Hypocrites | SermonIndex

L

LiveforGod Sep 5, 2007

Imagine this happening to you.

One Sunday morning during service, a 2,000 member congregation was surprised to see two men enter, both covered from head to toe in black and carrying sub-machine guns. One of the men proclaimed, "Anyone willing to take a bullet for Christ, remain where you are."

Immediately, the choir fled, the deacons fled, and most of the congregation fled. Out of the 2,000, there only remained around 20. The man who had spoken took off his hood, looked at the preacher and said, "Okay Pastor, I got rid of all the hypocrites. Now you may begin your service. Have a nice day!" And the two men turned and walked out.

J

jordanamo Sep 5, 2007

I know this is a hypothetical, but it raises interesting ethical questions. I'd consider the two men with sub-machine guns walking into a Church and making a theatrical display for some supposedly good purpose of weeding out the hypocrites-- hypocrites themselves. Not the people that fled. That's not hypocritical, that's (for most of them) watching out for your family. If I had some kids and a wife to protect and a guy came in a church I was attending with a sub-machine gun and said "if you want to take a bullet for your God, line up," (or even "If you worship God, line up for a bullet") I would be making sure my family got out. Then, after making sure there were no kids leftover and there was nothing I could do to stop the perpetrators, I would leave. I'm fine with being martyred, but not in this manner.

D

dohzman Sep 6, 2007

Something like that really happened during WW2 in Germany only it was the SS that came in and threatened to kill all christians, they gave everyone else a chance to exit, a few stayed.

That said, my only question to the poster is has he/she ever had a loaded gun placed to thier head and thier life threatened like that?(and yes I know that some fancy big name evangelists use such examples to make a point, I have little respect for such, personally speaking) If not, than they really have no right to make an issue on anyone who may have been in that room, fictious or not.For those wondering, yes I have had a loaded gun placed to my head for the cause of Christ and no I did not deny Him and yes I was very much afraid. I think we often place people in circumstances that are beyond our own experiences and we do great damage to the christian persona or what christianity should and often times does look like from the worlds point of view. Knowledge is one thing, maybe even some wisdom, but when we move onto the areana of experiences we tread upon Holy ground and need to exercise much care so as not to defame christianity while trying to make a point. Rember Jesus told the angels to wait when the tares were growing beside the wheat, He was cautious not to damage the wheat, I think some of our observations and stories may damage wheat.

sermonindex Sep 7, 2007

[color=115522]moe wrote: The Pastor could get same results, as the men with the hoods and machine guns, if preached with complete abandonment of himself by in the Spirit's power and when HE truly preached the Word of God as it is written.

When God's Word is preached with authority that HE God gives the preacher in Jesus name, the end result will be either, the hypocrites will attempt to get rid of the Pastor or will leave the church, one of the two. Only the saved and in the center of HIS will truly desire to hear the whole council of God and how it relates to today world and will stay and serve. That's why we are not having revival in the church, not very many preachers are preaching the whole council of God, but watering down the Word and trying to be being politically correct, because they don't lose their hypocrites that are promoting sin, because that would hurt the church's membership report that they send in to the association office and would make them look like a bad Pastor that did not have the love of God in them which is hogwash. A

The Pastor or the preacher could not have any greater love than when give someone the whole truth, the truth that will change their life now and also give them eternal life in heaven. Of course most modern day churches would try to fire the Apostle Paul.

Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
KJV[/color]

I

iansmith Sep 7, 2007

I'd actually heard about a similar situation happening in Russia during the Cold War.

A military officer supposedly walked into a church service and demanded that everyone leave who wasn't willing to die for the faith. Brandishing a gun, he said he would test them all.

Once everyone had left but those who would stand up for their faith in Jesus, he announced that he was secretly a believer in Christ and that he was looking for a group of believers to fellowship with. But that he was afraid he would be compromised by anyone but the true church, so he used that method to separate the sheep from the goats so to say.

Don't know if the story is true, don't remember where I heard it, but it's much better than the one mentioned here.

sermonindex Sep 7, 2007

Okay Pastor, I got rid of all the hypocrites. Now you may begin your service. Have a nice day!" And the two men turned and walked out.

Since roughly 40-50% of pastors in North America view pornography (and are clearly not saved according to 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 1 John 3, etc) I would hope they ran too that they might have time to repent and get right with God.

