God's Chosen Land?

[color=FF0000]Are you saying God doesn't have any power to bless a nation on earth? I read some or your post, but it did take many lines to see the agenda and in that agenda was the same ole rollover and ignorance of American history and I couldn't bare to read the what isn't and what was not history.

Just as man's works does not save him but he/she is saved unto good works. We don't work to be saved but because we are saved in thankfulness of the cross. In the same manner a man who is willing to do more than rollover and surrender to an enemy (terrorists)that all are full of the devil and his works, I just cannot figure out.

What has changed about a Godly man serving his nation since our nation began, and indeed loving HIS GOD first, family and country in that order. Yes, you are correct, our citizenship is in heaven. But we ain't there yet. If we indeed are christians, our eternity has already began at spiritual birth and in HIM through HIM everything will find it's purpose. This rollerover-surrender to the enemy agenda I can't even start to figure out. And for any American to make the statement that our country, America was not founded on Biblical principles after you walk through DC and see all the scripture on the buildings, the picture of Moses and other prophets, in the Supreme Courtroom and all the references to God and HIS WORD all throughout the capitol which I'm sure the liberals have already started a plan to remove. To read all the historical documents and statement by the framers and those after. The Senate always having a chaplin. The Senate in the past having prayer before each session. Many other things that tell us that America began dependant upon God not only for eternity but here on earth as well. Our declaration of independence was only independence from other nations rule but also a declaration of totally dependency upon on God.

PastorFrin it is not my desire to be contentous, but this is just pure ignorance of has been for 200 years of history. It has all started with some groups and agenda for what I don't know, that says "what's God got to do with it". This crew arrived on the scene about 40 years ago, of which it appears and seems you are a card carrying member of. Brother you may be a veteran and a pastor and may have knowledge of the scripture, but your American history is very limited in knowledge of the nation dependency on God. I respectfully disagree with your American history and the fact that American the past was much more devoted a Holy God in numbers than the present and also disagree with the statement or attitude or insinuation that God hasn't enabled Americans to help other nations financially and help many nations fight and prevent communist aggression to achieve and the same freedom that we have enjoyed for 200+ years, the freedom to worship God without being interfered with or to have the option to be ignorant and not worship if it was ones choice. I can't figure why they fight anyone speaking about Jesus. You can't force Jesus on anyone. It must be voluntary. I also would like to remind you of the fact that Jesus came to world that through HIM the world might be saved and not to condemn the world but to give those who would accept SON and HIS free gift not only for eternal life but life more abundantly here on earth, but only for those who make HIM both Lord and Savior.
To have the attitude you are talking about here and the message you are conveying, there are many things you could exclude from your expense account and save money.
Fire Alarms in your home.
Door Locks on your Home or your car.
Seat belts
No doctor bills, just don't go if your sick.
Have a block put on 911 on your phone.

One with this attitude could move to another country that didn't have those military guys and police to protect them and ruining their nations name as you say they are.
You get the general idea of what I'm saying, need I say more.[/color] :-D

jlosinski wrote:
May not be totally on subject, but I think that the body of Christ in North America needs some old fashioned physical persecution. I'm not saying this to be flippant, such persecution has always flamed the refining fire of God in true hearts.

No legal battles in court as to the definition of "free speech" concerning religion, you are unjustly tried and punished for spreading the Gospel. No legal loopholes, just confessing to the rock of offense and taking your unjust punishment as a disciple of Christ.

It seems that it would a sort of chastisment for the body of Christ, a disciplining for the weak gospel that is in our country today, I think that we have lost sight of the justice of God.
Joe

moe_mac wrote: It appears to me God has withdrawn HIS SPIRIT from those who want to compromise their devotion and service to God with the people who consider Allah to be the one that is worthy of and more than equal to Jesus. They call it being religiously tolerant. Another one of their pet watered down names for sin. Of course we know that Islam doesn't even acknowledge Jesus as prophet much less know who he is in being the Lord of Glory to those who believe. I believe God has the power to stop the terorist and HE will stop them in HIS time table and just exactly how he will do it, I don't know. You can't ignore the God of Abraham, Isaiac and Jacob, the one who sent HIS SON to take the sins of the world upon HIM in grace and mercy and love for justice in what we could not do for ourselves and not see HIS Wrath in time.

