law. But if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. If someone is in right relationship with God (i.e. a "brother") and without willful sin in their life, we have no grounds to judge them harshly. If they're living in willful known sin, they're not in right relationship with God.In all this we should obviously seek and pray to God that He give us the proper (loving, discerning, not too soft, not too severe) spirit in judging (or anything else, for that matter). This is very non-trivial, at least for me, as at times I have a dangerously sharp tongue. That's not necessarily bad (and if we are too soft we may not be able to cut even when it's the right thing) but it requires very careful wielding or great harm can be done. Oh, that the Lord would keep my spirit clean of any impurity...I know the poke your eye out if it causes you to sin is a spiritual teachings-meaning get yourself away from tempting sin as hard as you can.Clearly Jesus wasn't advocating self-mutilation, but I think it's safe to say that if (somehow, I can't imagine it) one were literally in the situation where the only way they could avoid falling into sin (and thus being thrown into hell) was cutting off their hand or plucking out their eye, it would obviously be the better decision for them to cut off/pluck out the offending part. Again, I can't imagine what situation would entail that, but if the situation is literal than the teaching is literally applicable.What about the other teachings? Like allow people to steal from you, give to everyone who asks, love your enemies, etc.If it's just oneself (no family or other dependants) I'd say those apply literally. If you've got children, a spouse or other people in your care I'm inclined to think a bit more protectively, but I think that's fueled more by my sense of duty and sentimentality than Scripture.Aren't we supposed to literally follow Him and do what He says, because Jesus says, "why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not the things I say?" Luke 6:46.Yes. He's referring to a general obedience of His commandments, so there might be cases where we might, for example, take extra precautions against theft in order to supply some dire need of the impoverished, but the point is to obey Jesus.I thought we are supposed to, and I am going to whether people say we shouldn't follow Him or notGood. Let the others mull over the question of whether it is right for you to please them or to please God.but I am a little down that some others think I am so judgmental everytime I quote Jesus.We have a mighty and weighty responsibility, as ambassadors of Christ. If God has given us the purity, knowledge, discernment and so on to judge, we have the right (and responsibility) to do so when it is according to His will, but we must be completely obedient; meaning that we must obey not only in judging when it is right, but also in the manner that is right, in terms of attitude, spirit, etc.I don't know your situation, but I get the impression you're running into problems with people who are living contrary to Jesus' commands, and don't take well to being told about it. Seek and pray to God for guidance, and for the right spirit, and that He open their ears and eyes to hear and see, and soften their hearts to His Word. But whatever their reaction, always obey God. Be theistically motivated, meaning that you do it because God wants you to, rather than humanistically motivated, doing it because humans like it.Can anyone encourage me about obedience to Jesus's words?I hope I have, and I'm glad that you're seeking to do right in this matter, rather than plowing on ahead judging possibly unrighteous judgment, or just ceasing to bother in the face of discouragement. I'd quote more Scripture, but it's a bit late and I probably shouldn't put the entire Bible in one post :)

Thank you, KeithLaMothe, that is encouraging. I am so glad to hear someone say take all of Jesus words as they are. Yes, I will not let discouragement let me fall, but it is nice to get encouragement from others once in a while. Even if I don't get it from others, though, God is the only one I want to please anyway. Thanks again.The judgmental comment comes up more than I thought it would, and the last time was from my post that I have copied here, about Biblical Christian leadership. I posted it on another website, and one of the regulars there said I was going off God's path, and being judgmental. I talked to her about that, and have settled it peacefully even after I told her Jesus' teachings should not offend her, a christian, like they seemed to be. I was just surprised how "judgmental" is thrown around for even general statements and warnings made by Jesus. But Jesus words encourage me, "woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets." Luke 6:26.

I was just surprised how "judgmental" is thrown around for even general statements and warnings made by Jesus.If someone (in their heart) thinks Jesus is "judgmental," they'll think the same of someone quoting Him."Legalistic" is another very common accusation when one doesn't hold back on exhortation. Interestingly, the terms "legalism" and "legalistic" do not occur in the KJV or NASB (once in the NIV). Also, as I understand it, Jesus' problem with the Pharisees is not primarily their focus on obeying the Law, but their hypocrisy in preaching obedience and not being obedient themselves. For a clearer picture, see Jesus' treatment of Nicodemus (John 3, as you all know). There is a form of legalism that deserves rejection, namely the idea that our obediance to God's Law somehow puts Him in debt to us or otherwise earns us anything, but there is a tremendous amount of room for "discipline" in the Christian life.I'm not yet sure, but I think that those who object loudest to exhortation have a basically different faith than I do: if there's something not right about my relationship with God, or something in my life not pleasing to Him, or anything else He wants of me, I want to know. If someone else believes, according to Scripture and prompted by the Holy Spirit, that I or my congregation is in need of an exhortation, I want to hear it. Certainly there's the chance that they're wrong, and it's something which must be done in the right spirit and with much discernment, but I don't mind the occaisional "false positive," I certainly prefer it to not knowing about a problem. Our God is a consuming fire, who chastens and disciplines us when necessary. Let us not be surprised when we discover that He wasn't kidding.May His will be done in all of us, as it is in Heaven,-Keith

