True Humility versus Self-Abasement

I wanted to get some advice from the brethren on true humility versus self-abasement (for lack of a better word).I'm praying for true humility and know that God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. The two great sins for believers in my view are pride and unbelief and almost every sin results from the root of these two sins.Here's my dilema. Sometimes I think I denigrate myself to the point that's it not really humility but a false sense of pride. I know that "Apart from me(Jesus speaking), you can do nothing" but I want to be rid of all false humility (e.g. you're such a moron, you're so foolish, etc.).I know the Holy Ghost searches our hearts as we allow Him to do so but could someone point me to scriptures talking about this false humility. I want to be free to serve and worship Him and I feel that there are some things that need to be purged by the fire in my heart.Thank you for any comments and suggestions you may have.

Ed,I've been there before- especially after I've been reading lot of books about humility and denying self. The best thing I have found is to put all the books down for a while and get back my balanced view- the one that the Holy Spirit gives.It is true we are to develop humility- which isn't going to all come over night- but also we are very special, unique and wonderful to the Lord.We are a special and peculiar people! :-) There is a difference between humility and humiliation. Humility is not recognizing that we are just garbage- but that if there is some good in us- that it comes from God alone :) We are valuable to Him but everything (our worth) comes from Him and in turn we offer our worth back to Him.I also think that humility is seen as a submissiveness, a yieldeness."our state of humility is seen, in other words, in how we accept rebukes, correction, criticism"I think it is hard for most who study this subject to come to a balance at first. It comes with time and the Holy Spirit's leading. I still struggle with it sometimes.Hope this helps a little.In Him, Chanin

I can't give you anything but my opinion on the issue, but here it is, for better or worse:Humility isn't 'thinking poorly of yourself.' It's 'not thinking of yourself at all.'Humility is one of those things that, once you think you have it, you probably don't. At its most perfect state (which none of us will ever reach), humility is giving absolutely zero thought to yourself and always thinking of the good of others.This obviously doesn't mean that we shouldn't think about bathing, eating, etc. That wouldn't be preferring your neighbor at all, if he had to deal with your body odor as a lack of bathing :)I hope I've helped.

I know the Holy Ghost searches our hearts as we allow Him to do so but could someone point me to scriptures talking about this false humility. I want to be free to serve and worship Him and I feel that there are some things that need to be purged by the fire in my heart.And the men of Ai smote of them about thirty and six men: for they chased them from before the gate even unto Shebarim, and smote them in the going down: wherefore the hearts of the people melted, and became as water. And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads. And Joshua said, Alas, O Lord GOD, wherefore hast thou at all brought this people over Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us? would to God we had been content, and dwelt on the other side Jordan! O Lord, what shall I say, when Israel turneth their backs before their enemies! For the Canaanites and all the inhabitants of the land shall hear of it, and shall environ us round, and cut off our name from the earth: and what wilt thou do unto thy great name? And the LORD said unto Joshua, Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face?(Joshua 7:5-10)This passage of Scripture came to mind. I don't really think Joshua was showing false humility here but I think the principle taught here can apply to those times when we tend to denigrate ourselves. I know sometimes I say those same things like, "you're such a fool" and from this passage above I hear the Lord say, "get thee up!". This is no time for complaint or inactive humility, this is time to take action and correct things. Sometimes something else needs to be done besides prayer and supplication. The Lord then told Joshua;Up, sanctify the people, and say, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow: for thus saith the LORD God of Israel, There is an accursed thing in the midst of thee, O Israel: thou canst not stand before thine enemies, until ye take away the accursed thing from among you.(Joshua 7:13)In Christ,Ron

Thanks so much for sharing,I went in a music store and looking at some CDs on Thursday and I purchased a CD which had a song that kind of struck me from Caedmon's Call called "I Boast No More." It's really been speaking to my heart this week.Ron, I think understand what you're saying. False humility will lead to inaction and unbelief. "Lord I'm such a ... and where are you in the midst of this?" Surely this is unbelief.It's not all clear in my mind and I'm going to take Chanin's advice. Sometimes I just need to be still in the Lord's presence and allow Him to lead me. I sometimes strive in the flesh to make up for lost time and sometimes the Lord rebukes me for that attitude. Longsuffering or patience is one of the fruits of the Spirit, something I need from time to time. :-DIf we don't have a teachable and correctable spirit, surely we're lacking humility. I just pray for guidance from the Word and thank you for the words of encouragement.Here's the song I referenced earlier.No More My God, I boast no more Of all the duties I have done I quit the hopes I held before, To trust the merits of Thy Son No more my God No more my God No more my God I boast no more Now, for the loss I bear his name, What was my gain I count my loss My former pride I call my shame And nail my glory to His cross Yes, and I must, I will esteem All things but loss for Jesus' sake O may my soul be found in Him And of His righteousness partake Amen, amen The best obedience of my hands Dares not appear before Thy throne But faith can answer Thy demands By pleading what my Lord has doneAfter seeing these words, all I can say is Amen.Ed

