Discipline

Now, I'm not talking about church discipline or something but about 'discipline'. That means, I decide to do something on a given time and I find myself unable to do so, not because I can't but because I don't want too.

An example what the results are:

I'm used to go to bed late, this causes me to be unable to get up early. So I get up at 11 am, basically skipping breakfast. You can imagine that I want to eat then, this results in praying and reading His Word with haste in my heart (which should not be).

But its not only that, also when I need to do something important or to do things for school I often push it forward.
So you might ask, what am I doing if I'm pushing forward important things? Usually just surfing the internet and doing a lot small things, which eats up my time.

Does anyone recognize this? I feel it hinders or might hinder my future relationship with God.
According to a brother I can't just pray for discipline. Can anyone offer some advice or insight?

Ps, I hope I didn't post such a thread before. Atleast I saw nothing coming up on the first page of search. :-)

Just wanted to share something from Chuck
Swindoll:

"Discipline is the narrow way to obedience."

"Discipline is how God builds and develops
character and virtue in our lives."

"There is no growth without discipline;
there is no maturity without discipline!" ;-)

According to a brother I can't just pray for discipline. Can anyone offer some advice or insight?

I think it is important to point out that the Spirit filled life is a bit different than living a 'disciplined' life. A person can in effect by discipline learn to immitate a lot of 'Christian' behaviors. But this is not to be confused with a person who as Galatians asks, [i]"Having begun in the Spirit are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"[/i]

Our lives as Christians flow from our relationship and communion with God. The whole point of salvation is not to make a lot of disciplined folk that can do all the right things. It is to bring us into a state of Eternal Life (see John 17:3). If we have eternal Life (real and effectual reconciliation to God) and we live our lives in communion with Him- walking in the Spirit- you will [u]not[/u] fulfill the lusts of the flesh. A trillion teachings and disciplines and laws cannot take you to where I am talking about. It's is all about a living relationship with Christ by the Holy Spirit.

The objective is not some weird conformity to some standard. Our objective is that we yield the fruit of the Spirit. The axe is already laid to the root of the tree (Matt. 3:10). No fruit = no fellowship. It is that simple. A person may want the gratification of religion to calm the conscience- but a relationship with Christ will yield the FRUIT of the Spirit. No relationship= no fruit. Discipline cannot produce fruit- discipline [i]is[/i] a fruit (we could argue self-control). Folk that do not produce fruit do not commune with God in a real way. They may have religion- but are they walking with God? No amount of discipline can take the place of fellowship with Christ. It [u]IS[/u] what we need. It is the solution to our lack of spiritual self-discipline.

Warrior,

I suggest you set some goals for yourself. You recognize that you must be lazy - you are allowing your own life to just float along - you see the need for structure.

So, you get a paper and pencil and make a list of the things you need to do to get some structure. (I wonder how can you afford to stay in bed until 11 AM? No job? No chores? What are you doing at night that you can sleep so late? Blows my mind...)

Some things you might want to consider:
1. Time with the LORD.
2. Perhaps there are others iun your household who need assistance: get up and help them.
3. Go to school.
4. Get a job.
5. Limit your time with media, like the internet, watching TV, DVDs, movies.
6. Take on a hobby.
7. Get creative with something that interests you.

Brother, you need to get busy and the easiest way is to look around you and when you see a need that needs to met, allow God to use you to satisfy that need. This is the short of the long, or the essense of my post.

Blessings,

ginnyrose

Thank you for your replies and insights brothers and sisters!
Actually the thought has crossed my mind that I should have joined the army, so discipline would have been drilled in I reasoned. But that was just a silly thought. Yea its true I/we need some down time, but I have a tendency to take it while you can't.
Reminds me of proverbs, in the time of harvest you don't continue sleeping. But even during the time of harvest we need rest. So thats true. :-)

The way Sojourner put it is how I thought about it. But can discipline become a 'work'?
Anyhow, I do notice that a lot great men and women of God have a lot of discipline.. or its simply flowing out of their passion for the Lord? If thats the case it cannot be learned.

You are right RobertW, I do desire a Spirit filled life. Now at the moment I do have a desire to give the Lord an houre in the morning. It's just that I can't do it if I dealt unwisely with my time from the previous day. I'll have some more thought about your post.

@ death2self,
Yes I could ask God for that, and I can certainly see that its a scary prayer. But even though its scary, it is the best.

@ Ginnyrose,
The reason I stay in bed till 11 am is because its still my summer holiday and my job. In order to earn enough cash to get married I'm doing afternoon shifts which are from 3pm till 11:30pm or even later. I usually work 2 or 3 days a week because its too heavy for me to work a full week. The other days when I'm off I find it very difficult to just go to bed at 10pm so I can get up at a decent time. (7am) So don't worry that I'm going out drinking, dancing and partying. :-P

With school I can't just have a quiet time in the evening because I get too tired. Thats why I am trying to move it to the morning.

