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Mother Teresa

C
chadster Aug 25, 2007

If this has been previously posted and I missed it, my apologies. I was captivated by the news that a new book is being published "Come be My Light" which details Mother Teresa's journey of the dark night of the soul. I read that during the last 40 years of her life, she felt the absence of God's presence in her life.

Here's a quote from one of her writings:

Lord, my God, who am I that You should forsake me? The Child of your Love — and now become as the most hated one — the one — You have thrown away as unwanted — unloved. I call, I cling, I want — and there is no One to answer — no One on Whom I can cling — no, No One. — Alone ... Where is my Faith — even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness & darkness — My God — how painful is this unknown pain — I have no Faith — I dare not utter the words & thoughts that crowd in my heart — & make me suffer untold agony.

So many unanswered questions live within me afraid to uncover them — because of the blasphemy — If there be God — please forgive me — When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven — there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives & hurt my very soul. — I am told God loves me — and yet the reality of darkness & coldness & emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul. Did I make a mistake in surrendering blindly to the Call of the Sacred Heart?
— addressed to Jesus, at the suggestion of a confessor, undated

S
sojourner7 Aug 25, 2007

Mother Theresa's ministry was to the forgotten,
the neglected, the outcasts who were abandoned
by society. So she had to experience this in
her own heart in order that she understand
what it means and how it feels to be so alone!
This is a very hard path to follow and walk.

C
chadster Aug 25, 2007

Thank you, Sojourner, I couldn't agree with you more; and I apologize that I didn't mention in my original post that I was in no way suggesteing any criticism against Mother Teresa...in my book, she was indeed a saint! I believe that those who experience the severest trials of their faith, as she did, are those who truly walk closest to God.

It's just a shame that the anti-Christ spirit is now using this to say that if a woman who avowed such a deep faith as Mother Teresa had such doubts, then certainly there is NO validity to faith. Of course, we understand that the natural mind does not understand the things of the spirit, so there's no sense in even trying to make them understand.

It's my prayer that God may use even this to bring honor and glory to His name!

C
Compton Aug 25, 2007

Many people admire Theresa, perhaps because she is an emblem of good works. Quotes from her posthumous autobiography are troubling to us because they indicate she never really had peace, or even comfort from God, inspite of her good works.

MC

P
PaulWest Aug 25, 2007

she never really had peace, or even comfort from God, inspite of her good works.

I wonder if the same could be said for Mueller or Aylward?

T
tjservant Aug 25, 2007

Brother Paul and Compton

Would you elaborate on your statements as well as this topic in general?

I find this topic, this lack of peace, very interesting and would like to know more.

Thank you in advance.

R
roaringlamb Aug 25, 2007

Brethren consider these quotes-

“I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic.”
-Everything Starts With Prayer

“Some call Him Ishwar, some call Him Allah, some simply God, but we have to acknowledge that it is He who made us for greater things: to love and be loved. What matters is that we love. We cannot love without prayer, and so whatever religion we are, we must pray together.”

"We never try to convert those who receive [aid from Missionaries of Charity] to Christianity but in our work we bear witness to the love of God's presence and if Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, or agnostics become for this better men -- simply better -- we will be satisfied. It matters to the individual what church he belongs to. If that individual thinks and believes that this is the only way to God for her or him, this is the way God comes into their life -- his life. If he does not know any other way and if he has no doubt so that he does not need to search then this is his way to salvation."
-Life in the Spirit: Reflections, Meditations, and Prayers

It is difficult to see how a person could have the Holy Spirit indwelling them and think that there is any other name under Heaven by which men should be saved. She, like john Paul II dedicated their ministries to Mother Mary, and held to the Roman doctrine of Marian exaltation.

C
Compton Aug 25, 2007

Hi tjservant,

Would you elaborate on your statements as well as this topic in general?

While not wanting to make any specific comment on the authenticity of Theresa's faith, I did want to draw attention to the pitfall many zealous and sincere Christians fall into. This pitfall is especially important to consider in light of the upcoming revival conference, where no doubt many eager people will be tempted to adress the sub-standard condition of the Church by demanding she work harder, run faster and jump higher then she is currently doing.

