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"COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE"

S
sscr01 Aug 10, 2007

The Apostle Paul wrote, "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas (Peter); and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

"For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?" 1 Cor 1-3.

"For where envying and strife is, there is confusion (as at Babel), and every EVIL work." Ja 3:16.

The denominational system, was never God's plan, but, man's carnal attempt to control the Gospel with his various traditions. The Scripture refers to this Catholic/Protestant religious system, as the "Mother of harlots." Rev 17.

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world, is enmity with God? Whosoever will be the friend of the world, is the ENEMY of God." Ja 4:4.

The prophets, Jesus, His disciples, and God-fearing Christians, have been tortured and martyred for the Gospel, down through the centuries. It is said, that, there were more Christian martyrs in the 20th century, than, in all other centuries combined. Even as we speak, our brethren are suffering for their faith.

So, why aren't we suffering persecution in the USA? Perhaps, because, we are no longer, a serious threat to the powers of darkness. Have we forgotten, that, we are in a spiritual warfare with Satan, having eternal consequences?

Christian comedy, entertaining sermons, politically-correct sermons, fund-raising from the pulpit? Milk, rather, than strong meat? When did Jesus and His disciples participate in such things? They were martyred for preaching the Gospel.

Do you love Him enough to be martyred for Him?

The signs of the end are upon us. It is time to surrender our various church traditions, and cleave to God's Word, alone. I have found, that, most error results from incomplete study of the Scripture. The entire reference for ever doctrine is Genesis-Revelation.

Let us imitate the Bereans: "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind, searching the Scriptures, daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11.

The Greek word for church, is "ekklesia," which, is defined as, "called-out ones." The Lord has, always, had a remnant people.

"And I heard another Voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." Rev 18:4,5.

Do you hear His Voice?

Jesus said, "My sheep hear my Voice and I know them and they follow me." John 10:27.

sermonindex Aug 10, 2007

Much to comment on, many serious comments made that need to be elaborated on more if any wants to join in this thread.

In Christ - Jim

S
sojourner7 Aug 10, 2007

The Lord desires a people for His own
possession; sanctified for His glory,
His kingdom, and His purpose!!
The Lord will shake the tree of denomin-
ations down to its very root. If it
is not found to abide in the Vine; it will
be cast aside. Only the true fruit will
remain. Learn the lesson of the fig tree!! :-D

S
Swordbearer Aug 10, 2007

The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make His paths strait!!
O generation of vipers-religious leaders-who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance-ye shall know them(the people of God) by their fruits-and begin not to say within yourselves, we have Abraham for our father("I made a "decision" for Christ __ years ago")
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees; every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

It seems as though the greatest problem Jesus Christ faced on this earth was the religious establishment. Or perhaps, the devil working through the religious leaders. "Ye are of your father the devil, [i]and the lusts of your father ye will do[/i]"

If the Son of man were to return to the earth in a body of flesh, what sort of reception would He receive? Think of the preaching of Christ:
"Ye are the salt of the earth, but if the salt have lost his savor wherewith shall it be salted? It is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men."
"Ye CANNOT serve God and mammon"(be materialistic)
"Whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he CANNOT be my disciple"
"Many are called, but few are chosen"

The question is clear; when the Son of man returns, will He find faith on the earth? Or does He find the "Christians" fullfiling the lusts of the flesh, and fighting and warring amongst one another?
(Rev 3:15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

(Rev 3:16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.

(Rev 3:17) Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

(Rev 3:18) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eye salve, that thou mayest see.

Oh, that we would we leave the wretchedness of our religious systems and cling to Christ! Do we preach the cross, or do we defend our doctrines?
Pure doctrine is vitally important, terribly important, but so often we are simply defending a doctrine and not bringing glory to Christ.
[b]Looking unto Jesus;[/b] let us buy of Him gold tried in the fire![b]

B
BrokenOne Aug 10, 2007

Excerpts from Escape From Churchianity – Chip Brogden

An intellectual Christianity is what Organized Religion brings. It cannot impart Life. What do I mean by an intellectual Christianity? It is the ABC Gospel. Perhaps you have heard it. Salvation is obtained in three easy steps: "A" stands for "admit you are a sinner"; "B" stands for "believe on the Lord Jesus to save you"; and "C" stands for "confess Jesus as your personal Savior." What is wrong with that? Simply this: there is no Life there. "ABC" will not save us. With "ABC" there is no encounter with Jesus, Who alone is Life. There is only an intellectual acceptance and affirmation of what is presented as "Three Easy Steps". I believe this, I say that, and that makes me a Christian, right? No, it just makes you religious. There are many people who "get religion", but they don't get Jesus.

