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Theology

Concerning Adam

sermonindex Sep 2, 2007

This a part of longer paper I am in the process of writing. I believe this much can shed some light on what I have already has been offered up. It is with that hope I submit this much. If you don't agree, that's alright. However, I am not looking for my words to be represented. Pleasee read carefully before kicking any of it out.
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Concerning Adam

The question has been many times asked, “Why did God create Adam if He knew Adam would fail”, which begs another question: “Fail at what”? Answering the second question will help explain the reason for asking the first one.

Let’s look at this passage from Ephesians picture that Paul readily saw and understood and, as a result of that revelation understanding, wrote all his letters with it as central to his perspective:

[i]“ But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,”[/i] Hebrews 2:9-11 (KJV)

Ok. We can see that ‘many sons for Father’ is the reason for creation and procreation would be the only means they would ever come into existence. We know that because “Procreation ‘R’ us”. He would not nor could not individually create us as did He the Angels, who have no redeemer nor can ever have one. Ask the question: “How many redeemers would be needed for each of God’s fallen creatures, if He created them all individually”? Moses was commanded to strike the ‘rock’ once. Never again is the ‘Rock’ to be smitten for mankind. We know that is true and we will one day see the single set of nail prints in the hands of Jesus. The Disciples saw them first on that day in the upper room. Only one set could and will ever be.

[i]”And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”[/i] Hebrews 6:5-6 (KJV)

Knowing that Adam would fail was certainly in the foreknowledge of the Father, however, Father still had to; was compelled to, follow through with His “soon to fail” creation while, at the same time, make provision for its redemption. Make no mistake about this: Adam was given humanity to its fullest degree/strength; that superhuman degree and no more, for a test Adam alone must pass. No one could come to his aid in this. It should be understood at this time that Adam was not divine in anyway. Though he came from Hand of Divinity; Divinity formed him from dust, there was not a speck of Divinity in him. Keep in mind he was NOT perfect. Only Divinity can ever perfect. However, Adam was “perfectly innocent”. Innocence that needed to be filled with “perfection”; the result of moral choices given him that would have accomplished the task, i.e., Transfiguration, the eating of the Tree of Life whereby he would have lived forever as the Father intended….Divinity would have happened.

Saying this does not mean procreation would have ceased. Procreation was still to be the means for birthing sons and bringing them into Glory; grooming them for Divine life.. Obviously the “new birth” or second birth would not have been needed had Adam succeeded in passing his test[s].

This not about self-righteous flesh accomplishing anything for or in God but flesh, by revelation, totally submitting to the will of the Father.

[i]”Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:”[/i]Hebrews 10:5 (KJV)

This spoken by Christ, the Word of God, not the Son of God. The Son of God was begotten in human flesh as “son of man” to become Transfigured for all in Glory to marvel at. This Transfiguration of Jesus was about Christ, the Logos, having been perfected in the life of Jesus, son of man, to be forever revealed in his now Glorified human flesh as the new Christ of Glory! A Glorified human body of Flesh and Bone forever.

However, before He was begotten in human flesh it was intended that the Christ of Glory inhabit a created body, that of Adam, son of God.

Interesting thing here is this passage that confirms this: [b]“Jesus was begotten of ….. the son of Adam, the son of God.”[/b] Luke 3:38

Another interesting thing is that as Adam was given to procreate sons, in Jesus sons are also to be "procreated" for the Father but by a new creation; a new life giving Spirit. John 20.22.

The benefit that Adam never enjoyed that success be his is the Pentecostal experience, the empowerment for success. How then should we expect to succeed without it? Jesus said: "Don't leave Jerusalem until you receive it". Think what would have happened if Jesus had not this power when in His wilderness testing. 40 days without food or drink and then the onslaught of the devil. Even with this enduement, consider His struggle that only His allegiance-Love to the Father could 'power' Him through. It was His love that enabled-released the Angels to minister to Him. Would it not have been the same for Adam? Can we not see that God would have come to Adam with Himself to smite the enemy and reward Adam with His own Divine Nature? Should it now not be the same for us who claim, who brag about having His Nature by virtue of the new birth in Christ Jesus?

But where is the Character this new Nature is supposed to produce in us? We say we have the Nature but know and realize little of the Character process by which we are to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. I say Jesus Christ because Adam failed to become the embodiment of that image.

sermonindex Sep 2, 2007

From the other thread of yours.

Quote:Katy-did wrote:
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soooooo what you are saying then is in God's original plan (gone sour), All would then be saying

"That at the name of Adam I every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Adam I is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" ?????
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Ormly relied:

Thats right.


I can't even read what you've posted above here because you never moved from this quote and on two threads now - have pushed a heresy that demeans Creator God.
I wrote you a very long post - and it was in vain.

Rather than writing more - you should be praying and seeking the Lord of Glory.
We are praying for you.
Jesus Loves you - Jesus is The Truth and desires us to know Him - in Spirit and in Truth.

sermonindex Sep 2, 2007

Ormly wrote:
Christinyou,

You will never connect the dots using that thinking.