Hello,Humility is absolute obedience to all the Lord would ask, no matter what it appears to look like in the eyes of man. Therefore, one that is walking in humility, will often look proud or arrogant in the eyes of those that disagree with what they are doing. Like the Pharisees that would say about Jesus, "Who does He think He is, anyway?" Jesus did only what His Father told Him without question. False humility is when you are afraid to do what the Lord is asking, due to others thinking you are proud. Therefore, it can appear to look like humility, however it is absolute pride. It is disobedience, due to the fear of the opinions of man.Those that are childlike, not childish, will go forward boldly doing all that their Abba Father asks, knowing He has their back and it is all about Him. They are not concerned with what others think or say, because they know who they are in the eyes of their Abba Father and have died to the desire to be accepted in the eyes of man or looking for mans approval and are only out to please their Abba.All For His Glory,Karen

This is an outstanding thread. Ed, has brought up a often 'swept under the rug' topic here and I am glad he did. It is all good food for thought.A bit tricky isn't it?If anyone around here I would likely be a case study in this. Being that I like to poke fun at myself a lot and certainly it's because I am a knucklehead...see what I mean? But it's a combination of trying not to take everything so seriously, especially myself (and there is a LOT to be taken seriously) and yes, false humility.There is a fine line somewhere in all this. Tend to think that I feel much like an oddball in that a lot of "Christianese" feels rather, well, false. The opposite would be to be so grandiose that it just looks rather pathetic. Though I do lapse into it both as well. There is an "Well I am just trying to be honest" aspect, but is it real? Is it necessary?Seems at times I can come back here and read some things and go, wow, that had to have been the Holy Spirit working and other times where I just shake my head, "You really are a ..."I don't know if I have really said anything here at all. Just throwing it all out there and looking at it. In the back of my mind I can see where I have known where I am 'pushing it' and tend to leave it as an 'Yeah, but somebody may get a laugh out of it'....Brighten someone's day, hopefully. Thing is, it doesn't really matter what others may think of you in the sense of exalting one another above one another; Intelligent/not so intelligent. Man's opinion.But can we say we really don't care? Really?That seems to be another case of false humility.Do we not all come back to see what others have said to our posts/replies? with even at least a little bit of hope that we did something 'good'?That we may get just a little bit of praise for ourselves? I would like to say, no, that never happens, all the glory to God. But in reality it just isn't so.Classic quotes:Humility isn't 'thinking poorly of yourself.' It's 'not thinking of yourself at all.'Humility is one of those things that, once you think you have it, you probably don't. Oh well, what did you really expect from... :-)

But can we say we really don't care? Really?Sometimes I suspect my apathy knows no bounds, regrettably. It may be the darkest thing in my soul.As for true/false humility... if you get that little twinge of bittersweet vindicative pleasure, that ever-so-slightly burning sensation that sometimes accompanies thoughts of being resigned to one's fate but (at heart) still justifying oneself as the victim... then it's venom from hell, false humility, self-pity, pride.Describing true humility is a considerably more difficult task for me, perhaps because I have considerably less experience with it.All good and perfect gifts come from God, and all that is right in me is solely by the grace of God, that I have not the most miniscule ground for boasting.... and all that is wrong in me is solely my fault :)May God guide us to and live through us total obedience, in thought, word, and deed, even in the smallest matters of self-evaluation and proper accounting of responsibility for what we are,-Keith

Came back to see...Thanks Brother, I am not sure how to respond to that. That last part... Amen! I wonder how successful it has been ? :-D Truly, the respect is mutual my brother and the kindred spirit that we share has only grown over time. Being that we can just put it out there often times, maybe we could just call it "open heart surgery".

I wish I could articulate how much you all mean to me and how much you've helped me. God bless you all.Since the word is a two-edged sword, it often pricks my heart but I'm glad it does! As long as we allow the Spirit to search our hearts and make adjustments as He directs, He will bring us through whatever situation we face.I'm no Bible scholar but I try to share those things He's laid on my heart. I'm still unlearning some things in my heart caused by unbelief but He will lead me, He will direct my path, and I will not lean on my understanding.I thank God for some wonderful brethren who exhort, encourage, and comfort. God bless you all!

Quote:"I wanted to get some advice from the brethren on true humility versus self-abasement (for lack of a better word)."Ed,Perhaps Art Katz' material on Humility in "Tbe Spirit of Truth" and Meekness in "Apostolic Perceptions" would be useful.http://benisrael.org/OnlineBooks/spirit_of_truth/ch8_SoT.htmhttp://benisrael.org/OnlineBooks/apostolic_foundations/meekness.htm]

The man who was lord of fate,Born in an ox's stall,Was great because He was much too greatTo care about greatness at all.Ever and only He soughtThe will of His Father good;Never of what was high He thought,But of what His Father would.You long to be great; you try;You feel yourself smaller still:In the name of God let ambition die;Let Him make you what He will.Who does the truth, is oneWith the living Truth above;Be God's obedient little son,Let ambition die in love.George Macdonald (Poetical works volII)