What is a Freewill?

Do you have any scriptures to back up freewill? Not just one or two but a solid foundation that clearly supports this idea?

Brethren
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

yes we have free will in that we are participants in the Plan of God however God has predetermined all things according to His Plan to bring Glory to Himself Forever so our free will doesn't escape the confines of that Plan. So it is not a matter of Predestination vs Free will but it is predestination AND Free will together for the Purpose of the Glory of God Forever. our minds think that these 2 our mutually exclusive but they are not in God's Mind. And if we take our seats in the Heavens with God and See from His Perspective, this all makes sense. that we argue back and forth about either/or lets me know, we spend way too much time down here as opposed to in Heaven.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

Yet if man is a slave, how can he be free?

A slave may have "liberty" to make decisions, but those decisions are still based upon, and limited to the state of slavery within which the man exists.

So there is no such thing as "free will" as all men are bound by their will to do what it says, either to sin, or please God. One is the first state men are born into, and the second is the state produced by the new birth.

Romans 6:16-23 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Who delivered the doctrine to us? Who revealed Christ in us. 1 Corinthians 2:10-11 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Who made us free from sin? "But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." God has made us free.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

What can you do for a gift? Receive it.

"Servant"= Bond servant or slave. No choice here. Even if we did have free will.

A slave or bond servant cannot set himself free. Our old master would not set us free, our Master was changed at the Cross.
Who has set us Free? Our victorious New Master. Jhn 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. Now we have indeed free will to serve Him.

I am a Christ-one, a Christian, a son of God. Is this my Choice or Gods?

I did not choose Him, He chose me.

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Free will to sin, yes. Free will to be saved, I think not.

In Christ, by His choice from His Cross: Phillip

Lazarus1719 wrote:
This is for those of you who DO Believe in freewill. I know that numerous people on these boards do affirm that we have a freewill.

[u][b]What is a freewill?[/b][/u]

I define it this way:

- freewill is [b]the power of contrary choice[/b]: we can choose between good and evil.

- freewill is [b]the power of alternative choice[/b]: we can choose between good and evil.

- freewill is [b]the power of contingent choice[/b]: we are not necessitated one way or another, our choice is contingent.

- freewill is [b]the ability of self-determination[/b]: we ourselves are self-determining agents with the power to determine for ourselves our own moral conduct and condition.

- freewill is [b]the ability to originate moral action[/b]: sin is not something back of the will which forces the will to sin, but sin is a wrong use of freewill, freewill originates good and evil.

Brother,

what you have just described is self will. The will is never free apart from God. Adam and Eve thought that they could have free will by eating of the tree of good and evil and thereby choose for themselves instead of God's will choosing for them. That was the fall. The trap is that their will, when not in total submission to God's will, became not free at all but a slave to sin. The spirit they had died and they lost their divine nature altogether.

Whyme wrote:

Adam and Eve thought that they could have free will by eating of the tree of good and evil and thereby choose for themselves instead of God's will choosing for them. That was the fall. The trap is that their will, when not in total submission to God's will, became not free at all but a slave to sin

This is not in line with what Scripture teaches...

The very first example given to us after the fall of man teaches this way...

Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

In this section of Scripture we find that God gives both Abel and Cain the knowledge of Him and His will. We find that Abel obeyed and Cain disobeyed.

Then we hear in verse 7 that God exhorts Cain to repent. God also warns Cain the "sin" is at the door and that it is his desire to place Cain in bondage to him.

We know according to Scripture that the final results of the choices that Abel and Cain made determined whose father they served. Abel was a prophet of God and God was His father. Cain chose Satan as his father.

From the very beginning of man we have this testimony in Scripture. Likewise if you read Proverbs chapters 1 through 9 and Romans 1 you will see that God is active in all men's lives to turn them towards Him. And also according to these Scriptures we find that many are "turned over" by God to their destruction.

Christ always cried out...He who has ears let him hear...Christ is pointing to the choice that all are given...the question is who do we submit ourselves too?

In Christ
Jeff

rookie wrote:
Whyme wrote:

Adam and Eve thought that they could have free will by eating of the tree of good and evil and thereby choose for themselves instead of God's will choosing for them. That was the fall. The trap is that their will, when not in total submission to God's will, became not free at all but a slave to sin

This is not in line with what Scripture teaches...

The very first example given to us after the fall of man teaches this way...

Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

In this section of Scripture we find that God gives both Abel and Cain the knowledge of Him and His will. We find that Abel obeyed and Cain disobeyed.

Then we hear in verse 7 that God exhorts Cain to repent. God also warns Cain the "sin" is at the door and that it is his desire to place Cain in bondage to him.

We know according to Scripture that the final results of the choices that Abel and Cain made determined whose father they served. Abel was a prophet of God and God was His father. Cain chose Satan as his father.

From the very beginning of man we have this testimony in Scripture. Likewise if you read Proverbs chapters 1 through 9 and Romans 1 you will see that God is active in all men's lives to turn them towards Him. And also according to these Scriptures we find that many are "turned over" by God to their destruction.

Christ always cried out...He who has ears let him hear...Christ is pointing to the choice that all are given...the question is who do we submit ourselves too?