Today I wrote down some things on a list and it did help a bit.
Point 5 is a good one, I don't watch tv on my studentroom because I don't have one. It eats 2 much time and its mostly junk anyhow, same with dvd's. But when you are talking about internet its another deal.. I do spend much time on internet.
Still when school is starting I'll be very busy. Looking back to previous year I noticed that I was pushing a lot of tasks forward so I would not be to busy, only to find myself being flooded with work at the end. Lazy servants are not portrayed that positively in the Bible!

Yea I do see the need of structure... 1st the law so structure gets stamped in and then grace...? :-)

I love you guys; your brother in the Lord,
Jonathan

Hi brother moe_mac,

I know what its like to be totally captured by Christ! After being saved I devoured the Word and I couldn't wait to be done with my internship at that time to be with God! How glorious and wonderful as everything grows strangely dim compared to the glory of Christ. :-D
But I know that I don't have this much passion about the Lord as at the start and this troubles me.
I'll have some thought about the questions you ask. I heard a Paul Washer sermon yesterday where he also stated that honoring your parents is not optional.

Can one have a new heart and a new Spirit and not be dead to self?
Thank you for your reply!

Shalom,
Jonathan

Hi Warior,

I appreciate your candor about your discipline. We could all stand to be more frank with one another about our weaknesses in many areas of our lives. Also, I certainly agree with Robert and similar observations that rigged 'discipline' is not the highest aim, but trying to understand what being led of the Spirit is. We learn this I believe...and listen and learn from each other to grow in the life of the Spirit.

But I know that I don't have this much passion about the Lord as at the start and this troubles me.

At the risk of sounding contradictory, I would like to add that 'passion' is all well and good, but is really at the other end of the game field from the goal of discipline. In my experience, waiting for the passion before taking the initiative is a, well undisciplined gameplan to life. This may sound odd since so many Christian songs and themes seem to center around having more passion for the Lord. I believe this kind of thinking will only cause you to go in circles rather then achieve real traction.

Here is a short piece of practical advice I can give you: don't attack every area of your life all at once with ultimate goals. Instead, right the ship one degree at a time. For instance, if you need to diet, make modest goals of exercise and healthy eating, and experience what it is like to succeed before adding to those goals. Most people who go from having no real plan to setting extreme goals are unable to follow through and instead of tasting success, they become familiar with failure.

Becoming familiar with success is a most important step to self-discipline. Knowing what it takes to win is crucial. You win in one area first, and take notes on how you did it. Then apply that experience to other areas...one at a time if you need to.

Don't assume you can change all of your habits at once. You will only frustrate yourself, and become convinced there is something in your personality that is inherently unable to accept discipline. Part of being spirit-led is being free from the burden of changing everything all at once...real traction is more important then idealistic promises.

I like what the American President Abe Lincoln said..."I may walk slow but I never walk backwards." Well many zealous people run forward only to fall backwards because their progress was only a burst of zeal and passion, and not true maturity and knowledge. Maturity comes when we see how to win with wisdom and not with passion. Only maturity produces sustainable results. Living by passion, even in spiritual matters, will only burn you out.

So set a simple, realizable goal today and start getting used to winning brother!

Blessings,

MC

Thank you moe_mac for you advise and prayers, I appreciate it a lot! Thanks Compton for your advise too! :-)

Compton's:

Don't assume you can change all of your habits at once. You will only frustrate yourself, and become convinced there is something in your personality that is inherently unable to accept discipline. Part of being spirit-led is being free from the burden of changing everything all at once...real traction is more important then idealistic promises.

I think this is very good advice. The Holy Spirit will work on us as we yield our lives to Him. God has a way of putting His finger on the most important things. He has a way of sorting through to find what is most important to us that He might show us the controversy He has with us. It has been my experience that He takes these things one by one. Not that somehow being born again is a progressive work; but God does have a way of bringing things to the surface to be dealt with. He knows what He wants to work on next. I think the key is our willingness to keep saying yes to Him.

WHen you figure it out Warrior, please PM me the formula.

I'm serious..

God speed

So I guess the next step is that I find what the HS wants (me?) to work on. There are so many things I would like to see changed, actually we only need to read His holy Word to find more things in which we should be changed. Can I really keep up? Thank you for some more food for thought! :-)

I think this is very good advice. The Holy Spirit will work on us as we yield our lives to Him. God has a way of putting His finger on the most important things. He has a way of sorting through to find what is most important to us that He might show us the controversy He has with us. It has been my experience that He takes these things one by one. Not that somehow being born again is a progressive work; but God does have a way of bringing things to the surface to be dealt with. He knows what He wants to work on next. I think the key is our willingness to keep saying yes to Him.

Hey SeanHobson!

I'd love too, if I could. Is there really one formula? I've found out that I often thought to have 'the solution', which in reality was just me trying to put God in another box. :-(