I for one have found that the word "legalism" and the phrase "don't judge" have become very common among Christians. It seems to me that they have become the failsafe for not wanting to deal with sin, mixture and compromise in our lives. You can try to teach, admonish and exhort others with the scriptures as to why Christians should not do or be part of certain things and if they don't want to receive it then they cry legalism or say that you are being judgmental.After I hear that there is really nothing more to say because it shows me that the person wants to hold onto their sin.That is just from my own experiences.In Christ,Mike

As soon as I read this the passage came to mind that says "where there is no vision the people perish." The actual Hebrew says "Where there is no prophetic unction the people cast off all restraint!" No wonder the enemy wants us to walk in disobedience. The power is in the holiness. When people don't sense God active in the midst of the people they sin with a high hand. We contribute to this by our disobedience and secret sins as God pulls out of our midst as He did in Ezekiel 8-10. And as He pulls out due to the secret sins the congregation casts off restraint.When we are FULLY submitted to the King of the Kingdom of God- the enemy has no recourse to say to God... "Why should I obey him (God's servant)- he don't obey you!?" When we are in total obedience God can exercise total authority through us unhindered by our disobedience. Not an occasional sovereign miracle that makes us think were in like flint with God; but a perpetual burden to walk with Christ in obedience to the King of the Kingdom so that the enemy is forced to take us seriously. You do that and I guarantee you the devil will know you on a first name basis. Paul I know and Jesus I know, but who are you? Not if you have exalted Christ as genuine Lord of your life. I think of what our brother quoted concerning D. James Kennedy and wonder if instead of the damned saying "Lord, Lord"- the just must say "Yea and Amen- Lord!" Speak Lord for thy servant heareth! And then they hop to it and get about the Master's business. When we make the King "THE KING" in our life- we begin to exercise kingdom authority as Christ's ambassadors in a very real way. The Kingdom of God is among us when there are people present who have exalted Christ as King in their life. This links with the whold concept of the 'finger of God.' God's authorty is present when we exalt Him into supreme authority. Obviously He can act sovereignly; but the Children of the Kingdom submit to the King and when that happens the finger of God is present. That is my quest- to exalt Christ as King through my total submission to His Lordship. And if we will do that it has yet to be seen what God would do through such a yielded and obedient person. Beloved, is it possible to be overly obedient to Christ? Christ answered this himself when he said "And after you have done all that you were told to do say 'we are unprofitable servants, we have merely done our duty!" (Luke 17:10) When revival comes to our lives in New Testament fashion we will obey Christ no matter what we are told to do. We are dead. We are slaves. We have no will but Christ's when we have died to self. As Leonard Ravenhill said "May we all go to our own funeral at night and die to self..." I on a guest to walk in such complete obedience to God that my disobedience ceases once and for all from being a hindrance to what He has long desired to do in His purchased servant's life.God Bless,-Robert

Mike (5nva),I second that! I have heard the word "judgemental" more times than I would like to recall. You're exactly right, when they say this, I just quit trying to talk to them about certain things (at least for the time being) because I know where they are and they don't want to "let go". I just keep praying that the Lord will open their eyes and their ears to the truth- because no amount of convincing from me is going to work.I have learned that obedience is also doing that which the Lord has opened your eyes to. Once you "know" that something is wrong for you- then it is your responsibility to follow through. (I am talking here about the minors, not the majors- the things we all know we should do)As time goes on and we grow in Christ, if we are listening and learning, the Lord reveals little things (or big things) one by one that He wants us to obey in. It might not be for someone else at that time. And maybe it wasn't considered disobedience last year- because your eyes weren't open to that yet.The Lord showed me last year that He did not want me to workout at a co-ed gym. Once I 'knew" that this was His will for me- I would have been disobeying if I continued to go. Now, this is not for everyone, this is not even for every woman. I cannot tell any Christian I meet that goes to a co-ed gym, that they are being disobedient because that is for me at this time. The Lord maybe working on 5 others things in that persons life that are more important for them to obey in at that time.If we are in a place of complete surrender, we will be sensative to what the Holy Spirit is saying and in what ways/areas we are to be obedient in.I think we all can testify that as we have grown in maturity, we have become more obedient about more and more things as time has gone on and as the Lord has revealed things to us.My heart grieves for those who will not open up to the Lord and say "do what you will". For they will never know the smaller- detailed areas where the Lord wants them to be obedient. Actually, the chances are, that they are not being obedient in the bigger, more obvious areas either. :(Just some thoughts...Satisfied in Him, Chanin

