Sloppy Evangelism...

maybe you should write that ministry and see where their heart is and ask if you could help them in their evenagelism efforts and ask if you could pray with them for God to shed light on true biblical evangelism. i think that might help them very much.

i dont know anything about campus crusade for Christ but maybe if we pray that God sends them revival He will do so or at least cause individual people to come to true Biblical evangelism. i dont think praying for them can hurt because our God can shake the whole system they are holding onto.

I haven't watched this link from the original post, but would like to comment that Campus Crusade does support the "Four Spiritual Laws" very heavily, but if you read through the booklet http://4laws.com/laws/text/#lawone it isn't that terrible. I do recall Ray Comfort mentioning how Bill Bright (the founder of Campus Crusade) shared some remorse after listening to Ray, if I recall correctly. I'm not sure if Bill changed anything if he did have any regrets though.

I do like Campus Crusade's support of the Jesus film though (they helped create that film I believe). I watched that movie many many times as a new christian, and I learned a lot from it, including our need for obedience and wholehearted commitment to God being crucial. Ray Comfort's ministry with Way of the Master complemented and helped with further study, also along with other Bible studies and simple Bible reading. just wanted to share..

if you can e-mail the person you dislike the preaching about from the link, maybe at least you can share with them some pointers and helpful suggestions to them, if you know a way to contact them, encourage them to get better :)

While I admire the zeal behind Campus Crusade (Has anyone seen Nancy Leigh Demoss' "Brokeness" sermon here on SI?), I have to admit to not fully trusting them with regards to 4 Spiritual Laws and the easy-believism associated plus the initial premise of "God Loves You and Has a Wonderful Plan For Your Life."

I have seen the heartbreak that occurs when real life catches up with those who "accept Jesus" via this message. Furthermore, the church I attend is quite multicultural in terms of having members predominantly from South-East asia and while it's great to see so many ethnicities come together in fellowship, what's no so great is when you speak to most of them and all they know of christianity is based on a modern cheap-grace gospel. To speak of sin, righteousness, judgment, lordship and personal holiness is almost like describing another belief system altogether. Yet it grieves me that we pray for God to open the doors to untouched nations, and this is what goes forth.

Here's the episode of [i]Way Of the Master[/i] that addresses 4 Spiritual Laws:
[url=http://www.livingwaters.com/listenwatch/stream_wonderfulplan_broadband.asx]God's Wonderful Plan[/url]

In most evangelism, as well as pulpit preaching we gear our message for immediate response, that is why you will hear catch words like, repent, pray this prayer, come to the altar, etc.... now while these actions in and of themselves are good they neither convey the true heart of the gospel nor place a demand upon the measure of faith God has placed within all of mankind. The message that has been lost to this generation is discipleship. Jesus had the twelve, and the 70, and as far as I can see even 120 and over the course of 3 years they dropped like flies (so to speak) until Peter made his confession, where shall we go, you have the words of eternal life. Discipleship brings one to the place of total abandonment to all the devices of this present age (world) and makes one completely dependent on Jesus and His words. I personally am neither Calvinist nor Arminist(sp?), because I do believe man has freedom of choice and our personal prayers do change things in this life, but I also know that God declares the end from the begining, for me like ole' King David, I have not exercised myself in matters to high. I'll concern myself about all that stuff in heaven when we know even as we are known. But quick conversions usually lead to fast fall out, the message of christianity is and always has been, "come follow me", "take up your cross and follow me", "if you would be my disciples you must deny yourself take up the cross and follow me", I believe Luke makes it a daily cross. A simple message I know and it doesn't always look real pretty, you can't really put your hand on when the conversion actually happens but I guess that forces us as evangelists and pastors to exercise virtues we would rather not exercise toward the lost and the lost are called ever deeper in to Jesus like the drifting of one on the ocean who is pulled ever farther out to sea, and in all this God gets the glory and we have no way to lay our finger upon the stats which church organizations are built. That's my two cents worth anyway.

CCC like any large Evangelistic organization has members from a variety denominational and doctrinal backgrounds.

There are CCC members who insist on repentance and surrender, there are others who along with their denominations say 'just pray the prayer.'

I don't think it's a systemic problem in CCC because CCC's doctrines as an organization are orthodox, if there is anything wrong with CCC it is at a membership level.

I think it is probably wrong for us to judge an organization based on our own perception of one or two of their teachings when they are so apparently bearing fruit in spite of our criticism.

There are CCC members who have gone on to be phenominal missionaries and church leaders, there are others who have crashed and burned... but lets remember that there were early church members who heard the preaching of Apostle Paul who went on to crash and burn as well. Any organization composed of sinful human beings will have the same problems.

YWAM, YFC, CCC, YMCA, etc. etc. They all started with the same purpose, reaching youth around the world for Christ, by using youth to reach their peers. Some have been more successful than others, some of them have maintained their central faith in Jesus Chist better than others, but as soon as an organization big enough than the central leadership doesn't have the ability to continuously disciple and lead all of its members there is an opportunity for disunity in vision and in the practice of evangelism.

Paul would build splendid churches, and then leave and they would crumble, some faired better than others... but it was God working through one man to hold them together... now we know that anything that God has built will continue to stand as long as God wills it to stand. Some of these organizations continue to stand in spite of bad teachings and bad leadership in some areas, it could be that these are God ordained institutions, and God is keeping them on life support until there comes a great revival and indwelling of His Spirit into these organizations again.

How much good fruit does one have to bear in order to weight out the bad fruit of giving false assurance and preaching a false gospel, innoculating the hearers to the true Gospel and strengthening them in their damnation?

That is very good and interesting question Jim and certainly something we should think about.

Patrick
www.revivalarmy.com

How much good fruit does one have to bear in order to weight out the bad fruit of giving false assurance and preaching a false gospel, innoculating the hearers to the true Gospel and strengthening them in their damnation?

My only conclusion is that God sees all this bad stuff, and he’s not finished yet with these institutions. Maybe a leaky umbrella is better than none. I keep on discovering that God defies all our logic. He amazingly births his own precious souls – even in these spiritual deserts. I’ve seen it over and over again, and then I have to shut my mouth.

I remember as a missionary being seriously disturbed about some things, and then being silenced over how God was using our work – as flawed as it was to save souls. These people would then write glowing letters of God’s goodness and their delight in their new found faith. And I’d be saying to myself,. ‘But… but……… but……’

Meantime, those who don’t want God can always find a close substitute: and our toppling institutions provide just what is wanted. Has it ever been any different?

Maybe we need to keep more focused on what GOD is doing in the dark than on what the devil is doing.
After all our calling is to help build God's household. How can we put our efforts into his children when we are always looking out the window at the stuff "out there".

Diane