Organized Religion can bring doctrine, teaching, and belief. Some of it may be morally excellent and good. Some of it may even sound Biblical, like "Three Easy Steps". Nevertheless, Organized Religion cannot impart Life. Why? Because it has no Life to give. Jesus Christ is the Life. And Jesus does not live within the matrix of Organized Religion. He gives HIMSELF. How can any man, organization, or movement claim to give away another man, much less impart the very Life of Jesus Christ? Only Jesus can give Himself as our Life.

You see, then, that the most anyone can do is point people to Jesus as the sole Source of Life. They may contact Life through us, but we cannot give them Life. To those bound by Organized Religion, Jesus cries "You search the Scriptures, because you think in them you have Life. You are content to read about Me, but you will not come to Me that you may have Life (John 5:39,40, paraphrased)." Come to Me! Not, "Memorize these Three Easy Steps and attend the Church of your choice this Sunday." Come to Me! He is Life.

Organized Religion has caused Christianity to morph into Churchianity, a gospel which is easy to believe in but progressively more difficult to live up to.

If God would grant you a moment by His side and allow you a fleeting glance at His Church you would at once understand what a pitiful substitute we have in Organized Religion. There is no vanity so deep as religious vanity, nothing more sickening and diametrically opposed to the heart and ultimate purpose of God.

And we who are in Christ Jesus ARE seated with Him in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6).

If God is pleased to grant you this vision of His Church then you will come to appreciate it as a blessing and a curse. A blessing, because to see things as He sees them is true Wisdom and Oneness with Him and His people. A curse, because to see things as He sees them will ruin you for life, for you will never again be able to accept the surrogate, the counterfeit, even the good, at the expense of the Holy. His Church, His Treasure, how holy and pure and wonderful and unspeakable it is! Before you would casually call this thing and that thing "church" just like everyone else does and find it socially acceptable, but now your skin will crawl and your stomach will twist in knots when you hear others call some building the "house of God", knowing full well that His House is not this dead thing made with human hands!

S
sscr01 Aug 10, 2007

Jesus said, "Not every one that saith, Lord, Lord, shall ENTER into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven.

MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" ("Christians" do works in His name.)

And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (lawlessness). Matt 7:21-23.

"And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep his commandments. He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not his commandments, is a LIAR, and the Truth is not in him." 1 John 2:3,4.

James 2:10,11, tells us, that, if we break one of the commandments, we become transgressors of His law and are guilty of breaking all of them.

My dear brethren, that includes the fourth.

Jesus prophesied of the apostasy in the last days:

"And because iniquity (lawlessness) shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." Matt 24:12.

In the Book of Revelation, there are two churches represented:

In Rev 18:4,5, the Lord charges the "Mother of harlots," with, "sin," which, is the "transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), and "iniquity," which is "lawlessness."

When Jesus gave us the "Two Greatest Commandments," He was quoting the law. Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18.

These two are a summation of The Ten.

If you love the Lord, supremely, you will not worship or, bow down to other gods, take His name in vain, or, profane His holy day. Isa 58:13.

If you love your neighbour as yourself, you will honor your parents, do no murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, or, covet.

"By THIS we know that we love the children of God (#2), when we love God (#1) and keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2,3.

Not to those under the New Covenant, who have His Covenant (Deut 4:13) engraved upon their hearts and minds. Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10.

The Bride of Christ keeps His commandments:

"And the dragon (Satan) was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17.

"Here is the patience of the SAINTS: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12.

