If he walked into your Sunday morning service, what would He preach on? What would the title be?
Would He need music at the end?:-P Would there be an altar call?
Basically, how do you think his church service would be?
Santana,
I imagine He'd twist together a cat-o-nine-tails made of TV cables and computer mouse cords and rage through every megachurch on the West Coast of the U.S. - starting with the Crystal Cathedral and Saddleback...
Then, once all the people were out, He'd call down fire-breathing angels to set all those churches ablaze...
Then, he'd walk the lower class neighborhoods of the world, among the poor and helpless wage-slaves and real slaves of the world and seek those who will love Him "in spirit and in truth".
He would wear blue jeans and a lumber jacket and His pierced hands might get a little dirty from all the dirty tires he helped change on His travels, the tears He wiped away from dirty faces, and the millions of times He placed His holy hands on the ground in concert with others to teach them submission to the Lord...
He would speak gently to the unsaved sinners and convert many by love.
He would turn His Word, indignation as a firey two-edged sword, on the modern pharisees ("churchian" hypocrites) who made big profits by His word, and performed many signs and wonders, yet failed to bear fruit.
They wouldn't recognize Him, of course, and would hate Him more than the athiests and secularists, when He raises Babylon's religion to the ground...
But I could be wrong.
I am sure the first words would be: "Repent
and remember your first love." The sermon
would speak about the hunger for the Word
of God, the desire for righteousness and
for God's will to be done here on earth as
it is in heaven. The anointing would surely
convict all who were willing to hear!!
If Jesus came back, He would have to sustain us with His mercy so we wouldn't die. We would be our face with our mouth to the dust! He would come back as the King for battle, wielding His sword of truth! "He wouldn't come to cleanse the temple, He would cleanse the pulpit!"(Ravenhill) He is not coming back the same way as He left. However, if He came today as it was in His time of ministry, would we know Him? Would we be like the Pharisees? Would we follow Him? Would we would be to self righteous because of what we know doctrinally?
i asked myself, if I was living during the time of Christ, would I be apart of the Pharisee's? Would I be open to Christs teaching? I think we can all get prideful in our believes, thinking I am right and you are wrong! Just another thought.
Could thread
In his own time on Earth, one of the things that Jesus openly attacked was legalism, specifically the legalism that the Pharisees had established which only hindered people rather than leading them to God.
If he were to do the same today, I honestly don't think he'd be overtly concerned about legalism compared to the licentiousness that so many churches have fallen into.
Though in light of his reaction to the markets established in the temple area, can you imagine what he'd do within a contemporary seeker-friendly megachurch? He'd probably do more than drive out the "retailers" and "managers" with just a whip.
We already have many sermons from Jesus, they start in Genesis Chapter one and verse one and go all the way through Revelations Chapter 22 and verse 21.
John 8:32
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
KJV
Rev 22:13
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
KJV
John 1:1-5
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
KJV
John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
KJV
edit:Mal 3:6
6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
KJV
This is indeed an interesting question because many godly men and women seek the Lord out diligently every week to speak that sermon they feel Jesus has instructed them to speak.
But if you're asking what would Jesus preach or speak if He was here in the "flesh". That would depend on the circumstances at the time, his specific location, what outward manifestations the Holy Spirit had prepared for him by what seems to be circumstances or present providence. Who he was addressing.
If it was to the Jew first, service would be like that in the temple, nothing out of order. Then to the redeemed gentile assembly, same here to, nothing out of order. But in both there would be a proclamation of the kingdom of God, as well as a show of the power of that kingdom and a call to discipleship, which usually takes repentance or a turning away from the selfish pursuits we often entangle ourselves in. Altar call? Music? Why not, to say God would not use such things is to limit His ability to use such things in the heart of man. Music and instruments have always played an important part in heaven, why not on earth too. Just my personal opinion though.
I imagine He'd twist together a cat-o-nine-tails....
The one thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history - Lennard Ravenhill.
I guess men has not changed much the last 2000 years. Good thread, one of the best in a while imho. :-)
Some really searching answers here, as someone said, a very good thread.
Corey_H wrote:
Santana,I imagine He'd twist together a cat-o-nine-tails made of TV cables and computer mouse cords and rage through every megachurch on the West Coast of the U.S. - starting with the Crystal Cathedral and Saddleback...