The reason I made the comment I did, is that from my own Christian experience, such a well-intentioned approach can actually produce dispair instead of hope. By emphasizing good works we may indeed temporarily find a measure of hope that things will be better for our souls, but soon find a gospel of works only amplifies our own inward hopeless condition rather then alleviate it. This is because everywhere we apply our hands towards goodness, we are reminded of our former corruption. If we feed the poor, some soon realize they are doing so out of pride, or worse yet, that they only give out of their abundance and therefore remain hypocrites. Some even give to the poor as a self-righteous rebuke to the rich.

If, at the end of our good works, we are looking for peace, that blessed consolation from God justifying us once and for all, we soon become more spiritually impoverished and intellectually dispairing then ever. (That is, if we are fortunate enough not to become self-righteous and confident of our own lives...a dreadful curse to fall under.)

In any case, only the soul that has found perfect forgiveness in Christ is free enough to act without care for imperfect personal motives. If I give to the poor not out of love, but out of a desire to be accepted by God, what kind of love is this? Even the heathen will take action to save themselves. This is not to say, that a forgiven person has no corruption remaining in his motives, but that he is confident of forgiveness even for his impure motives and can help people purely out of love, derriving no selfish merit in the act.

The Christian's hope and peace is not in his imperfect good works but in the perfect good work of Christ. It seems to me that many revival-earnest saints do not hold fast to this most important truth of the Gospel. Many liberal humanistic theologies, and the emergent church's 'generous' orthodoxies including 'new perspectivism', also fail to minister to the condemned and unforgiven soul in this regard. I suspect, from reading some of her comparitive religion writings, that even Theresa suffered from doctrinal deficiency in this area.

Perhaps the best single testimony to the futility of putting hope in works is Wesley well known sermon, The Almost Christian.

"I did go thus far for many years, as many of this place can testify; using diligence to eschew all evil, and to have a conscience void of offence; redeeming the time; buying up every opportunity of doing all good to all men; constantly and carefully using all the public and all the private means of grace; endeavouring after a steady seriousness of behaviour, at all times, and in all places; and, God is my record, before whom I stand, doing all this in sincerity; having a real design to serve God; a hearty desire to do his will in all things; to please him who had called me to "fight the good fight," and to "lay hold of eternal life." Yet my own conscience beareth me witness in the Holy Ghost, that all this time I was but almost a Christian...

Yea, dost thou believe that Christ loved thee, and gave himself for thee? Hast thou faith in his blood? Believest thou the Lamb of God hath taken away thy sins, and cast them as a stone into the depth of the sea? that he hath blotted out the handwriting that was against thee, taking it out of the way, nailing it to his cross? Hast thou indeed redemption through his blood, even the remission of thy sins? And doth his Spirit bear witness with thy spirit, that thou art a child of God?

May we all thus experience what it is to be, not almost only; but altogether Christians; being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that is in Jesus; knowing we have peace with God through Jesus Christ; rejoicing in hope of the glory of God; and having the love of God shed abroad in our hearts, by the Holy Ghost given unto us!"


MC

T
theopenlife Aug 25, 2007

I'm confused. I thought that Mother Teresa was a blatant Marian Catholic, denied that salvation was by grace through faith alone, and encouraged others of different faiths to remain in their false religions so long as they were sincere? If the above is true, the quotes posted by Chadster are not in the least surprising.

I need to check my sources.

Great post, Compton.

sermonindex Aug 25, 2007

Could all the replies to this post or should I say lack of, be the reason the revelation of what your post indicated could be a problem in the upcoming about revival conference and hearts of the people? Lord have mercy on me, which one went away more justified right.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19002&forum=45&3

C
crsschk Aug 25, 2007

In any case, only the soul that has found perfect forgiveness in Christ is free enough to act without care for imperfect personal motives.

May we all thus experience what it is to be, not almost only; but altogether Christians; being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that is in Jesus; knowing we have peace with God through Jesus Christ;

"Free", "Freely"

MC couldn't but help recall;

[i]But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing[/i]

As relating to the works of 'good' that we do for any and all the reasons ... free to forget, without care as you so well put it.

Outstanding reply brother

T
tjservant Aug 25, 2007

Thanks for such a thoughtful and enlightening reply Compton.

C
chadster Aug 25, 2007

By all means, for those of you who are following this thread, please read the recent post by swsojourner under News/Current Events:

"Finding Joy in the Darkest Night, the Divine Abandonment of Mother Teresa"

Thank you for this excellent post!