At the very end of the Book of Books, the Apostle John makes a connection between keeping His commandments, and entering Heaven:

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22"14.

sermonindex Aug 10, 2007

Just to add that the true "coming out of her" is spiritual, not physical.

If we "come out" of a church or Christian organisation, that we feel has too much of "Babylon" in it, without first having "come out" of our own personal inner "Babylon" then we are probably wasting our time.

Remember Lot's wife.

Jeannette

L
LoveHim Aug 10, 2007

thank you jeanette,

the question has to be asked of us...have we come out of babylon to the holy city Jerusalem?? do we still try to keep our life and have the best of God and man or have we been crucified to this world and been planted in Christ?? anyone can leave an institution to be still bitter and bound by babylon inside.. have we escaped babylon..spiritually as well??

just some thoughts.

C
CJaKfOrEsT Aug 11, 2007


sscr01 wrote:
The denominational system, was never God's plan, but, man's carnal attempt to control the Gospel with his various traditions. The Scripture refers to this Catholic/Protestant religious system, as the "Mother of harlots." Rev 17.

As one who is without denominational affiliation, may I ask where you would have us flee to? This is a practical question, based on the fact that many of the house churches that I have encountered are just as much (if not more) institutionalised than those with a building and a logo on the door.

Perhaps a better question to ask would be what is it about the denominational church that makes it the "Mother of Harlots"? Could the thing that we are missing be the "hiddenness" of the true church? Every group wrestles with the temptation to assert itself as the "remnant", saying that everyone else is at best "second class" or at worst "apostate".

Shouldn't church be about "peers being amongst peers" with each having their own specific function? What if we were to look [b]for[/b] the church [b]within[/b] the "church". Across every denomination I have met both true and false believers, who have varied greatly in the level and methods of objections against the official stances. Some amongst those that I would consider to be true have been ordained, and others have not, but both pretty much ignore this ordination, seeing it only as a tool serving a purpose, rather than the basis of asserting their own authority.

I agree, in part, with the earlier statement about the coming out not necessarily being physical. I personally spent two or three years as a "missionary to the institutional church", after I began to realise what real church is about. My physical departure only occurred because of functional issues, rather than doctrinal.

Now our small fellowship is struggling with the issue of temptation to focus on what's wrong with the church, rather than just getting on with it. When people leave the denominational structure it is common to be highly critical of what they left, in similar ways to how people demonise ex-boy/girlfriends after they break up with them.

It would be wise to be mindful of the parable of the "wheat and the tares" when wading into such and issue.

S
sscr01 Aug 11, 2007

When what is taught in my church, doesn't line up with Scripture, I speak up. Some get irritated, but, others encourage me.

It's about being in the system, but, not of the system - just as with the Bereans.

The Ecumenical Movement, sacrifices Scriptural doctrine for unity.

To the Bride of Christ, His Word, alone is life:

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us." John 1.

The Word of God - nothing more, and nothing less.

sermonindex Aug 11, 2007


CJaKfOrEsT wrote:

sscr01 wrote:
The denominational system, was never God's plan, but, man's carnal attempt to control the Gospel with his various traditions. The Scripture refers to this Catholic/Protestant religious system, as the "Mother of harlots." Rev 17.

As one who is without denominational affiliation, may I ask where you would have us flee to? This is a practical question, based on the fact that many of the house churches that I have encountered are just as much (if not more) institutionalised than those with a building and a logo on the door.

Perhaps a better question to ask would be what is it about the denominational church that makes it the "Mother of Harlots"? Could the thing that we are missing be the "hiddenness" of the true church? Every group wrestles with the temptation to assert itself as the "remnant", saying that everyone else is at best "second class" or at worst "apostate".

Shouldn't church be about "peers being amongst peers" with each having their own specific function? What if we were to look [b]for[/b] the church [b]within[/b] the "church". Across every denomination I have met both true and false believers, who have varied greatly in the level and methods of objections against the official stances. Some amongst those that I would consider to be true have been ordained, and others have not, but both pretty much ignore this ordination, seeing it only as a tool serving a purpose, rather than the basis of asserting their own authority.

I agree, in part, with the earlier statement about the coming out not necessarily being physical. I personally spent two or three years as a "missionary to the institutional church", after I began to realise what real church is about. My physical departure only occurred because of functional issues, rather than doctrinal.