Then, once all the people were out, He'd call down fire-breathing angels to set all those churches ablaze...
Then, he'd walk the lower class neighborhoods of the world, among the poor and helpless wage-slaves and real slaves of the world and seek those who will love Him "in spirit and in truth".
He would wear blue jeans and a lumber jacket and His pierced hands might get a little dirty from all the dirty tires he helped change on His travels, the tears He wiped away from dirty faces, and the millions of times He placed His holy hands on the ground in concert with others to teach them submission to the Lord...
He would speak gently to the unsaved sinners and convert many by love.
He would turn His Word, indignation as a firey two-edged sword, on the modern pharisees ("churchian" hypocrites) who made big profits by His word, and performed many signs and wonders, yet failed to bear fruit.
They wouldn't recognize Him, of course, and would hate Him more than the athiests and secularists, when He raises Babylon's religion to the ground...
But I could be wrong.
I think you have covered most aspects, Bro Corey, and very challenging they are - especially that about getting His hands dirty.
Not sure if I agree about the fire breathing angels though - not until His second coming. Remember what He said when James and John wanted to call down fire from heaven becasue the Samaritans rejected Him?
The only thing I have to add is that the modern "Pharisees" are probably more like the [i]original
The Pharisees were very correct in their theology (Unlike most modern mega-church leaders) and kept their (mostly true) interpretation of God's Word very rigidly, and condemned those who didn't. They were very very hard against those they perceived as sinners, quick to condemn anyone to hell.
They paid their dues meticulously, gave generously to the poor and prayed long earnest prayers.
They were especially hard on immorality, and wanted to stone the woman caught in adultery (John 8) They also apparently had double standards and bullied the weak and vulnerable, while letting the powerful and influential sinner go free (where was the [i]man
Pharisee = correct theology but no love or compassion whatsoever.
Jesus said: [b]"Woe unto you...hypocrites!..."
That's really scarey!
Jeannette
Jeanette said
Not sure if I agree about the fire breathing angels though - not until His second coming. Remember what He said when James and John wanted to call down fire from heaven because the Samaritans rejected Him?
Here we go again! Finding the fly in my ointment! Hehe.
Was that before or after He spoke to the woman at the well? Perhaps she was to Samaria what Lot was to Sodom... the one righteous person by whom the cities were spared (for a time).
Pharisee = correct theology but no love or compassion whatsoever.
Which makes one wonder what we call a person who's loving and compassionate but has the wrong theology... Then again, how can love and compassion be the wrong theology...?
Pharisee = correct theology but no love or compassion whatsoever.
moe wrote:
I don't see anywhere in scripture the pharisees had the right theology.
Corey_H wrote:
Jeanette saidNot sure if I agree about the fire breathing angels though - not until His second coming. Remember what He said when James and John wanted to call down fire from heaven because the Samaritans rejected Him?
Here we go again! Finding the fly in my ointment! Hehe.
[color=990033]I'm not sure if it was before or after the woman at the well. The accounts are in different Gospels, so not easy to compare. I also have difficulty remembering numbers or dates, and getting things in chronological order! :-?Was that before or after He spoke to the woman at the well? Perhaps she was to Samaria what Lot was to Sodom... the one righteous person by whom the cities were spared (for a time).
Anyone?
But John 8 does say that the woman spoke to the other folk in Samaria and many of them believed too; so there isn't much of a parallel with Sodom[/color]
Pharisee = correct theology but no love or compassion whatsoever.
Which makes one wonder what we call a person who's loving and compassionate but has the wrong theology... Then again, how can love and compassion be the wrong theology...?
Found two relevant scriptures:
James 5:19-20 [i][b][color=000099]19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.[/color]
and 1Peter 4:8 [i][b][color=000099] And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.[/color]
However, the dilemma is still there because the first quote is to do with warning a fellow Christian who is doing wrong, (which involves correct theology, that God doesn't condone sin); and second the love for one another that probably ignores minor faults and differences.
Mmmm good point, really that question could begin a whole new thread...
And also bring up the "once saved, always saved" question again, for the first quote is distinctly Armenian in tone ;-)
(If you do, I'm not taking part! :roll: )
Blessings
Jeannette
They did seem to have an almost fanatical regard for the Scriptures. Their interpretation differed from the Sadduccees in that they did believe in the resurrection of the dead, and in the spiritual realm in general. Which, I think you will agree, is correct theology from a Christian point of view too?
moe_mac wrote:
Pharisee = correct theology but no love or compassion whatsoever.moe wrote:
I don't see anywhere in scripture the pharisees had the right theology.
