Christ in you; event or process

Let me start this slowly.
The thoughts returned just this morning whilst reading Galatians.
Part of our evangelical culture is the notion of 'inviting Christ into your heart'. When evangelising younger folk we tend to talk in terms of 'giving your heart to Jesus'.

Now, if you haven't thought about this the next statement will sound almost heretical, but the language of 'inviting Christ into the heart' or 'giving the heart to Christ' is not a biblical concept. We all know what we mean by the phrases but sometimes we have to examine the language we use to see if it is not confusing us.

There are two particular references which we may have in mind when we use this language.

[color=0066FF]My little children, for whom I labor in birth again [u]until Christ is formed in you[/u], (Galatians 4:19 NKJV)

For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, [u]that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith[/u]; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. (Ephesians 3:14-19 NKJV)[/color]

What is interesting in these two quotations is that in each instance ‘Christ within’ is a consequence of an earlier event. In Galatians Paul is saying that he believes that ‘Christ’ is not yet formed in those who have abandoned him for another gospel. In Ephesians Paul is saying (or praying) that the purpose of having the Spirit in the ‘inner man’ is ‘in order that’ Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith. Paul is not thinking about Christ entering the heart at an initial crisis but that the state of ‘Christ in the heart’ is the consequence of an ongoing process.

For Paul ‘Christ in You’ is not a theological statement but a description of a man’s life. He does not say ‘Christ is in you, therefore…’ Christ in you, is not his starting point. The Galatians had evidenced that something was lacking. Paul sets himself to pray until Christ is formed within them. This hardly fits with the way we evangelicals have handled the ‘Christ in you’ theme.

Christ does not live in the heart by faith as a result of someone praying the sinner’s prayer but as a result of the constant inworking of the Spirit. Christ dwells in the heart as a result of the Spirit indwelling the inner man. We use the phrase ‘if you have Christ you have the Spirit’, but the New Testament emphasis seems to be somewhat different, more on the lines of ‘if you have the Spirit Christ dwells in you’.

[color=0066FF]But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. (Romans 8:9 NKJV)[/color]

During his earthly ministry Christ was with them and not in them. He interpreted this in terms of the Spirit in John 14

[color=0066FF] “If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for [u]He dwells with you and will be in you[/u]. (John 14:15-17 NKJV)[/color]

In this passage of scripture he switches easily from “He will come” to “I will come”. It seems that Christ ‘comes’ when the Spirit comes. It would seem a logical impossibility to think of ‘Christ in them’ while Christ was still with them. If this is so there was clearly something decisively different about their experience when Christ ascended and sent the Spirit. Surely this indwelling Spirit is the means whereby Christ dwells in us and is formed in us. If Christ is at the Father's right hand how else will be get to be 'in us' other than by his indwelling Spirit?

It squares much more firmly with Paul's question at Ephesus which was not 'have you received Christ?' but 'have you received the Spirit?'

...as Robert W sometimes says... "I'll go and get my helmet" :-)

God is Spirit. We must be born of the Spirit,
be filled with the Spirit, be led of the Spirit,
and walk in the Spirit. The Spirit abides and
dwells within and reveals Christ in you;
the hope of glory!!

If anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, they are lost.

I'm going to be a little provocative. Just some FYI, I don't have all this sorted out.

Two questions.

1) What do you mean "lost?"

2) When were the below people justified and when did they "receive the Spirit"? Can you be justified and not have the Spirit?

Act 8:6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
Act 8:7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
Act 8:8 And there was great joy in that city.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

I would like you to relate the coming upon of the Spirit, the third and last manifestation of the Holy Ghost to what you have so apply presented; Jesus, of course, being the Baptizer, as John declared.

I think you are going to have to explain that to me. What is the third and what are the first and second manifestations of the Spirit?

We get HIS spirit at the new spiritual birth.

Is this right? or do we receive new birth when we receive his life? and how do we receive the life of him who is at the Father's right hand unless it is by receiving His Spirit?

This is the question I am posing. We speak so frequently of 'receiving Christ' but what biblical basis do we have for believing that a person 'receives Christ' because they pray a pattern prayer?

