What is the lake of fire?

Now. I still believe that the lake of fire is torment. But I have come to accept that the ceasing to exist is possible. I asked a moderator of another forum this same question. And he told me this:

The phrase second death occurs 4 times, all in Revelation. I've provided the verses below:

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

There is a verse in Revelation which holds a bit of a key.

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The second death is the lake of fire. That being said, jump back up to 10 of the same chapter.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Now most people jump on that and say "oh the second death must be eternal damnation!" The key here is that this is a Hebraism in the Greek that means until the age of ages which means completion. Let me go back to the second death.

What does it mean to die? Shortest answer is to cease living. It is appointed unto all men to die once (Hebrews 9:27). This is the first death - the physical one that separates us from this physical body and this is most beautifully spoken of in Ecclesiastes 12.

All souls return to God.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

To bring you to the answer, I jump to Matthew and the words of Christ himself:

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The second death is destruction.

Revelation 19:3
And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

This again goes to the Hebraism (through the Greek of the NT, of course) of smoke that rises forever and ever. The smoke of the pit goes up forever and ever, but that doesn't mean the torment does.

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Those thrown into the lake cease to exist.

What about the verse that says "their worm shall never die" or the one that says "false prophets will undergo greater damnation"? See the verses below:

Isaiah 66:24 (King James Version)

24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Mark 9:43-49 (King James Version)
43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

49For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Matthew 23:14 (King James Version)

14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Mark 12:40 (King James Version)

40Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

Luke 20:47 (King James Version)

47Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.

How can one recieve a greater damnation if to be damned is simply to die?

Yeah. That's what I thought. Well, I'll show them those verses. Thanks!

Thank you very much abe! I will inform those people of their mistakes. Hopefully they'll change their ways.

I got this comment.

Well right, but nowhere does it say everlasting torture Ilya. It's "everlasting contempt" and "everlasting punishment." When one is thrown into the lake of fire, there is no coming back. There's not a thing here that says everlasting torture.

I've got this response on the worm that never dies.

Easily, this again says nothing about eternal torture:

Matthew 3:11-12
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

God is the unquenchable fire that will burn up those that don't make the cut. God is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29) and for those of us that love him, there's nothing to fear. But, that fire will burn up those that work iniquity very quickly. It just as in Revelation where the smoke, on several occasions, rises for ever and ever. That's a Hebraism (in the Greek here, obviously) about the smoke rising and doesn't have anything to do with eternal torture. Man has just decided to fill that into the "gaps" - and I use that word very lightly. A little studying reveals it to be flawed.

he didn't say anything about the worm...

He hinted it.

What do maggots become when they have matured? Flies. So the maggots or worms did not die. What do maggots feed on? Dead and rotting flesh. There will be enough dead bodies for the maggots to feed on, so that they can mature into flies.

I'll email you the link...

I already know what they will say.

Everlasting punishment not punishing.

You can be dead for ever, and it'll be everlasting punishment.

Luke 16:23-28
23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

25 "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

27 "He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

And that's talking about prison. And not the lake of fire.

I know the Jehovah Witnesses hold this doctrine that once you are thrown into the lake of fire you cease to exist and then there are no more torments. Its over no more suffering.

But i think one has to skip a lot of verses or ignore them to hold such a doctrine. Hell is forever. Eternal misery and woes.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, [b]suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.[/b]

Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of[b] eternal judgment[/b]

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into [b]everlasting punishment[/b]: but the righteous into life eternal.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 [b]Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction[/b] from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Thank you. I too think that the second death will be the separation from God and not ceasing to exist.

"Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

This again goes to the Hebraism (through the Greek of the NT, of course) of smoke that rises forever and ever. The smoke of the pit goes up forever and ever, but that doesn't mean the torment does."

Just to clarify, the previous post is what they wrote, not something that I was saying (still figuring out how do do the offical quote thing :)

It's funny how they slide past that verse sooo nicely! The verse said "The smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up forever and ever!" It doesn't simiply say "somebody got tormented for a slit-second and the smoke from that kept on going up and up and up and up!....."

If somebody said, "the dust from the truck tires rose", it means that there were trucks there to make the dust rise. "The smoke of their torment" means that there was somebody getting tormented to have the "smoke of their torment" rise up forever and ever. If the trucks go by and are there no more, guess what? The dust settles!

Boy some people seem to like to skip by the obvious in an effort to keep believing their wrong beliefs.

There was a study on that actually, in which they found that some scientists that did experiments and found evidence that contradicted the popular belief with regards to a certain theory, would almost subconsciously skip over the evidence and look only at evidence that reaffirmed the common theory which was wrong. Seems that happens among christians as well....