That's a good point: be careful to distinguish private convictions from general commands. Churches and movements have split over people with "God-told-me-to-stop-this-in-my-life-so-He-must-mean-it's-sin-for-all-of-us" type attitudes.The key thing is "Does the Bible back this up? For everyone, or just people in certain circumstances?"I'd ramble on about this, but I've got to study for a final.May God guide us, that we not cut closer than we ought, that we not fail to exhort where we ought, that we always obey Him in everything,-Keith

Oh Praise God!Just a few minutes ago, coming out of prayer this was all just welling up in me. Started to write out something on "Conformed into the image of His Son". I only have a start and it became disjointed because of the excitment that I was feeling. Then I started reading all these excellent replys, right along the same lines...you all do such a wonderful job.I for one have found that the word "legalism" and the phrase "don't judge" have become very common among Christians. It seems to me that they have become the failsafe for not wanting to deal with sin, mixture and compromise in our lives. You can try to teach, admonish and exhort others with the scriptures as to why Christians should not do or be part of certain things and if they don't want to receive it then they cry legalism or say that you are being judgmental.And as Chanin alluded to it is with sadness not a smarmy, 'better than' attitude. Some of the blame I think can be put on poor preaching and teaching, but definetly agree that when someone is jumping to defend themselves in this way I can only ask why? Would you be so agitated if you didn't have something to hide?That is my quest- to exalt Christ as King through my total submission to His Lordship. And if we will do that it has yet to be seen what God would do through such a yielded and obedient person. Beloved, is it possible to be overly obedient to Christ? Christ answered this himself when he said "And after you have done all that you were told to do say 'we are unprofitable servants, we have merely done our duty!" (Luke 17:10) When revival comes to our lives in New Testament fashion we will obey Christ no matter what we are told to do. We are dead. We are slaves. We have no will but Christ's when we have died to self. As Leonard Ravenhill said "May we all go to our own funeral at night and die to self..." Yes! A thousand times yes! I have absolutely no doubt and can hardly comprehend what the Lord would do with even just one completely lovingly obedient vessel, let alone an army! Talk about your 'Dawn of the Dead'!Certainly there are some here who are well on their way towards this. It seems to be a 'Spiritual bootcamp' around here with so many encouraging one another to press onto perfection. To dig deep and cast out the unclean thing.To live Holy lives, not before men, but before God and then our witness would be without words.This is as far as I had gotten,I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. Joh 5:30Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Heb 1:9*I took a break to gather my thoughts, picked up the newspaper and was struck down by something I read. See What will it profit a man

I can definatley related to being judged by others because of obedience. Two ideas come to mind, "No Compromise" and "Obedience to Jesus's words out of Love for Christ". If you love Me, you will obey my commands. We should not have to fear what others say to us if we are doing "such and such" if it is holy and in obedience to God's Word. I was in a situation once (a cult) where we were obeying a standard in God's word, and looked down at other Christians if they were not doing it and judging them. We actually believed that they were not saved. Spiritual Pride our small church group once had. I have years ago repented of this and now do not believe that all Christians should do such and such, or not. If we believe thought that a truth is right and should be lived out we should not give in if we are being judged by other people and Christians too. This is "No Compromsie". Stand strong on your convictions in spite of persecution.Grace,Doug

Mike,Certainly there are some here who are well on their way towards this. It seems to be a 'Spiritual bootcamp' around here with so many encouraging one another to press onto perfection. To dig deep and cast out the unclean thing.I think the Lord is doing something here. Today in my prayer time I wrote out the "Day of Refinement" knowing i would post whatever He said.Praise God, I see He is giving this message to a few of us and it is building into something. I went through this type of thing in 2002 by myself- but now I see where it is being used for 'corporate' cleansing too. :-) In Him, Chanin

