Sermon Compilations: Copyright infrigement

Hello everyone,

Listen, I don't want to sound like a fanatic or a legalistic pharisee, and I really like the audio compilations (like revival hymn, and others). But the thing is, the songs in the background are copyrighted and they need permission and, I think that, in certain cases, royalties have to be paid to the author in order for the work to be included in the compilation.

But there is a legislation in the U.S. called "Fair Use" that, in certain cases, allows for the work to be used without permission.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_under_United_States_law]Here it is[/url]

Now, shouldn't we, as christians, obey the law?

If these comps infringe copyright, should we have them here? Because, there are plenty of freeware (christian and instrumental) songs that can be used in comps (e.g., Christ Our Life), so why should we use the copyrighted ones? And if we want to use the copyrighted ones, why not get permission? (I'm guessing permission wasn't asked for in these compilations)

(Note: I don't think christian songs should be copyrighted. I wish they all were free, but the fact is: they aren't, and we still have to obey the law)

There is an online test of "fair use". I did it and I don't think most compilations would pass on it because they use the entire songs in it.

[url=http://www.utsystem.edu/OGC/intellectualProperty/copypol2.htm#test]Fair use test[/url]

All I'm saying is that we should verify whether or not we're doing everything right.

Let's debate this. In love.

Doesn't anybody care about this? I think this is important. :-(

i sure people care about this, and i know it is important , so let the Holy Spirit do it's work in us. thanks for bring up this topic, Christian's should be beyond reproach..
love andy

Before I was saved I burned every music and software CD and DVD I came into contact with. So did my friends. We all knew it was illegal. Most everyone has seen or remembers the warnings on VCR and DVD movies. I believe most people are aware this is illegal.

I believe our Christian witness is damaged when we engage in burning more than a backup coping and distribution of them.

This is not legalism…it’s obedience to the Word.

As for the rights of use for background music I’m not sure many people know the law concerning it, I certainly don’t.

I could be wrong, but, I believe using sniplets of things are ok if they are for "educational purposes." Such is my understanding of the law, but, I could be wrong.

Reformer, from your post- I'm not sure you understand....
Sermonindex legally gets all their sermons (that's what their legal document says to my knowledge, I admit I read it very quickly). When people encourage you to make copies of their stuff... that is legal (because you have permission). This person hasn't attacked that at all.
We are to be obedient to the law. I am an open source proponent (that means I don't think software should be copywrited) and I'm all for freeing up the e-books. But I don't rebel against the law, I just support changes or prevent bad changes to it.
I'm not sure if they didn't get permission to make the compilations. I'd definitely like if someone would get on here that knows and clears it up.
But tjservant might be right also...
Boy do I wish that class in Intellectual Property Rights and Copyright had opened up at my college!

I'm pretty sure the original poster wasn't speaking about the sermons on SI, but about the compilations set to music.

When the compilations use entire songs for evangelistic purposes, I am hard-pressed to believe that the people who created these secular movie scores *cough - revival hymn, last of the Mahicans - cough* appreciate their work being used to propagate someone else's theology.

Love your neighbor as yourself?

I had Keith Green's songs on my site in a video format from youtube, set to images... I was convicted enough to pull them down until his record company gives the green light... even if Keith would have given them for free.

What a super good thread.
I am in 100% agreement with blinx.

(Also, most people don't realize that the same thing applies for YouTube videos. If a video is showing tv shows or clips of movies or has copyrighted background music, it is illegal.)

[b]I for one think the revival hymn should be taken down or permission granted to use the song.[/b]

1 Timothy 3:7
He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.

jimdied2sin wrote:
TITLE 17 > CHAPTER 1 > § 107Prev | Next § 107.

Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.

In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

[url=http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml]Cornell law library[/url]

Lets educate ourselves before we pick up our pitchforks and torches.

In Christ - Jim

None of these things apply to over 95% of YouTube videos.

You might want to re-read what you posted and consider what type of videos are on YouTube.

There is a reason YouTube has faced multi-million dollar copyright infringement lawsuits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_under_United_States_law

Read that before you continue your discussion.

I was talking about the background music, although, if a sermon is copyrighted, the same applies.

If we only use a small amount of the copyrighted work, and it is for non-profit and educational purposes I think it's considered Fair Use (we should do the fair use test to be sure).

On several sermon compilations, the authors use entire songs on them, not small amounts. That's not considered Fair Use (do the test), thus requiring permission.

Don't get me wrong: I think sermon compilations are very important and useful. But if it infringes copyright shouldn't we either get permission or take it out? Or even change it in order to respect copyright(for example, changing the background music)?. I agree with what a brother here said: we christians should be beyond reproach.

I think that even if the compilation is very good and helping many people to wake up, we shouldn't use it. Why? Because it's better to obey than to sacrifice.

Example: (God says we should obey the laws of men)
A church doesn't pay taxes in order to have more money to make an evangelistic cruzade. People are going to hell. Is it okay anyway? I don't think so. It's better to obey God than to sacrifice.

[b]I think we should encourage people (like, make a sticky thread or something) who are thinking of making comps to respect copyright because it's against the law. And they cause other people conscience problems. [/b]

I think we should have copyright in mind when we're making comps. I hope we can verify what compilations should or shouldn't be here. Because, as far as I am concerned, I cannot, in my good conscience, download compilations that infringe copyright.

Brother Jim: Sincerely and respectfully, I disagree with you about christian songs and articles being property of God. Because, although articles, sermons and songs can sometimes be inspired by the Holy Ghost they are man-made. I mean, the author isn't God. An article or a sermon is a human interpretation of the Word of God and it can be wrong. I know, idealistically, it may seem like that, but reality is different, in my opinion. Of course, sermons shouldn't be copyrighted, nor songs, nor articles, nor nothing! They should be free ("Freely you have received, freely give"). (Note: I don't include prophecy in this. If a prophet speaks a revelation from God, it sure isn't copyrighted)

(Brother Jim, I say this in love, 'cause I know sometimes when someone disagrees with us, we can get all defensive (I speak from experience) and the debate gets all fired up. I used to like that, now I hate it. I want to change, so I tried to speak as 'in love' as possible.)

You'd be better off to look here for information:
[url=www.copyright.gov]U S Copyright Law[/url]

If you feel that some compilations are infringing on copyright laws, don't listen to them. I'm sure Greg takes much prayerful care of what he puts on this website.