God is Spirit. We must be born of the Spirit,
be filled with the Spirit, be led of the Spirit,
and walk in the Spirit. The Spirit abides and
dwells within and reveals Christ in you;
the hope of glory!!

All this is true but none of it answers my original questions. My question is 'how does Christ get to be within?' The usual evangelical answer is by praying a prayer. I don't think that squares with the New Testament. The New Testament says Christ gets to be within as a result of the inward working of His Spirit. Consequently we can only receive Christ by receiving His Spirit.

philologos wrote:

We get HIS spirit at the new spiritual birth.

Is this right? or do we receive new birth when we receive his life? and how do we receive the life of him who is at the Father's right hand unless it is by receiving His Spirit?

This is the question I am posing. We speak so frequently of 'receiving Christ' but what biblical basis do we have for believing that a person 'receives Christ' because they pray a pattern prayer?

that is a very good question... i recently listend to a sermon, where tha man said that when he leads someone to Christ it will take about 5 hours. He makes them read 30-50 verses about sin, and asks questions to see if they understand. And then he makes them read as many verses about Jesus and redemption and so on, and then he asks them if they are a child of God, have they been born of the spirit, if they are not sure more scriptures, he said, he never says to anyone that they are saved, God tells us when we are. I found it also interesting that of all the people this man lead to Christ...he said only one had "fallen away"

And i also find the 3 minute call or "bow your heads" and receive Christ moment in churches to be a little superficial and not biblical.... but what would be the most "right" way to lead a person to Jesus?

When we receive Jesus Christ we are sons.

From the Bible perspective 'How do we receive Christ?'

BTW Greg has an article of mine here on Sermonindex entitled...

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=14601]Receiving Christ[/url]

It explains in greater detail my discomfort with the evangelical phraseology and the way most of us use it.

Ron's:

What is interesting in these two quotations is that in each instance ‘Christ within’ is a consequence of an earlier event. In Galatians Paul is saying that he believes that ‘Christ’ is not yet formed in those who have abandoned him for another gospel.

It seems to me that when folk no longer receive the Spirit- they opt for a substitute. Generally that substitute has something to do with laws or rules designed to 'hem in' the flesh and establishing a series of outward expressions of faith that counterfeit true Christianity. In short, it is a variant form of the Old Covenant.

The 'event' of receiving the Spirit did not happen- and they apparently were scrambling to get things going. But in order for the fruit of the Spirit to 'manifest' the Spirit has to be present. We never read statements like, "the fruit of the Law" or the "fruit of self- discipline", etc. It is the fruit of the SPirit of God, the evidence that He is in us working in us both to will and to do His good pleasure.

This is a quote from the article:

Sometimes the struggles of the ‘seeker’ could be alleviated by an occasional word of direction from a ‘helper’ pointing them to Christ Himself or to a word of promise. Later this spontaneous ‘help’ became more formalised in ‘counselling techniques’ which led the seeker through a prescribed list of Bible verses which brought them to the place of understanding and enabled them to pray the ‘sinner’s prayer’. It was much more efficient than spending hours in prayer, apparently.

I think one of the primary assumptions made by the minister or counselor is that the person has a good grasp of what and who they are even agreeing to or 'receiving'. Paul was at times 'long preaching' as an attempt to make sure that he had delivered all necessary for faith in Christ to become effectual. Paul's objective, so it seems to me, was not to try to 'score' a soul for God as if God were keeping score or something; but to bring the person into genuine reconciliation with God that resulted in communion with Him. He was not content to get the person to agree to some points of facts and doctrine; he was looking for that miracle of death and resurrection that takes place in a life that is truly baptised 'into' Jesus Christ.

I think this is why we read how Jesus talked about taking up their cross and following Him, etc. There was always a sense that when a person left off to follow Christ- that they left [i]all[/i] to follow him. Not their God-given responsibilities; but the things that they used to find fulfillment in. They left off from those things wherein having been born again they are now ashamed of. This is a radical transformation. And that transformation has to be the indwelling presence of Christ by the Holy Spirit that comes in when we cease to resist Him and take hold of Him with all that is within us.