I pray for a great awakening in people's lives to clearly see and stand against evil and stand for the Lord of Glory. God's Word unites a nation when HE is accepted as Lord as HE once was, division comes when HIS LORDSHIP and word it is not accepting.
SINFULL REALIZATION CAN PRODUCE the WISDOM to ASK FORGIVENESS FROM HIM which lead to forgiveness and to thanksgiving and which leads to repentance
Repentance leads to HIS Lordship.
Lordship leads to a relationship with the Lord of Glory, Jesus
Relationship leads to victory!

pastorfrin wrote:
Moe wrote:

Are you saying God doesn't have any power to bless a nation on earth?

Moe wrote:

I read some or your post, but it did take many lines to see the agenda and in that agenda was the same ole rollover and ignorance of American history and I couldn't bare to read the what isn't and what was not history.

No, and a question of this sort proves you are jumping to conclusions from your own preconceived ideas; showing all you have not read the post, but instead, choose to interject your assumptions as truth.

Moe wrote:

One with this attitude could move to another country that didn't have those military guys and police to protect them and ruining their nations name as you say they are.

May I suggest reading all the post before you so quickly throw me and all others who question, out of the country I have fought for, and seem to according to some, have a right to a voice?

Moe you remind me of one who is suffering from PTSD, I have been their and work around those who are suffering from it at the present time.
You need to stop accusing me of promoting the teaching ‘What has God got to do with it’; your accusations are unfounded and untrue and only stem from your own imagination.
I know very well what God has to do with it, and have never advocated any such thing.

Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior and I take very seriously His command to:

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. [35] By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Galatians 5:15
But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

Moe, we are brothers in the Lord and though brothers may disagree they are still brothers.
Please read the lines and not between the lines, if you have a question, ask in love and I am more then willing to answer in love.

I have spent many years proclaiming that Jesus Christ is the only one who can set one free and He alone is the only way to the Father. “Whom the Son sets free is free indeed”, there is no freedom other than what He gives. I know, for He Has Set me Free.

We need to continually ask ourselves, is the love of Jesus Christ our only motivation, or are we serving another?

Romans 1:9
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

In His Love
pastorfrin

[color=003399]moe_mac revealed:Pastorfrin I have not questioned your love for the Lord. I do question the definition of what exactly an expression of HIS love to others would mean in the scriptures and the expression of love and resistence against evil in military action to help others and also what some consider our framers meant in the constituion in the definition of separation of church and state in the nation for 200 years and then changed it, about HIS love in defending the weak and helpless and those who are oppressed by dictators is an expression of HIS love I believe.

And to answer one of your other questions, Pastorfrin, I know there will be some who will probably use this against me on SI, but I believe in being truthful. When I made Jesus Lord I have took lying out as an option and when one does it will change their life. You hit the nail on the head, yes, I have been diagnosed with and do suffer from PTSD from 40 years ago from events from military service, also COPD, Arthritus, Hypertention, hearing loss, among other things, and I do ask for your prayers and prayers from others as well, but I must say PTSD has nothing to do with the question at hand or the scriptures and devotion to God first and family second or my country third nor does it have anything to do with my comments being truthful in the history of the USA. If it were not for the Lord Jesus Christ and HIS love I would not be able to cope. He is my strength, my Lord and my salvation and in HIM I will trust.
In His Love also
moe_mac[/color]

I know there will be some who will probably use this against me on SI, but I believe in being truthful.