Acts 23:6-8
[i][color=0000CC] 6ΒΆ But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
7 And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.
8 [u]For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both
Blessings
Jeannette
Littlegift wrote:
They did seem to have an almost fanatical regard for the Scriptures. Their interpretation differed from the Sadduccees in that they did believe in the resurrection of the dead, and in the spiritual realm in general. Which, I think you will agree, is correct theology from a Christian point of view too?
God's Word said:
Mark 7:7-9
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
KJV
Matt 15:9-12
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
KJV
Matt 21:23-27
23 And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?
24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
KJV
Matt 22:16-22
16 And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.
KJV
Jeanette said,
I'm a Biologist, don't forget. I'd be more likely, if it was a real fly, to give you a lecture on what kind of fly it was, and why I know its a fly not any other kind of insect!
Interesting you should mention this... After I prayed this afternoon, a bee landed on my windowsill (no screen, so he was inside). I had been asking the Lord to increase the Fruit of the Spirit in my life like charity, love, compassion, patience, longsuffering, etc...
Anyhow, this bee looked in distress. He was constantly washing his antenna, fluttering his wings, and hitting his abdomen against the window sill. Then he'd rest for a bit and do the whole thing over.
I asked the Lord to help him find his way home. I hope he's safe (and gone) by the time I get home.
But John 8 does say that the woman spoke to the other folk in Samaria and many of them believed too; so there isn't much of a parallel with Sodom.
Perhaps Ninevah would be a better analogy?
I'm glad that our salvation doesn't depend on absolutely correct theology!...
Which is why I have stated in other threads that we cannot discount the probability of saved Catholics.
..."Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins..."...And also bring up the "once saved, always saved" question again, for the first quote is distinctly Armenian in tone.
Most "doctrines of men", including Calvinism, Armenianism, Lutherism, Catholicism, Charismaticism, etc are products of the same theological error: the founders of these doctrines discern certain spiritual truths, latch onto them, intellectualize or emotionalize them, squeeze as much juice that they can from them, and then base their entire theology on their own idolized versions of truth.
Logic is a flawed system created by a fallen creature to explain a troubled Universe. How then can it explain perfection...?
Now THERE'S another thread... hehe.
corey_H
I feel I should say something about the bee.
this is off topic and we should start a new thread.
I was pondering the bee situation were having here in our world and they are all dying off.
Bee's are a colony creature, and when they come into close contact with each other they are becoming defiled by a parasite.
But there is a mason bee, the name doesnt mean anything to this, but this bee, lives by itself and will not intermingle with a general population of bee's to become defiled, these bee's will live in small caves they bore in wood or in holes in stone. but they do what God intended them to do and thats polinate God's creation, flowers, and usually for fruit farmers.
What I feel the Lord had shown me, everyone can think im nuts but were, alot of us are as christians are becomming defiled by the teaching going on out there and the lack of sound doctrine out there and are slowly dying off as effective fruit bearers.
but the bee (christian) who has kept himself from the general population is staying alive and being effective and bearing fruit for God.
my two cents.
Sorry about this but just couldnt help saying anything.
Read ezekiel 9.
Have a great day and God bless.
poet said
But there is a mason bee, the name doesnt mean anything to this, but this bee, lives by itself and will not intermingle with a general population of bee's to become defiled, these bee's will live in small caves they bore in wood or in holes in stone. but they do what God intended them to do and thats polinate God's creation, flowers, and usually for fruit farmers.
What I feel the Lord had shown me, everyone can think im nuts but were, alot of us are as christians are becomming defiled by the teaching going on out there and the lack of sound doctrine out there and are slowly dying off as effective fruit bearers.
but the bee (christian) who has kept himself from the general population is staying alive and being effective and bearing fruit for God.
my two cents.
Sorry about this but just couldnt help saying anything.
Read ezekiel 9.
Have a great day and God bless.
Brother, thanks for your encouraging words, the scripture you cited and your interpretation.
I love how the Lord opened your eyes, and now mine, to profound truths like this!
Thanks again.
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