S
ssweber Aug 25, 2007

It is also common to be incredibly strict on oneself during times of reflection... while enjoying God's consolation and acceptance at every other moment.

You'll know a Christian by his or her fruit, not by their confession letters :)

R
roaringlamb Aug 25, 2007

"Mary is our mother, the cause of our joy.
Being a mother, I have never had difficulty
in talking with Mary and feeling close to her."
-Mother Teresa

"When the Congregation of the Missionaries of Charity had just been established, we urgently needed a building for the Congregation's Motherhouse. To get it, I promised the Virgin to pray 85,000 Memorares.

Here is the prayer-
[i]Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection, implored your help, or sought your intercession was left unaided. Inspired by this confidence, I fly to you, O virgin of virgins, my Mother. To you I come, before you I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in your mercy, hear and answer me. Amen.[/i]"

A memorare is the following-
Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy
protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.

Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.
Amen.

More quotes-
"There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls - 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers."

"There are so many religions and each one has its different ways of following God. I follow Christ:
Jesus is my God,
Jesus is my Spouse,
Jesus is my Life,
Jesus is my only Love,
Jesus is my All in All;
Jesus is my Everything."

"A clean heart is a free heart. A free heart can love Christ with an undivided love in chastity, convinced that nothing and nobody will separate it from his love. Purity, chastity, and virginity created a special beauty in Mary that attracted God’s attention. He showed his great love for the world by giving Jesus to her."

While her works were admirable, this in no way shape or form makes her a Christian.

The Roman Catholic view of salvation is such that you must work in order to be saved, as they do not believe in justification by faith alone. Thus they must strive, and sanctify themselves to be justified. This is why they are so prone to works that seem wondrous to men, yet lack the Gospel(and no, people are not miraculously converted apart from the preaching of the Gospel. The Gospel alone is the means God has ordained to bring His people to faith).

In our day since many professing Protestants do not understand, or agree with Rome's view on justification, there is little surprise that a woman who attributed co-redemption, and sovereignty to Mary would be attractive to the Church at large.

M
MaryJane Aug 26, 2007

Greetings
I agree with what you shared here roaringlamb 100%
No amount of good deeds or good works can get anyone into Heaven. It does not matter if a person lives their entire life in service to others, if it is apart from Christ then it is nothing. There is only one way to the Father and that is through Jesus. He alone is the way the truth and the light.

God Bless
MaryJane

sermonindex Aug 26, 2007

I suggest everyone contributing to this thread re-read the Book of Job. Pay particular attention to Job's "friends" who opine that his suffering must be due to some fault of his own.

You may also want to meditate on our Lord's moment alone on the Cross: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (PSA 22:1, MATT 27:46)

One last thing:

"Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: [i]but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.[/i]" (JAM 4:11)

sermonindex Aug 27, 2007


Corey_H wrote:
I suggest everyone contributing to this thread re-read the Book of Job. Pay particular attention to Job's "friends" who opine that his suffering must be due to some fault of his own.

You may also want to meditate on our Lord's moment alone on the Cross: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (PSA 22:1, MATT 27:46)

One last thing:

"Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: [i]but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.[/i]" (JAM 4:11)


moe_mac wrote:
and judgeth his brother.

I understand your point and agree and I also feel it is by HIS grace we are saved and by HIS mercy we don’t all bust hell wide open. However, about judging, when I hear or see this comment, I am compelled this once again. If we punished a brother in a physical sense, then you have been the Judge and have judged. Merely making a statement about someone or something is not judging. If it were actually judging then all the Apostles, all the preachers, that are called by God and to preach the Word, and we have many who are not called by God that think they are preaching, but are only tickling ears trying to win the approval of men, and also all other Christians that speak God word would be guilty of what you are calling judging. Brother this is coined term by the liberals strait out of the mouth of devil to silence the voice of what is sin and is not sin. Often when a comment is made in the manner you call judging, it has nothing to do with and what I am referring to, but ask yourself, if you think that speaking something would be actually judging. Just what does a judge do when he judges!!!!!!!!! If we were judging when we spoke, no one would have dread in going to court or have any fear of punishment, if the judge only said you sinned. Are you sure this was what James was referring to in James 4:11. We should not slander or speak evil, but keep it in proportion.
Governments have been giving permission by God to Judge the lawless in punishment for controlling evil on this earth. God is the Judge in eternal matters.
It is a twisting scripture to use it in that manner. No, it is not Christian like to slander or hurt someone, but the letter kills, when you read it and consider what God calls holiness. We all fall short if is all did not for his grace and mercy, we have no hope.