Not on our watch Brother Moe. ;-)

You have nothing that would rob you of Christ and the ability to hear from Him through Scripture.
You heard "Eze 33" - and may I add, if not for this one difference of opinion you've been having with Pastorfrin, you have found a very close friend in him.
I would only pray, that these "earthly" differences that you presently have with him, would be over-shadowed with the fact that I personally believe he is an Eze 33 "watchman".
This is not to promote any man, but I've watched how things have progressed here and feel that in all of my travels and all of my years on this planet - that there are very more false prophets than there are true.
I pray your friendship with Brother Frin increases and earthly differences can be put aside. Soon they will not matter.
David had a Jonathan, if you know what I mean.
I find it an honor to find a Forum where there are ones that I can look up to, no matter how "seasoned" I may be regarding my age or whatnot.
Many here have formed that type of relationship/friendship with another or a few and that is natural and beneficial. They email each other and some even call on the phone to each other. To form a friendship here is no different than what goes on at our Churches.
There are sections of Eccles. 4 about two or three being better than one - that I think you'd appreciate.
I may not agree with you neither on these earthly issues, but that does not change the fact that I would defend you to the death.

Normally, I stay off of these type threads because I cannot agree with most on these earthly issues. More than likely because I know what is coming.
Our troops are being trained to turn against us.
Many are killing themselves because they see human decentcy being thrown out.
They are seeing their own fellow soldiers becoming in-human.
Yes, not all are bad - but I also am a Veteran Viet Nam era in my middle twenties - and this is not the same Military that I was in, nonetheless the same country and that is putting it mildly.
There came a point where the Lord told me to look UP and to HIM and nothing of this world - except to "watch the signs of the times".
So I find it is best to never split with a brother or go around and around over a topic which will soon be made evident to all.
Biblical Prophecy is being fulfilled as we speak and I can't see anything else worth focusing on but that and spiritually preparing for the days ahead. And as LittleGift said, "to help others to do so" --- that is to help others to get through victoriously "what is coming".
May HE Bless you with that Peace that passes ALL understanding. You are loved here.

pastorfrin wrote:
Moe wrote:

And to answer one of your other questions, Pastorfrin, I know there will be some who will probably use this against me on SI, but I believe in being truthful. When I made Jesus Lord I have took lying out as an option and when one does it will change their life. You hit the nail on the head, yes, I have been diagnosed with and do suffer from PTSD from 40 years ago from events from military service, also COPD, Arthritus, Hypertention, hearing loss, among other things, and I do ask for your prayers and prayers from others as well, but I must say PTSD has nothing to do with the question at hand or the scriptures and devotion to God first and family second or my country third nor does it have anything to do with my comments being truthful in the history of the USA. If it were not for the Lord Jesus Christ and HIS love I would not be able to cope. He is my strength, my Lord and my salvation and in HIM I will trust.

Brother Moe, we are practically twins, and definitely brothers in more than one way.
To quote HE_Reigns "Not on our watch"
Anyone that would hold what we have suffered and may still be suffering against us, is neither a christian or a follower of Christ. I to have suffered from PTSD, hypertension, arthritis and kidney cancer all possibly linked to events from military service from 42 years ago. You may have read my testimony on the 'we need to talk about peace' thread. I walked a very dark road brother and the Lord gloriously set me free. Praise His Wonderful Name!
Moe, I did not mean in any way that this has to do with what you believe, but how we express ourselves to others. We have a tendency to express ourselves, in what many feel is anger, when we are simply trying to make a point. After a few failed attempts to express myself, I began to write what I had to say, read it over, pray about it, sometimes change it and other times not to post it at all. Seems to work and there is never a rush, I can simply wait on the Lord.
Brother I respect your service and your beliefs and am proud to call you a Bother.

In His Love
pastorfrin

Thanks Pastorfrin and He_reigns for the kind words, support and friendship. I have many times in my prayers ask God if I was doing the right thing posting on SI and many times have listened intently for instructions from HIM, to post or not to post ever again, because often the way I come across in my post offends others. To offend if not my purpose or intentions. I not only have that problem of offending on SI, but also in my many face to face life relationships with other people, even my family. I know that when I read a post, if I knew more about the person posting, I could better answer the post and with more compassion than I normally do. Often we don't know what they are going through or have just been through in life's problems. Also we have many different cultures on SI that tend to be a hinderance in our communications. But as I have said before to others on SI. At the end of the of the day and the post, after all of us have given what God's Word says to us and as a result we have more love for each other, than we did prior to the post, it's worth the pain. I can say that is the case here in this post.
Thanks brothers and God Bless.
In HIS LOVE
moe
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Jer 51:5 For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel.
Jer 51:6 Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompense.
Jer 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.
Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Rev 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Rev 18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
Rev 18:13 And cinnamon, and odors, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Rev 18:14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
Rev 18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Rev 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to naught. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
Rev 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up forever and ever.
Rev 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshiped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
Rev 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