THINK! Jesus, "son of Adam" ......


JESUS was NOT "the son of Adam" !

The specific reason why HE was not born of the seed of Joseph but by the Holy Spirit - so as not to have Adam as his father.

sermonindex Sep 2, 2007


HE_Reigns wrote:
From the other thread of yours.

Quote:Katy-did wrote:
------------------------------------------
soooooo what you are saying then is in God's original plan (gone sour), All would then be saying

"That at the name of Adam I every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Adam I is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" ?????
-------------------------------------------
Ormly relied:

Thats right.


I can't even read what you've posted above here because you never moved from this quote and on two threads now - have pushed a heresy that demeans Creator God.
I wrote you a very long post - and it was in vain.

Rather than writing more - you should be praying and seeking the Lord of Glory.
We are praying for you.
Jesus Loves you - Jesus is The Truth and desires us to know Him - in Spirit and in Truth.

Your post only dealt with redemption and what the NT says about it.

What I am posting is not primarily about redemption. Redemption is only part of the story of the Work of Gross. I am doing my darndest to give you the rest of it. But you are stuck in redemption only mode. Try to extricate yourself from it and move in Christ.

Having said that I want you to show where Adam would NOT have become Lord had he obeyed God. Why would you or anyone, who say they read the bible for understanding, believe otherwise? I am forced also to believe that you believe God created Adam tso he could fail, "making" redemption necessary. Redemption wouldn't have been necessary had Adam not failed. Where is the heresy in that reasoning??!!

sermonindex Sep 2, 2007

Ormly wrote:
Your post only dealt with redemption and what the NT says about it.

Not true Ormly. Not true.

Here is my post.
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=19227&forum=36&start=70&viewmode=flat&order=0


And here are the posts of Philip and Katy, trying to make sense with you on Adam.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=18716&forum=36&start=60&viewmode=flat&order=0


GOD's plan did not fail, as you said on that first link.

GOD has always had just One Plan for mankind.


If you persist in saying "Plan A failed" - what you are saying about GOD is --- that HE is Not Omniscient and Omnipotent.

And if HIS Plans can fail --- we are all in a world of Mess!

He still loves you though.

sermonindex Sep 2, 2007


HE_Reigns wrote:
Ormly wrote:
Your post only dealt with redemption and what the NT says about it.

Not true Ormly. Not true.

Here is my post.
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=19227&forum=36&start=70&viewmode=flat&order=0


And here are the posts of Philip and Katy, trying to make sense with you on Adam.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=18716&forum=36&start=60&viewmode=flat&order=0


GOD's plan did not fail, as you said on that first link.

GOD has always had just One Plan for mankind.


If you persist in saying "Plan A failed" - what you are saying about GOD is --- that HE is Not Omniscient and Omnipotent.

And if HIS Plans can fail --- we are all in a world of Mess!

He still loves you though.

Lets not ignorant in this, ok. Adam failed = plan "a". Jesus succeeded = [plan "b".

For you or anyone to say otherwise is to say God intended for Adam to fail. God never works like that. He always wants success, but it to be in Him and no one else. So the problem of understanding lies with you and your limited view of the gospel.
Dollars to donuts you haven't read a word I wrote. So lets you quit with condemning my understanbding of the facts, ok?

sermonindex Sep 2, 2007

Ormly, I don't like endless posts of arguing as you've done on every other thread.
I did not say "God intended for Adam to fail" in my post to you in that link.
God did not cause Adam to choose to sin. I need not explain again about "freewill" and so forth that I posted in that first link.
You are proving now that it is you that truly doesn't read the posts of others.
Philip tried and some others, but you are stuck with putting others down in every thread you have been on, as I also wrote before. Now that it finally has come out what you do believe - I think it's best for all of us to just pray.
You may want to keep your dollars and donuts for some rainy day, because I've read every post you've written. I've gone back as far as May of this year.
We're commanded to "Search" things out.
And to not judge without "a fair Hearing".
I take those commands seriously and in all respects.
No one has condemned you, but we are allowed Biblically to disagree with your interpretation of "Adam as Lord" and so forth, that is posted above in your talk with others and so forth.
We will agree to firmly disagree and leave you to your private revelation, if you insist.
We only have His Word - which should be "quoted" verbatum.
Keep His Love.

sermonindex Sep 2, 2007

Good, however, I will continue writing my heresy but will gladly repent in the freshlight of His daily revelation.