Now our small fellowship is struggling with the issue of temptation to focus on what's wrong with the church, rather than just getting on with it. When people leave the denominational structure it is common to be highly critical of what they left, in similar ways to how people demonise ex-boy/girlfriends after they break up with them.

It would be wise to be mindful of the parable of the "wheat and the tares" when wading into such and issue.

We are gathered together unto Him

We are those who seek to follow the Lamb wherever He goes

We are those liberated in spirit, not to be "church-hoppers" but to "go in and out and find pasture" (John 10 - the word "find" means to come upon, happen upon) - even upon the barren mountains and desert places of the soul.

We are loyal to where He places us, whether in church, or nation, or home or relationships, but we are not part of that Babylonian system any more.

"Let he who has ears to hear, let him hear"

Blessings

Jeannette

L
LoveHim Aug 11, 2007

in my life, i am presently at the same institutionalized system that i grew up in. the difference is because of what God has done in me, i see what God's true church is (us believers) and what it is not (buildings, denominations, etc). this has given me freedom because i am not bound or limited by what "church" or demonination that i am a part of, but rather to seek to love, edify, rebuke, and encourage the true church. now fellowship is not limited to a day (sunday) or time (10:00 am) or place (in a building), but true fellowship in Christ happens all day and in any place where the believers are (in a house, park, store, on the street, etc).

since He has revealed to me what His church is, i am no longer bound by man's religion or man's systems. i don't care about programs, fads, and everything else that will be burned with the fire and found to be wood, hay, and stubble. i only care about Jesus the head, His church the body, and reaching others with the gospel of Christ. that is all that really matters.

in light of Christ, all other things just simply fade away.

sermonindex Aug 11, 2007

If any would find ourselves in of a church body that all has the same mind and one accord these days,I don't think we will find it all in the same physical location and if we did we would see instant revival in that unity.

When we look for the perfect church body of believers, as soon as we ourselves would be united there then would it be, at least through my eyes concerning myself. We should ask ourself the question if everyone in the body had the same heart as we did, what kind of church would that be?
However if one is for us to serve in a local body effectively and earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the saints there will be a great need for each of us to honestly be able to say Amen and be in agreement to a large percentage of what is exactly taught (doctrine)within the local body (church)in Bible Study,in what comes from the mouth of the prophet (preacher) in the pulpit. If one is filled with HIS SPIRIT there will be an unction to expose error when discovered. There is need for that to be done in love and respect in which I need much improvement.

I would ask the question not a statement, but is the harlot spoken about in the scriptures, is it the body that could be described as a group that everyone just content to serve and be a member and a part of even when they disagree and can plaining see false teaching?

One of the elements in the local body serving with others is called fellowship.

Question, Will we see the true harlot in full form when the UN controls the world and sets up the world church and it's doctrine? Have we only seen a small variation of the harlot as of now? Until then it is up to each of us to speak HIS TRUTH as the HOLY SPIRIT has revealed it to us with much fear and trembling and with no regard to our physical body.

It was the call in the early church and is now,the same call to HIS people, to be set apart, what ever the time and place may be.

Do we hear the drum roll of this event even now as we speak and do we hear the call of that harlot to be being religiously tolerant of error? I do not believe it our call to say how long before the birth of this event. Have we given sin a watered down names recently. What group is guilty of giving those watered down names? Have we labeled true christians as Pharisees, politically motivated,and accused them of having a holier than thou attitude.

Is there anyone who have lived, since they were saved, such a holy enough life, as to be pleasing to the Lord, and if there be any boasting, who would that boasting be about? We should be able to boast and when we do, it only be in HIM. Do we have a need to examine ourselves to see if this want-to at least for holiness exists in ourselves and do we recognize it is HIS SPIRIT within us that gives us the want-to in an effort to live a more pleasing life to HIM? DO others see that through Jesus's blood we have been given a different want-to than we once had to make us a witness?

Are we more or less effective in reaching the lost with HIS gospel with eticing words of wisdom or just speaking from the heart of HIS WORD that is hidden therein from our want-to?