In Christ - Jim

H

hmmhmm Sep 7, 2007

O hypocrite, you think that you shall excel, because the minister has been duped, and gives you credit for a deep experience; because the deacons have been entrapped and think you to be eminently godly; because the church members receive you to their houses, and think you a dear child of God too! Poor soul! Perhaps you may go to your grave with the delusion in your brain that all is right with you; but remember, though like a sheep you are laid in your grave, Death will find you out. He will say to you, off with your mask, man! Away with all your robes! Up with that whitewashed sepulcher! Take off that green turf; let the worms be seen. Out with the body; let us see the reeking corruption! And what will you say when your abominably corrupt and filthy heart shall be opened before the sun, and men and angels hear your lies and hypocrisies laid bare before them? Will you play the hypocrite then? Soul, come and sing God's praises in the Day of Judgment with false lips! Tell him now, while a widow's house is in your throat, tell him that you love him! Come, now, you that devour the fatherless, you that rob, you that do uncleanness! Tell him now that you make your boast in the Lord! Tell him that you preach his word; tell him that you walk in his streets; tell him you make it known that you were one of the excellent of the earth! What! Man, is your babbling tongue silent for once? What is the matter with you? You were never slow to talk of your godliness. Speak out, and say "I took the sacramental cup; I was a professor." Oh how changed! The whitewashed sepulcher has become white in another sense; he is white with horror. See now; the talkative one has become dumb; the boaster is silent; the formalist's garb is torn to rags, the moth has devoured their beauty; their gold and their silver has become tarnished. Ah! it must be with every man who has thus lied to God and to his own conscience.

Spurgeon

C

crsschk Sep 7, 2007

~~[i]~~Brother![/i]

Wow ...

What! Man, is your babbling tongue silent for once?

This is powerful brother

H

hmmhmm Sep 7, 2007

Imagine sitting and listening to spurgeon preached that,

Preaching sure changed

sermonindex Sep 7, 2007

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=17965&forum=34&4

Preaching has changed because men are not willing to walk their talk.
Thank you for these articles.

U

UniqueWebRev Sep 15, 2007

hmmhmm wrote:
O hypocrite...Tell him now that you make your boast in the Lord! Tell him that you preach his word; tell him that you walk in his streets; tell him you make it known that you were one of the excellent of the earth!...You were never slow to talk of your godliness. Speak out, and say "I took the sacramental cup; I was a professor."....
Spurgeon

And yet, even so, I do boast in the Lord...for it is He who saves me, and all others that, despite their inability to stop being human, their inability to observe the bare minimum of Christian behavior, their inability to do ~~[i]~~anything[/i] good of themselves, still yet hope in the Lord.

Yes, I take that cup, and so do all the other evildoers that walk on the earth, yet ~~[i]~~believe[/i], for there is none good, not one.

Oh, fine words indeed, that reach the hearts of those that are already aware of their corruption, and touch no one else, for those that need to hear do not listen, and those listening are merely pained again to know how impossible it is for us to do well of our own strength.

Why do we dwell on words that only give us more pain, for we who trust in the Lord know already that we must wallow in our own evil until He comes to relieve us from it!

Dear God, is there no one to speak of Your grace?

sermonindex Sep 15, 2007

LiveforGod said

Imagine this happening to you.
One Sunday morning during service, a 2,000 member congregation was surprised to see two men enter, both covered from head to toe in black and carrying sub-machine guns. One of the men proclaimed, "Anyone willing to take a bullet for Christ, remain where you are."
Immediately, the choir fled, the deacons fled, and most of the congregation fled. Out of the 2,000, there only remained around 20. The man who had spoken took off his hood, looked at the preacher and said, "Okay Pastor, I got rid of all the hypocrites. Now you may begin your service. Have a nice day!" And the two men turned and walked out.

I question the motives behind asking such a question. Are you asking us posters to examine our own choices in said example - would I choose to run and live or stay and die? Or is this your way of illuminating the seperation of the gold from the dross in a trial by fire?

If you're asking me to hypothetically examine my motives and individual level of faith in God, I must affirm ignorance of what actions I would take in said situation. Better men than me have run from purposeless persecution: Abraham ran from Ur. Lot ran from Sodom. Jacob ran from Esau. The Hebrews ran from Egypt. David ran from Saul. Jesus ran from the pharisees in the Temple. Peter ran from the prison...

William Tyndale ran from the paupists and from the Throne of England until he was finally caught and martyred in Belgium...

The "Woman" in Revelation "flies" from the Dragon's persecution into the wilderness...

Just because a bully says something to the effect of, "Anyone willing to take a bullet for Christ, remain where you are", doesn't mean that bullet is for Christ.