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Jeff,

The Scriptures are clear that we are slaves to sin apart from Christ. Further, if we are already free, what would the meaning of Scripture be to you when it says we are made free in Christ?

This is for those of you who DO Believe in freewill.

- freewill is the ability of self-determination: we ourselves are self-determining agents with the power to determine for ourselves our own moral conduct and condition.

- freewill is the ability to originate moral action: sin is not something back of the will which forces the will to sin, but sin is a wrong use of freewill, freewill originates good and evil.

There is no explanation in your Finney theology for sin as a power which rules. Yours is simply sin as a transgression. As such, in my judgment, you are right in what you say about sin as a transgression, but woe-fully adrift when it comes to understanding sin as a power.

With the conclusion that you come to, where does the Gospel come in to play? Why did Chist have to die?

great question, and might be at the heart of why the gospel according to Finney is often corrupt?

The natural man is able to will to do good but is incapable of doing it:
[b]Rom 7:19[/b] [color=990000]I don't do the good that I actually want to do, but I do the evil that don't want to do.[/color]

Therefore, the unregenerated man can not [b]do good[/b] even though he wants or [b]wills to do good[/b].

The unregenerated man can not [b]because[/b] he first must will to choose faith in order to do the good that he wills.

Only until man chooses to put his faith in Christ he will stay a slave of sin and not be ably to do what he wills for good.

The will is crippled in [b]doing[/b] any good but not in willing any good untill the will is in Christ.

After our will is to be in Christ (which is to have faith) we then will have a changed life, a new view on life, and a new motive for everything that you do. In these new aspects of your life will become actions or works([b]fruit[/b]) that give a testimony of Christ in you.

Brother Logic wrote:

Therefore, the unregenerated man can not do good even though he wants or wills to do good.

Neither can a regenerate man who does not submit to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Michael asked:

This is not a bait question, I am sincerely curious...

With the conclusion that you come to, where does the Gospel come in to play? Why did Chist have to die?

As Scripture points out, before the foundation of this world Christ was preordained to complete the prophesies spoken of in Scripture. The content of all that Christ did is written in Scripture for us to understand.

I believe Christ is the High Priest Melchizedeck in the OT. I believe He was the Holy One spoken of throughout the OT. And for what purpose did He serve as God's Most High Priest.

To direct the Holy Spirit in the ways spoken of in various Scriptures like Proverbs 1-9 and Psalm 119.

I believe that the evidence of God's plan is clearly established in the examples given to us in the testimonies of Cain and Abel. These testimonies commence with God declaring to Satan...

Gen. 3:15 \tAnd I will put enmity
\tBetween you and the woman,
\tAnd between your seed and her Seed;
\tHe shall bruise your head,
\tAnd you shall bruise His heel.”

Do we not see this declaration take root in the lives of Cain and Abel? This declaration describes the spiritual battle between the children of Satan and the co-heirs of Christ.

Prov. 8:1 Does not wisdom cry out,
\tAnd understanding lift up her voice?
2 \tShe takes her stand on the top of the high hill,
\tBeside the way, where the paths meet.
3 \tShe cries out by the gates, at the entry of the city,
\tAt the entrance of the doors:
4 \t“To you, O men, I call,
\tAnd my voice is to the sons of men.
5 \tO you simple ones, understand prudence,
\tAnd you fools, be of an understanding heart.
6 \tListen, for I will speak of excellent things,
\tAnd from the opening of my lips will come right things;
7 \tFor my mouth will speak truth;
\tWickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8 \tAll the words of my mouth are with righteousness;
\tNothing crooked or perverse is in them.
9 \tThey are all plain to him who understands,
\tAnd right to those who find knowledge.
10 \tReceive my instruction, and not silver,
\tAnd knowledge rather than choice gold;
11 \tFor wisdom is better than rubies,
\tAnd all the things one may desire cannot be compared with her.
12 \t“I, wisdom, dwell with prudence,
\tAnd find out knowledge and discretion.
13 \tThe fear of the LORD is to hate evil;
\tPride and arrogance and the evil way
\tAnd the perverse mouth I hate.
14 \tCounsel is mine, and sound wisdom;
\tI am understanding, I have strength.
15 \tBy me kings reign,
\tAnd rulers decree justice.
16 \tBy me princes rule, and nobles,
\tAll the judges of the earth.
17 \tI love those who love me,
\tAnd those who seek me diligently will find me.
18 \tRiches and honor are with me,
\tEnduring riches and righteousness.
19 \tMy fruit is better than gold, yes, than fine gold,
\tAnd my revenue than choice silver.
20 \tI traverse the way of righteousness,
\tIn the midst of the paths of justice,
21 \tThat I may cause those who love me to inherit wealth,
\tThat I may fill their treasuries.
22 \t“The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way,
\tBefore His works of old.
23 \tI have been established from everlasting,
\tFrom the beginning, before there was ever an earth.
24 \tWhen there were no depths I was brought forth,
\tWhen there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 \tBefore the mountains were settled,
\tBefore the hills, I was brought forth;
26 \tWhile as yet He had not made the earth or the fields,
\tOr the primal dust of the world.
27 \tWhen He prepared the heavens, I was there,
\tWhen He drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 \tWhen He established the clouds above,
\tWhen He strengthened the fountains of the deep,
29 \tWhen He assigned to the sea its limit,
\tSo that the waters would not transgress His command,
\tWhen He marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 \tThen I was beside Him as a master craftsman;
\tAnd I was daily His delight,
\tRejoicing always before Him,
31 \tRejoicing in His inhabited world,
\tAnd my delight was with the sons of men.
32 \t“Now therefore, listen to me, my children,
\tFor blessed are those who keep my ways.
33 \tHear instruction and be wise,
\tAnd do not disdain it.
34 \tBlessed is the man who listens to me,
\tWatching daily at my gates,
\tWaiting at the posts of my doors.
35 \tFor whoever finds me finds life,
\tAnd obtains favor from the LORD;
36 \tBut he who sins against me wrongs his own soul;
\tAll those who hate me love death.”