God Bless Brother. I’m just giving what I understand, as we all do. Not judging!!!!!


edit: When the Pharisees had judged the women caught in act of adultery and decided she needed stoned according to their law and Jesus said he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone. He meant that literally, by what he said. They actually stoned people then. That's what James was saying in James 4:11.

sermonindex Aug 27, 2007

moe_mac said

Merely making a statement about someone or something is not judging. If it were actually judging then all the Apostles, all the preachers, that are called by God and to preach the Word, and we have many who are not called by God that think they are preaching, but are only tickling ears trying to win the approval of men, and also all other Christians that speak God word would be guilty of what you are calling judging. Brother this is coined term by the liberals strait out of the mouth of devil to silence the voice of what is sin and is not sin....

It is a twisting scripture to use it in that manner.

So far on this thread people have opined that Teresa was unsaved being a "Marian Catholic", "fell into a pitfall" of works-based faith, or perhaps wasn't saved because she wasn't constantly filled with spirit-filled joy.

Though I don't dare openly speculate as to her relationship with God - especially by her post-humously released notes (shamefully released against her will, no less) - I will offer some scripture that ought to humble the most zealous armchair Christian:

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." (JAM 2:18)

She did it all to please her Lord. Who are we to judge this dead woman's motives or standing with the Lord?

moe_mac, you can judge with words. And one day you will stand before Him and explain every word you ever spoke:

"A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. [i]For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.[/i]" (MATT 12:35 - 37)

C
Compton Aug 27, 2007

Corey,

Your warnings towards not dismissing works are very well recieved.

For my part I am not so concerned with discussing Theresa, as much as I am interested in discussing the ultimate futility of using works to find peace with the Lord.

Theresa's autobiography was simply a reminder. If a great woman like her felt herself distant from the Lord, then what hope do any of us have of finding a refuge in God from our works? This is not to judge her salvation...which is not the issue for me at all. Nor is it to discourage doing good works! (That would be an unfortunate misreading of my post at least.)And certainly this is not to elevate myself over anyone else...

On a broader level, I also wanted to briefly comment on the possibility that Theresa was some type of suffering mystic on the order of St John of the Cross. Now in considering Theresa's pessismistic and bewildered confessions, I suppose it is reasonable to wonder if she might have simply had a sensitive melancholy disposition. Many times I have noticed that in extreme pressure or lonliness, creative and melancholic souls tend to become mystical about their own anxieties and trials.

I certainly can relate to this tendency...though I do not think it is especially healthy. A mystic can see their own feelings of abandonment as a type of cosmic fellowship with the broken heart of Christ...which is all very compelling on the surface. Yet, it may be that the mystic has reversed the order of fellowship with Christ...forgetting that Jesus became a man and suffered as a man in order to condescend to man...not so that man could ascend to Him through mystic doors. He understands our needs, and is touched with the feeling of our infirmities.

So, if we try to see Theresa's sadness as a type of mystical higher calling, keep in mind we may be pointing some people who are struggling with depression and sadness towards emulating her depression, and not her good works.

This whole issue of finding peace with God is really the focus of my post. My point is simply that we sometimes endure unnessecary personal torment. Some even decide that prolonged physcological anguish is a type of spiritual journey with Christ. I am wary of this interpretation of extended depression.

If we would find peace in ourselves, we must find and know acceptance from the Lord. This peace is through faith in the Lord Jesus. Yet, I believe it is possible to be a Christian, while continuing to wonder and doubt that the Lamb's sacrifice has answered God's wrath. I feel we all struggle with this to some extent. Many of us try to medicate this anxiety with good works...but ultimately to no avail.

Works are not a pitfall! However works justification is a great pitfall. Now Theresa was obviously concerned with more then with her own peace...she was laboring in love for others, even without the benifit of personal peace. This is noble and perhaps a sign of personal strength. So for me this is not a discussion on the merit or value of Theresa's life. My comments were specifically adressing a tendency to see works as a means of finding peace with God. Thesesa's confessions are a troubling reminder that while good works are praisewothy, and sorely needed in this world, they are a non sequitur towards finding peace with God.

MC

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