You guys want even stay with the subject at hand, are about what Hal Lindsey preaches and teaches. He by no means indicates in any form or fashion being an American makes one a christian. This is one of the main reason common ground is so hard to be reached between many differences on SI or many places for that matter. Hal Lindsey always preaches Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Sorry guys you are chasing rabbits!!!!!
Kinda reminds me of a toddler who had painting his bedroom wall with water colors. His Dad ask him. Did you do that? His reply," I think I did or not." Reminds me of these posts.

Moe wrote

Thanks Pastorfrin and He_reigns for the kind words, support and friendship. I have many times in my prayers ask God if I was doing the right thing posting on SI and many times have listened intently for instructions from HIM, to post or not to post ever again, because often the way I come across in my post offends others. To offend if not my purpose or intentions. I not only have that problem of offending on SI, but also in my many face to face life relationships with other people, even my family. I know that when I read a post, if I knew more about the person posting, I could better answer the post and with more compassion than I normally do. Often we don't know what they are going through or have just been through in life's problems. Also we have many different cultures on SI that tend to be a hinderance in our communications. But as I have said before to others on SI. At the end of the of the day and the post, after all of us have given what God's Word says to us and as a result we have more love for each other, than we did prior to the post, it's worth the pain. I can say that is the case here in this post.
Thanks brothers and God Bless.
In HIS LOVE
moe

I was really blessed by your words here.

One of the problems in a forum is that it's so easy to jump to conclusions about what someone is saying. I've done it myself, when the tone of a post, or my general impression/opinion of the poster seems aggressive and unreasonable.

Sometimes I find it impossible at first to read the post after the first few sentences because the tone or content upsets me and maybe makes me angry.

This seems to be what you did originally, but it's so good to see that you and Pastorfrin have "made up".

I don't have time just now to read the original post in detail, (will try to get back to it later). Also, not being American, it isn't as relevant to me personally as it is to many of you.

However, I would like to comment on something at the beginning, and also the impression gained when reading posts from those of you from the USA especially. Being Welsh, I can identify with American nationalism, though it takes a different form here.

In any nation with a history of strong national patriotism and identity there is a tendency to define ourselves by this. Even as Christians we look at our nation, remember how God has blessed us in the past, and imagine His special favour rests on us in some way.

While there is a measure of truth in that, ("righteousness exalteth a nation...") it can give us a false pride and sense of security. Also the wrong sort of patriotism.

The only nation that was ever special to God [i][u]as such[/u][/i] is Israel, because of her special place in His plan of salvation. And of course national pride was/is one of their faults too - even though the Lord made it clear that it was nothing to do with their righteousness but becaue of HIM! He also made it clear that the blessing of Abraham wasn't to be kept to themselves alone but to be shared with all the nations of the earth.

In Wales we have never of course been a great nation as such, never had an empire, but we have had revivals, we have had the Gospel, we have had great and powerful songs of worship that flowed from the Revival. During the Revival, it seems, they actually used to say that Welsh was the language of heaven!

When I was in college in Aberystwyth there was a lot of nationalism among the students. Including several evangelical lads, who I have little doubt were truly born again.

Yet their sense of national identity and pride in language, history and culture clouded their Christian witness, because it lead to superiority and smugness.

I said to one of them, "You are a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven first, a citizen of Wales second" And this boy who was more tolerant than most and didn't patronise me like some did because I'm not Welsh speaking, (though two sets of my great-grandparents were).

A warning agains that sort of wrong national pride and patriotism (there is a right sort) is surely part of what Pastorfrin was writing about?

Love in Jesus

Jeannette