Christ in you, event or process.
Heres my story.
I said the sinners prayer when I was 19.
tried to be a christian, never quit sinning but tried to.
I went to church, married a churched girl, had kids who I took to church.
I was angry, hateful, hurtful, would always confess my sins, but ultimately not be able to stop sinning, which ultimately didnt want to.
My marriage of 17 years was about to end and I was angry with God and everyone else.
I finally ended up going to an accountability group trying to fix my marriage, basically wanted to fix my wife.
I was the one who was broken!
During one meeting when everyone was giving me advice about my wife I heard the spirit of God speak to me and he said, give me your heart, follow me and I will fix your marriage.
I sat there and with just my mind in front of 6 other guys I said to God, ok God you win.
I starting to day Lord, Im going to read the bible and what ever I discover Im going to do, follow no matter what.
AT that instant I felt something like this.
I felt like warm honey hit the top of my head and spread down my neck, shoulders arms and my whole body.
Every one in the room said, hey what's going on with you. It looks like a light just came on or something with you.
I had an event, and everything in my life that God hated just dropped away from me, I started for the first time to be a true follower of Christ and I knew it. My wretchedness he took away from me.
Now as the years have gone by I realise im in a process as well, due to the fact I can look back over each year and realise im different than the year before, God is always showing me things about myself that need to change, Repent of and allow him to mold me into who he wants me to be, for him, for his glory. It's by this grace he gave me to life for him and his grace to be empowered to change for him.
I could never do it before, because I was lost and unfortunately my original church lacked the power to make me realise this, they said I was always saved. maby I could play the game, but be rest assured, unless Christ truly comes into you and changes you, you will be and are lost.
I hope this helps someone.
God Bless.

Question #2 When were they justified? When they accepted the free gift and were saved, they are justified by HIS blood and if they are justfied by HIS blood they are saved.

question # 3 When did they receive the spirit?When they confessed and accepted HIM as both Lord and savior and also acknowledging HIM as Lord and received HIS SPIRIT and became a new creation.

Can you explain the difference between these two?

Whether one receives His Spirit is all dependant upon whether when they prayed that pattern of prayer with the mouth and it was with the heart also. He knows all. Others will see a it change in their life. He also knows when it was only done with the mouth.
He also gives some insight to those who have His spirit on whether another person has His spirit or not, by their lifestle and conversation and at times knowledge and understand of His Word as they either grow or glot.

I'm not sure that you have seen my point yet. My point is that in the New Testament people received Christ by receiving the Spirit, they did not receive the Spirit as a consequence of 'receiving Christ' in the modern evangelical sense of that phrase.

We make an assumption that anyone who has Christ has the Spirit but this is the opposite to the New Testament which seems to show that anyone who receives the Spirit receives Christ.

The question lurking behind my question is 'how does a man or a woman know that they have 'received the Spirit'?

...I had an event, and everything in my life that God hated just dropped away from me, I started for the first time to be a true follower of Christ and I knew it. My wretchedness he took away from me.
Now as the years have gone by I realise im in a process as well...

Greetings bro Ron in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

you ask an interesting question and that Christ entering into a man's heart has been reduced to a formula, the sinner's prayer is quite a terrible thing i believe. i believe that Christ entering the heart of a man is not so much contingent on the man as it is on God Himself showing Mercy. The man can't call on God unless God calls him first, see John 6 for example. The point at which a man is called by God is somewhere before the setting of the foundations of the world, that is the same point at which Christ was slain for the redemption of creation when creation was a concept in the Mind of God, see Revelation chapt 13. So what shall we say then? Christ enters the heart of the man whom God has called because of the Mercy of the Father. What this Mercy then does is allow for this which we see in Acts 2:

[b]35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? [/b] this question is the same as what you are asking to which Peter answers:

[i][b]38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [/b][/i]

in John 6 we see the tragedy of the fallen state of man, unable to even know he is depraved and in need of Salvation except God shows him so and gives him grace to call upon the Son. That is nobody can come to the Son except the Father draws him and this results in the obedience to what Peter calls upon these men to do (namely confessing and repenting of sin) in response to being pricked in their hearts by the conviction of Holy Spirit. this is the event part.at this point, Holy Spirit begins to work in a man's life to conform him to the Image of Jesus and this is the process part.

in the end, it all rests on God and His Mercy without which we have no clue we need Salvation let alone ability to gather up what it takes to ask for it.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.