I remember ~15 years ago agonizing all day long over the hard sayings of Jesus--like unless you sell everything you cannot be his disciple.No one else seemed to be bothered by such words. And there are many such things which Jesus said--things that seem 'radical'--like you would be a cultist if you actually obeyed them.I concluded that I wanted to try to keep this command by living a simple life and not trying to become rich. This same desire to obey Jesus led me to convert a woman from a religion that was hostile towards Christ. I watched her lose her parents respect and love...I watched them seize her bank account. I watched them kidnap and take her to India to be married to a stranger. I watched God stop the marriage--as if by miracle. I took this all to mean that she was to be my wife.Long story short...she now makes tons of money...so it is nearly impossible for me to obey Jesus' command, unless I divorce her (which I won't). I have nearly lost my faith in the Bible due in great part because of this marriage.I don't get it! Why would God do this? I hope you can all see how this relates to the topic at hand.Sincerely, Calbert

I remember ~15 years ago agonizing all day long over the hard sayings of Jesus--like unless you sell everything you cannot be his disciple.No one else seemed to be bothered by such words. And there are many such things which Jesus said--things that seem 'radical'--like you would be a cultist if you actually obeyed them.I concluded that I wanted to try to keep this command by living a simple life and not trying to become rich. This same desire to obey Jesus led me to convert a woman from a religion that was hostile towards Christ. I watched her lose her parents respect and love...I watched them seize her bank account. I watched them kidnap and take her to India to be married to a stranger. I watched God stop the marriage--as if by miracle. I took this all to mean that she was to be my wife.Long story short...she now makes tons of money...so it is nearly impossible for me to obey Jesus' command, unless I divorce her (which I won't). I have nearly lost my faith in the Bible due in great part because of this marriage.I don't get it! Why would God do this? I hope you can all see how this relates to the topic at hand.Sincerely, Calbert

I remember ~15 years ago agonizing all day long over the hard sayings of Jesus--like unless you sell everything you cannot be his disciple.His instruction to the rich young ruler is not necessarily normative, the rich man cared so much about wealth that it had become an idol (when faced with a choice between obeying Jesus and keeping his wealth, he chose the wealth). Not all Christians have to sell everything they have after they convert, though if it's been an idol in their lives it may be necessary to truly disentangle themselves from their previous sin.Personally I live on fairly little, and give the rest away, but God did not command me to go to the degree I have.No one else seemed to be bothered by such words. And there are many such things which Jesus said--things that seem 'radical'--like you would be a cultist if you actually obeyed them.I concluded that I wanted to try to keep this command by living a simple life and not trying to become rich.It's a good idea to live simply, there's quite a number of examples down through the ages (John Wesley comes to mind, in particular).This same desire to obey Jesus led me to convert a woman from a religion that was hostile towards Christ. I watched her lose her parents respect and love...I watched them seize her bank account. I watched them kidnap and take her to India to be married to a stranger. I watched God stop the marriage--as if by miracle. I took this all to mean that she was to be my wife.Not an unreasonable conclusion. However, I think it's wise to let new converts have a couple years or so with the Lord and without the intense distraction of that kind of love. Did she persevere in her faith?Long story short...she now makes tons of money...so it is nearly impossible for me to obey Jesus' commandI don't think I understand which command you're referring to, as there's a great deal of difference between a preferable state and a commanded state. Also, why is it impossible? I'm sure there's God-centered people trying to reach the lost and those in need (particularly in undeveloped/developing areas of the world) that could definately use financial blessing to continue their work. Or are you referring to the temptation?unless I divorce her (which I won't).Good, it would be sin to do so. I have nearly lost my faith in the Bible due in great part because of this marriage.Why? Because you think it commands you to live in poverty? It doesn't. Again, I don't think I understand what command you're having difficulty obeying.I don't get it! Why would God do this?He's got good reasons, I assure you.I hope you can all see how this relates to the topic at hand.Yes: we obey God, no matter what. If we find ourselves in continuing disobediance to Him, the very meaning of our lives (not to mention fate) hangs by a tenuous thread.Thank you for sharing your troubles, I hope I can be of some help; I'm just not sure exactly what the problem is.God's grace be with you all,-Keith

Not all Christians have to sell everything they have after they convert, though if it's been an idol in their lives it may be necessary to truly disentangle themselves from their previous sin.Actually I was thinking more about Luke 14:33 which makes it more of a general command to disciples. To get my point, just substitute in for Jesus' words what you said in the quote above...would that sound pretty different to the hearers? I am not trying to make anyone out there DO THIS--it is HARD!In a Nutshell...faithwise, this marraige has not helped me to believe more in the Bible but less. The real downhill was when we attended a Calvinistic church, and I had to somehow explain that this all made sense to my wife that most of her family was just 'not chosen' for heaven.My faith hangs by a thread...but I just don't understand why God would have put me into a situation where my faith would become weaker...after all, I was trying to OBEY HIM in this whole matter!