S
sscr01 Aug 11, 2007

I have demonstrated in my posts, "Daniel, Revelation & World History Reveal The Antichrist," and "Revelation 13:11 - Protestant America," that, the "Mother of harlots," will be the system, used by The Antichrist.

If they are not archived on this site, they can be found on many others, including, www.prophecytalk.com. (I use "Herald," on most sites.)

Peter, "lovingly," counseled Jesus, that, He did not need to go to the cross. Jesus looked at him, and said, "Get thee behind me, Satan!"

When James and John thought, that, they would follow (denominational?) precedent, they wanted to call fire down from heaven (as Elijah had done) upon the Samaritans. Jesus looked at them and said, "Ye know not what spirit you are of!"

These disciples were with Jesus 24/7, but, when they trusted in their own understanding, they were used by Satan, who was trying to thwart the plan of God.

When Jesus said, that, one of them would betray Him, none of them knew who it was. Judas arose from within the ranks.

The greatest deception, is that, which, is the closest to the Truth.

The fourth commandment, contains, the three components of a seal: #1 His name, #2 His authority, #3 His domain. The fourth commandment is the SEAL of the Covenant.

So, what is the MARK of the Beast?

The "Little Horn," (Antichrist) "...thinks to change times and laws." Dan 7:25.

The Sabbath was "changed" to Sunday, at the Council of Laodicea, 364 A.D. He, only, "thinks to change," because, no man/institution can over-rule our Creator and change His law.

The, only, commandment in the Covenant (Deut 4:13), dealing with time and law, is the fourth, concerning the seventh day Sabbath.

"Question.-Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?"

"Answer.- Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her,-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority." - Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, p. 174.

"Of course the Catholic Church claims the change was her act...and the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters." Thomas, H.F., Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath.

"It's (Sunday's change for Saturday) the MARK of our authority to OVER-RULE God's law." Father Enright, C.S.S.R., President of Redemptorist College, History of the Sabbath, page 802.

"Sunday is our MARK of authority...The Church is ABOVE THE BIBLE, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923.

"The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, 'No! by my DIVINE power, I ABOLISH THE SABBATH DAY, and COMMAND YOU to keep holy the first day of the week. And, lo! The entire civilized world, BOWS DOWN in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church." Father Enright.

(Emphasis added)

A mark in the forehead, symbolizes worship. A mark in the hand, symbolizes service.

Constantine instituted the first Sunday law in 321 A.D. Constantine, a Christian? He was a sun worshipper. He had his brother-in-law, wife and eldest son murdered. He had a vision of the cross of Mithra (sun god), and heard a voice saying, "In this sign, conquer..."

Jesus never used the state to further the Kingdom of God. He said, that, His kingdom was not of this world, or else His servants would fight. He taught us to fight spiritual warfare for the souls of men.

In Revelation 17, a woman rides the Beast. Vatican City, has long used states to further her agenda. She is a country unto herself. That is why, nations send ambassadors to the city.

Many Protestants in America, think, that, they can use the state to get this nation back to God. They are making the same error.

The Lord wins hearts, and the rest follows.

Pope John Paul 11, Pat Robertson, and Jerry Falwell have called for re-instituting the Sunday, or, "Blue Laws." They are, still, on the books in 26 states. In Virginia, the third infraction meant death!

Does this sound far-fetched? How about a tree in the garden of Eden, determining the fate of all mankind?

Just as in the garden, it is a question of allegiance.

Is your allegiance to the "Mother of harlots"?

Or, is your allegiance to our Creator: Jesus (John 1:3), who sanctified and blessed the seventh day Sabbath at Creation.

He never changed, or, abolished it.

"Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: who forgiveth all thine iniquities (lawlessness); who healeth all thy diseases...As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed out transgressions (of the law) from us...TO SUCH AS KEEP HIS COVENANT, and to those that REMEMBER his commandments to do them." Ps 103.

Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15.

He is, only, Lord to those who obey Him.

sermonindex Aug 11, 2007

Hi Moe

Your last post was very interesting.

I roughed out some comments, but they are too long for one message - folks get tired of reading!