Do you see the promise and the hope of Christ in the Scriptures above?

Remember, Christ sent His apostles out to share the gospel long before He taught them that He would die. What gospel did He teach His apostles to preach?

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff

Brother Michael asks:

I still do not see where you are coming from. According to your conclusion, why would God have to become a man, suffer, and die?

Scripture prophesied so before Adam chose to obey Eve and disobey God. In like manner, Christ again, according to Scripture will come back as both God and man to rule over this earth...why does He have to do that, and what will we see and know then?

Job 19

25 \tFor I know that my Redeemer lives,
\tAnd He shall stand at last on the earth;
26 \tAnd after my skin is destroyed, this I know,
\tThat in my flesh I shall see God,
27 \tWhom I shall see for myself,
\tAnd my eyes shall behold, and not another.
\tHow my heart yearns within me!

Job knew his Savior...
In Christ
Jeff

Agreed, but why would He have to suffer and die?

Revelation 4:

11 \t“You are worthy, O Lord,
\tTo receive glory and honor and power;
\tFor You created all things,
\tAnd by Your will they exist and were created.”

The Father has determined all according to His will. According to His plan, He demonstated His love to His creation by the example of offering His own Son as a means of reconciling fallen men to Himself.

Rev. 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice:
\t“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
\tTo receive power and riches and wisdom,
\tAnd strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

In His plan, we see that His Son receives an inheritance. We too by way of the example that the Son has first demonstrated can enter into the inheritance and be adopted out of captivity to Sin who is Satan.

Paul teaches thus...

Romans 5:

8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

By His blood we are reconciled to the Father. But we are saved from the wrath of God by obeying the Holy Spirit which leads us to the "Life" that saves...

10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

According to Paul we are given the opportunity to walk in the same path as His Son. By walking in the path, by faith unto faith, we learn of His life. We learn of righteousness and by the leading of the Holy Spirit the motivations of our hearts take on the same hopes that the Son had when He gave His life for ours.

This "Life" that we learn to live is described in Proverbs 1-9. This "Life"; the light of life, is encompassed by the "wisdom" that Solomon writes about in this book. This "wisdom" is also taught in Psalm 119 in a different way. In Psalm 119 the word of God teaches us to recognize the "different aspects of relationship" that exist with the Spirit of God.

The book of Job also gives us this same "love story."

Job 33

25 \tHis flesh shall be young like a child’s,
\tHe shall return to the days of his youth.
26 \tHe shall pray to God, and He will delight in him,
\tHe shall see His face with joy,
\tFor He restores to man His righteousness.
27 \tThen he looks at men and says,
\t“I have sinned, and perverted what was right,
\tAnd it did not profit me.’
28 \tHe will redeem his soul from going down to the Pit,
\tAnd his life shall see the light.
29 \t“Behold, God works all these things,
\tTwice, in fact, three times with a man,
30 \tTo bring back his soul from the Pit,
\tThat he may be enlightened with the light of life.

This "light of life" is 'wisdom" that comes by the Holy Spirit. This knowledge is the means by which man may please God.

Job 36

5 \t“Behold, God is mighty, but despises no one;
\tHe is mighty in strength of understanding.
6 \tHe does not preserve the life of the wicked,
\tBut gives justice to the oppressed.
7 \tHe does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous;
\tBut they are on the throne with kings,
\tFor He has seated them forever,
\tAnd they are exalted.
8 \tAnd if they are bound in fetters,
\tHeld in the cords of affliction,
9 \tThen He tells them their work and their transgressions—
\tThat they have acted defiantly.
10 \tHe also opens their ear to instruction,
\tAnd commands that they turn from iniquity.
11 \tIf they obey and serve Him,
\tThey shall spend their days in prosperity,
\tAnd their years in pleasures.
12 \tBut if they do not obey,
\tThey shall perish by the sword,
\tAnd they shall die without knowledge.

Instruction by the Holy Spirit, our Councelor, is the means by which God has determined to conform men into the image of His Son. This is the Light of Life...

John 1:9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

John 8:12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

John 12:46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.

Rev. 21:22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.

God Bless
Jeff