More on running:

"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains..." (MARK 13:14)

"...Remember Lot's wife..." (LUKE 17:32)

"...And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues..." (REV 18:4)

Again, if you are attempting to illuminate the seperation of the gold from the dross, the Lord Himself is a "consuming fire" (DEUT 4:24, HEB 12:29). His trials for man begin on Earth and end in heaven. Taking a "bullet for Christ" is no more or less a test of faith than eschewing pornography or giving generously to those in need.

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." (JAM 2:10)

"But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God." (JOHN 3:21)

Even so, maryrdom is inevitable as it is invaluable to the growth of the Church:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit." (JOHN 12:24)

I don't feel this thread is very edifying, or even respectful for all the martyrs who have given their lives for the Cause of Christ down through the centuries.

We affluent, Western, armchair Christians sitting safe and sound in front of our computer screens are the last ones who ought to be entertaining, or flirting with, romanticisations of martyrdom such as these.

Does anyone else recognize this as a form of spiritual pride?

G

ginnyrose Sep 15, 2007

Seems to me that rather then trying to discern the posters' motive for posting this question, I think it would help us to consider the question being asked. "Would I be willing to take the bullet for the sake of Christ?" This is not such a hypothetical question when one considers that it has been done in times past.

Richard Wurmbrand has said how they used to prepare candidates for baptism in Communist Romania. They would take the class to a zoo and there in front of the lions would ask: would you be willing to be thrown to the lions for the sake of Christ?" Now this was not such a hypothetical question: people there knew if they would submit to baptism, it would endanger their lives. This was the reality for them. We could learn a thing or two from them, don't you think?

Blessings,
ginnyrose

sermonindex Sep 15, 2007

ginnyrose,

My point is that we don't know who would and who would not take a bullet for Christ. Many of those who think they would, probably wouldn't. And those who believe themselves too cowardly to die for His Glorious Name, just might.

To me, this thread is about imagination vs. reality, idolatry vs. God.

I also think this discussion is light years away from Wurmbrand's experiences in Romania. Ours is fantasy. His was reality.

L

LiveforGod Sep 15, 2007

Hello Corey_H.

Brother I admire your zeal.

Brother, you went beyond what I thought to be a good Question in testing where we are before God.

Brother, you said some things that I belibe where not nessesary to be said.

Brother, Are you willing to Live and to Die, if needs be, for our Savior?

That is the Question.

I am sorry if in any way I have offended you by such a Question.

Love you in Christ.
Your most undeserving Brother.

sermonindex Sep 16, 2007

LiveforGod,

You didn't offend me. The hypothetical situation you posted, did.

As to saying more than was necessary, A.W. Tozer once stated that, with matters of faith and truth, "it's better better to go too far than not far enough".

When I read your post, I imagined how wonderfully faithful a good Christian like me would be... taking a bullet for Christ... standing up for the faith... even burning at the stake... Oh, how the people would speak of my courage and faithfulness... thousands would rally to Christ over my sacrifice... and, of course, there was that crown I'd recieve...

All that spiritual pride was compressed (or released) in a moment's time. And I'll bet I wasn't the only one that formed this type of image.

This hypothetical situation was a stumblingblock of pride for me, if even for a brief moment - and I doubt I was the only one.

As to your question whether I'm willing to "live and to die, if needs be, for our Saviour":

"For many are called, but few are chosen." (MATT 22:14)

I've been called. It remains to be seen whether I'm chosen.

sermonindex Sep 18, 2007

I think I'd heard the 'story' in the leading post of this thread, previously, and wasn't sure what to make of it. One assumes that the most spiritual thing to do is to die for Christ that day.

But, John several times points out that Jesus escaped from different dangers ~~[i]~~because[/i] His hour (to die) had not yet come. (This assumed more significance for me when I learned He had died at the time of the evening sacrifice. I guess this means that when the temple veil was torn in two, there were priests (who had recently called for His crucifixion), doing the business. They must have noticed ~~[i]~~something![/i])

Corey, I particularly enjoyed your thoughtful post and your division of the issues to consider, and the warning implicit when you said:

we don't know who would and who would not take a bullet for Christ. Many of those who think they would, probably wouldn't. And those who believe themselves too cowardly to die for His Glorious Name, just might.

For many years I knew I was so unhealed, that there was no way I could expect to ~~[i]~~stand[/i], if tortured and so I prayed the Lord would deliver me from failing Him in that way... which He has.

But now that He has also healed me profoundly, I've been recognising I can no longer expect such a deliverance... which has been quite a challenging thought... though not one on which I dwell morbidly.