You said:

If any would find ourselves in of a church body that all has the same mind and one accord these days, I don't think we will find it all in the same physical location and if we did we would see instant revival in that unity.
You are right, it won’t be in any one location. For those who are “called out of Babylon” are scattered here and there throughout the world. The fellowship is in the Spirit, independent of geography.

Jeremiah 3:14 (perhaps slightly out of context, but I believe it applies to the present matter too)

[i][color=990000] 14 Return, O faithless children, says the Lord;
for I am your master;
I will take you, [u]one from a city and two from a family[/u],
and I will bring you to Zion.
[/color][/i]

It’s like the “7,000 who have not bowed the knee to Baal”. Elijah didn’t know of their existence until the Lord told him. He thought he was the only faithful one left!

Jezebel ruled the land, because she ruled her husband the king.
Jezebel is a “type” of the “Harlot” of Revelation. There is no record that she committed adultery against her husband, but her [i]spiritual[/i] harlotry was on a massive scale.

Revelation 2:

[i][color=990000]18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: ‘The words of the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and whose feet are like burnished bronze.
19 “‘I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first. 20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and beguiling my servants to practice immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. 21 I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her immorality. 22 Behold, I will throw her on a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her doings; 23 and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.[/color][/i]

But even in that unfaithful church there were those who had not bowed down to false gods.

[i][color=990000]24 But to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not learned what some call the deep things of Satan, to you I say, I do not lay upon you any other burden; 25 only hold fast what you have, until I come. 26 He who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, I will give him power over the nations, 27 and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received power from my Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star. 29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’[/color][/i]

Always the Promise is to “He who overcomes”

I believe that the visible church – of whatever grouping or denomination - is going to be drawn into “Babylon” in the end.

In Him

Jeannette


sermonindex Aug 11, 2007

When we look for the perfect church body of believers, as soon as we ourselves would be united there then would it be, at least through my eyes concerning myself. We should ask ourself the question if everyone in the body had the same heart as we did, what kind of church would that be?
Personally I wouldn’t ask that question. Why look for a “perfect church” when we are called to be “gathered together unto HIM”? All who are so gathered will be one in Christ, no matter what the flaws of the local church.

The tares grow amongst the wheat until the Harvest – let them grow.

[i][color=990000]“Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God.” [/color][/i](Luke 9:60)

However if one is for us to serve in a local body effectively and earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the saints there will be a great need for each of us to honestly be able to say Amen and be in agreement to a large percentage of what is exactly taught (doctrine)within the local body (church)in Bible Study,in what comes from the mouth of the prophet (preacher) in the pulpit. If one is filled with HIS SPIRIT there will be an unction to expose error when discovered. There is need for that to be done in love and respect in which I need much improvement.
Perhaps so. But, being in such a church, where there are various errors, (though the basics are mostly still believed and taught) I found that it isn’t always quite like that. The Lord more often [i]stops[/i] me saying anything, and it’s only rarely that He allows me to speak against error.
It seems that my work in this church at this time is simply to “BE”.

Of course, that may not be the same in every case. And there is need of boldness to speak Truth where needed.

I would ask the question not a statement, but is the harlot spoken about in the scriptures, is it the body that could be described as a group that everyone just content to serve and be a member and a part of even when they disagree and can plainly see false teaching?
Personally I am not at all content with the status quo. It seems I’m there as His servant and as a “silent witness” most of the time. The Lord has shown me some things about the church and where it’s at, but usually He doesn’t give permission to do anything except “watch and pray”. It’s a kind of waiting game at the moment, apparently.

Question, Will we see the true harlot in full form when the UN controls the world and sets up the world church and it's doctrine?
Maybe

Have we only seen a small variation of the harlot as of now?
Yes

Until then it is up to each of us to speak HIS TRUTH as the HOLY SPIRIT has revealed it to us with much fear and trembling and with no regard to our physical body.
Yes, but some kinds of speech aren’t in words. Ezekiel has been mentioned, in another thread I think. Much of the time he was dumb, and acted out his prophecies. But sometimes the Lord allowed him to speak words as well.

I wonder if his silent sermons were even more effective at the time than his spoken ones!