Please don't pray for me. I am choosee about who I want praying for me.

sermonindex Sep 2, 2007

Ormly, I don't just read posts - I'm also commanded to weep with those who weep. That to me means - I should look past words to what may be in the person's feelings. I feel for you in the sense of not sympathy - but feel in the sense of a pain in my heart - but not because of your 'doctrine' - but for a sense of the hurts you have been through in life. No one who hasn't been terribly hurt would say to a few people now - "don't pray for me". You hurt others because you are hurting or just are hurt.
I may seem hard as nails - but wept as I wrote that long one yesterday - and feel we are to never give any corrective words unless we are brought to tears first. If we don't feel that compassion toward the ones we may come in conflict with - we are not like Him in any regard. I wouldn't mind if you prayed for me at all. Thank you if you will. In Jesus Name.

sermonindex Sep 2, 2007


HE_Reigns wrote:
Ormly, I don't just read posts - I'm also commanded to weep with those who weep. That to me means - I should look past words to what may be in the person's feelings. I feel for you in the sense of not sympathy - but feel in the sense of a pain in my heart - but not because of your 'doctrine' - but for a sense of the hurts you have been through in life. No one who hasn't been terribly hurt would say to a few people now - "don't pray for me". You hurt others because you are hurting or just are hurt.
I may seem hard as nails - but wept as I wrote that long one yesterday - and feel we are to never give any corrective words unless we are brought to tears first. If we don't feel that compassion toward the ones we may come in conflict with - we are not like Him in any regard. I wouldn't mind if you prayed for me at all. Thank you if you will. In Jesus Name.


If this is all you purpose to do, please spare me your tears, sympathies, brokenheartedness and otherwise, off track "bawlderdash". And I don't want your prayers because I am fussy [I said choosee at first, but you may not have been paying attention] about who it is that have praying for me.

This is my last to you unless you have something of substance to say with regards to the my thread topic..

Can you hear me?

sermonindex Sep 2, 2007

I know that the subject matter of this thread is the truth of the gospel; part of the good news Father wants made known to as many who have ears to hear.

I find it remarkable that the first responses smack of Satanic origin. I sense it; I feel it. Perhaps I should rejoice for being blessed with such a message. However, it isn't just mine but one that has been around for years and I am, by the revelation of Jesus Christ having it ministered to me by the Holy Spirit, and I make no apologies in that it may be a bit presumptous in someones thinking that I believe that and, of course, they are bound to tell me that.. I know that I know, what I written is truth. Incomplete perhaps, but the truth nonetheless, unless Father reveals to me otherwise it will be at that time I will repent and adjust accordingly, [b]allowing Him alone to rectify my thinking[/b].

sermonindex Sep 2, 2007

I'll post this again:

Let's go back to the Garden of Eden and see where the truth lies.

Genesis never deifies Adam. How can we have something offered which could never exist in the first place? If Adam was to have deity by any definition, why would Satan bother to offer to Adam and Eve,the opportunity to become "as gods"?


Yes, there is a promise in the Bible that we can become gods. But notice who made the promise. SATAN! And he is still making the same vain promise today. But the Lord God says,

Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. Is. 43:10

I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. Is.45:5

With Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did


Ormly, unless you believe Jesus Christ WAS/IS and will always be God, from the BEGINNING, who prayed with the Father in John 17:4 Glorify me WITH THINE OWN SELF WITHTHE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.


Unless you believe this to be true,

[b][color=CC0000]Verse 24: For thou lovedst *ME* before the foundation of the world.[/color][/b]

Jesus prayer *before* HE went to Calvary,

That Jesus IS THE Christ, and we were Chosen in Him and Him alone before the foundation of the World...clarifies more fully God's eternal plan of bringing sons into Glory IN CHRIST ALONE.

Because you are preaching ANOTHER Jesus, not found in the scriptures is the beginning and end of this false doctrine Satan had blinded your eyes to hoping you will persuade yourself and others to climb over some other way.

When JESUS was on earth HE said...I AM THE DOOR. HE open the door to the very presence of the Father, through His shed Blood, also that BLOOD was presented at the alter in Heaven. Hebrews.

He has opened A NEW AND LIVING WAY, through the veil, that is to say His flesh, that at that same moment, the veil in Solomon's Temple was rent, signifying the way into the HolY of Holies has been opened. It is those who are washed in His Blood, and stand FORGIVEN IN CHRIST ALONE who have access to the Holy of Holies, to the Father Himself, who reveals the wisdom and Knowledge THAT IS IN CHRIST, to the Glory fo the Father.

Therefore: Your special revelations that contradict the very WORD who became flesh and dwelt among us,

1. Who now dwells in us,

2. Where only dwells the wisdom and knowledge of HIMSELF

3. Which is *CHRIST IN YOU* THE HOPE OF GLORY.

Is not the Jesus Christ YOU present.

Satan is a liar (who can treanform himself into an angel of light a preacher of righteousness), and has been one from the beginning, who would say and do anything to besmirch Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, His WORD, just as he did Eve from the beginning, who was a liar from the beginning.

Those here who DO KNOW the Lord ARE praying for you. PRIDE says, I don't need you or anyone. That is the epitome of PRIDE and you also know who is the father of pride?

No scripture is of any private interpretation.

The BODY of Christ is of ONE MIND and ONE ACCORD, ONE FAITH.

With Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did

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