Luke 1433 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be My disciple.Wesley's explanatory notes:So - Like this man, who, being afraid to face his enemy, sends to make peace with him, every one who forsaketh not all that he hath - 1 By withdrawing his affections from all the creatures; 2 By enjoying them only in and for God, only in such a measure and manner as leads to him; 3 By hating them all, in the sense above mentioned, cannot be my disciple - But will surely desist from building that tower, neither can he persevere in fighting the good fight of faith.I think there's a difference between "forsaking" and "throwing away," when the thing itself has legitimate use. All the evil or questionable things should be out the window, and everything else should be yielded up to God to do with as He pleases. We should offer everything to Him, as Abraham offered Isaac. God didn't take Isaac, you see, but Abraham was willing to offer him. If God asks us for anything we have, we should be immediately disposed to give it to Him, but this is not equivalent with throwing all His blessings out the window.I'd like to hear other opinions on the verse, it is one of the more striking in the whole Bible. It'd be something to put that on a banner and carry it around while preaching, people'd get woken up if they had half a conception of what it meant.Thank you for reminding me of the radical nature of being a disciple of Jesus Christ, may we all have knowledge of what it means to die to self, take up our cross, and follow Him daily.In a Nutshell...faithwise, this marraige has not helped me to believe more in the Bible but less.Because God has blessed you financially, and you can't get rid of it fast enough? The real downhill was when we attended a Calvinistic church, and I had to somehow explain that this all made sense to my wife that most of her family was just 'not chosen' for heaven.Whether or not we believe in the Calvinistic interpretation of predestination and election (I'm inclined towards it, to be honest), we must remember that God is Just and Good, and that we have no right whatsoever to go to Heaven. God would have been perfectly justified in sending every single one of us to hell, but He chose mercy for those that would believe. Her living family members still have a chance, too.My faith hangs by a thread...but I just don't understand why God would have put me into a situation where my faith would become weaker...after all, I was trying to OBEY HIM in this whole matter!I feel, to some degree, your agony. Ever since my conversion I've been eagerly (often desperately) asking Him to make me what He wants me to be, to make me Christlike, to cleanse me totally from all possibility sin (even this free-will business, if He wouldn't mind, but He does). I haven't quite received all that, but God has been immeasurably faithful and has continued working in my life in the way He deems best (there's also my stubbornness, which is largely at fault).Above all, obey, serve, and love God; not because it'll get you to Heaven, not because it'll keep you out of hell, not because of any temporal or eternal benefit to yourself, but because God deserves your obediance, service, and love.Prayers are going up for you.

Carlos & KeithAbove all, obey, serve, and love God; not because it'll get you to Heaven, not because it'll keep you out of hell, not because of any temporal or eternal benefit to yourself, but because God deserves your obediance, service, and love.I second that!This is one of my all time favorite sayings!!!~Chanin

Be of Good Cheer Brother!Consider this passage:1 Timothy 6:17-1917Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. 19In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life. I have a teaching on covetousness that I will be uploading tomorrow that covers this topic pretty well. Zacheas was not required to sell "ALL" that he had of Christ and he was a rich man. He willingly gave the half of his goods. Jesus did not press him to give 100%. Are there genuine believers that are rich in this world? Yes! What are they to do with their wealth? Are you generous? Willing to share? When you see a need to you close the bowels of your compassion? Do you trust in these riches? As Keith pointed out, are they an idol? Are you covetous? These are sins. You cannot simply take one or two passages of scripture and formulate the whole counsel of God on wealth. What does God say from Genesis to Revelation? It may be the words of Christ you are quoting, but the whole Canon is God breathed. Did not the Holy Spirit inspire the writers of the Gospel to write what words the Holy Spirit wanted in the canon? It is all profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness.As for Calvinism who can say who are the elect in this life? Who knows but God who's names are written in the book? This is why we preach the Gospel. it is not for me to know who is elect or not- I simply am here to cast the net. Christ will seperate the sheep from the goats!Be strong in the Lord my brother! The enemy is trying to SIFT (Greek 'riddle') your faith. We all go through these things. the devil knows the word of God better than any human who ever lived other than Christ and he knows how to riddle our faith with questions. You will get through this time if you trust Christ! It is my prayer that your faith fail you not! Call me collect if you need to! After 9:00 PM Central Time God Bless,-Robert