I used to think that if the Lord showed me something re the local church, or for an individual, then I had to immediately speak it, but often we have to wait His time. Or sometimes the Lord reveals things so we might pray about them only.

Although we should also be ready to act and/or speak if He so directs.

It was the call in the early church and is now, the same call to HIS people, to be set apart, what ever the time and place may be.

Do we hear the drum roll of this event even now as we speak and do we hear the call of that harlot to be being religiously tolerant of error?

Yes.

Jeremiah 4:
[i][color=990000]19 My anguish, my anguish! I writhe in pain!
Oh, the walls of my heart!
My heart is beating wildly;
I cannot keep silent;
for I hear the sound of the trumpet,
the alarm of war. 20 Disaster follows hard on disaster,
the whole land is laid waste.
Suddenly my tents are destroyed,
my curtains in a moment. 21 How long must I see the standard,
and hear the sound of the trumpet? 22 “For my people are foolish,
they know me not;
they are stupid children,
they have no understanding.
They are skilled in doing evil,
but how to do good they know not.”[/color]

In Him

Jeannette

sermonindex Aug 11, 2007


LoveHim wrote:
in my life, i am presently at the same institutionalized system that i grew up in. the difference is because of what God has done in me, i see what God's true church is (us believers) and what it is not (buildings, denominations, etc). this has given me freedom because i am not bound or limited by what "church" or demonination that i am a part of, but rather to seek to love, edify, rebuke, and encourage the true church. now fellowship is not limited to a day (sunday) or time (10:00 am) or place (in a building), but true fellowship in Christ happens all day and in any place where the believers are (in a house, park, store, on the street, etc).

since He has revealed to me what His church is, i am no longer bound by man's religion or man's systems. i don't care about programs, fads, and everything else that will be burned with the fire and found to be wood, hay, and stubble. i only care about Jesus the head, His church the body, and reaching others with the gospel of Christ. that is all that really matters.

in light of Christ, all other things just simply fade away.

AMEN!!!

sermonindex Aug 13, 2007

Personally I wouldn’t ask that question. Why look for a “perfect church” when we are called to be “gathered together unto HIM”? All who are so gathered will be one in Christ, no matter what the flaws of the local church.

The tares grow amongst the wheat until the Harvest – let them grow.

moe_mac wrote:
The point was in the post was for me to examine myself, not others. I think each one of us need to ask ourselves thus the point and evidently it was the femble attempt I made to convey that.
Of course, if I were in church leadership, then it would be ny responsibility to look at others and urge them through scripture with love if their need of restoration in the church body.
Yes, it is always best to wait until he gives us the words to speak. And yes at times, at least myself, I speak in the flesh ,although I strive not to.

sermonindex Aug 13, 2007

I just finished an A.W. Tozer marathon and he mentioned a few interesting points:

1. God is completely self-sufficient and cannot be any more or less fulfilled by any man, groups of men or our sects;

2. When a man or group fail to follow God He can and does move on to others that will;

3. God didn't send Pentacost to bring all believers together, He sent Pentacost after all believers were gathered in one place and were of one accord.

I'm not sure how this applies to this thread, but I think it does.

sermonindex Aug 14, 2007

cory wrote:
I just finished an A.W. Tozer marathon and he mentioned a few interesting points:

1. God is completely self-sufficient and cannot be any more or less fulfilled by any man, groups of men or our sects;

2. When a man or group fail to follow God He can and does move on to others that will;

3. God didn't send Pentacost to bring all believers together, He sent Pentacost after all believers were gathered in one place and were of one accord.

I'm not sure how this applies to this thread, but I think it does.

moe_mac
I haven't listened to Tozer and one would only have to look as far as Acts to see that one accord is a must for HIS SPIRIT to fall.

The problem with that is: getting everyone in one accord. In order to be in one accord, HIS ACCORD, we would have get past the things we want, do the things that HE wants and that requires doing things HIS way and not fitting the culture. There are any many things people aren't willing to give up or accept HIS WAYS because of not wanting to die to self and submit to HIS AUTHORITY, but continue to do it as we have always heard it and always done it.

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