As another pointed out here the connotations derived from certain words ... As you go on brother further, think this is accurate, there is something very troubling about the labeling that is used and applied with so many, many things.
It was Philologos who put me to much of a similar challenge and caution some years back now in this regard. I was and am still fond of some of these very labeled as such saints of the past, many names could be brought forth and to do so would bring out the charges and indictments ... It is so much easier to slap a label, push into a category, whitewash, blacklist, stereotype then I fear many would allow just an investigation fully into. Getting ahead of myself here.
Not a bit ironic that this has been up on the desktop this week again, stumbled upon it as an old link;
[url=http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/latent_power_of_the_soul.htm]The Latent Power of the Soul [/url] [i]by Watchman Nee[/i]
It certainly ties into a great deal of this expression and perhaps explanation even.
To back up again ... Maybe what is being drawn out and wanting of it's own expression is this want of 'fairness' in our derivatives, the giving of a 'fair shake', especially those who have been crowded into these categories that they end up being victims of even if it is the furthest thing from their minds.
For some odd reason an old bit keeps coming back to mind and as is my usual trait, many things derived from many different postings. Recalled that I had written this some time back and went searching for it ... Oh my, the long history of this fellowship, so many pains and strivings, just to review this again ... At any rate, the following extract starting from a brothers quote;
Have often dwelt on that question in the broad sense as you stated
[i]which message is right[/i]? It may well be that the answer will always be a bit elusive. Here's a bit of musing from yesterdays notes;
[i]One of the great things about this place is the confounding of so much, the demolishing of so much presumption, the dismantling of 'denominational' constructs. It is a wonderful paradox to brood on.
How far different, to take just a cross section, is T. Austin Sparks from Keith Daniel, from Ron Bailey, from Art Katz, from David Wilkerson, from A.W. Tozer, from Zack Poonen, from Leonard Ravenhill? From Finney, from Wesley, from P.T Forsayth, from Watchman Née, from Oswald Chambers, from C.H. Spurgeon, from Chip Brodgan, from Robert Murray McCheyne, from Brother Lawrence, from Brother Andrew, from Paris Reidhead, from Ravi Zacharias, from Ray Comfort, from Ray Stedman, from R.A. Torrey, from Martin Lloyd Jones, from George Whitefield, from Stephen Kaung? Andrew Murray... Mueller[/i]
The 'easy' and perhaps even glib answer is, well, they all love the Lord or they are still brothers and all that is true. But I believe there is something intangible and further buried deep down than that which can be expressed easily. It is in part and maybe large part, character and just as well, personality. The above out-take there came about from a snippet out of T. Austin Sparks comments in another posting;
[b]Personality.[/b]
I repeat, then, that it was the glory of His personality as the Son of Man; for, almost in association with that, He spoke of His coming again as being 'the coming of the Son of Man in the glory of the Father'. This, so far as His perfecting was concerned, was not something that took place on the Mount. The Mount was the mark of the CONSUMMATION of His perfecting. I do not mean in the matter of sin - sinfulness or sinlessness - but the perfecting of His character, the perfecting of that inner man which we call personality. Personality is a strange thing, an elusive thing, something that you cannot get hold of, but you cannot mistake; it is THE person within - the man inside. Now, He, in that inner life of His, had worked out this whole matter of God's pleasure, God's satisfaction, through His life. There was the Divine approval at His baptism in similar words, indicating, probably, that His thirty years were approved; certainly indicating that the step that He was now taking, right out into public, with the Cross accepted (for His baptism certainly implied that) was approved. That brought the word from Heaven: 'My Beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased'.
~T. Austin Sparks
Men Whose Eyes Have Seen the King
Had really saved these up for a different reason (or season) but maybe it is worth the expression after all, here's the rest;
[i]Mix them up in any order and add in how many others, and pardon the unintentional expression, what a band of mis-fits! It is a wonderful blind ignorance that I could hardly tell which particular labeling by 'denomination' a great deal of these 'worked out of', the point being .... who cares! But it is much broader and all encompassing if we might allow ourselves to take note beyond the mere lip service of this central truth and I will dare to utter it; "Unified"
Just from this random sampling. The timelessness alone something to grasp. Across cultures and generations, circumstances. Add in the persecuted and the missionaries; Livingstone and Wurmmbrandt, K.P Yohanan, Hudson Taylor, Rolland Allen, the names listed in Fox's Book of Martyrs ... Running these partially from memory, partially from the ever growing collection.
The collective thought and the marked differences of particulars, secondary they be. Mix in the saints. Paul and Moses, Peter and Elijah, John and Joseph, Mark and Issiah, Luke and Jeremiah. Stephen and Phoebe, Mary and Mary's, Titus and Lucius, Jason and Sosipater, Tertius, Gaius, Epaenetus, strange names, 'obscure' names. Dare to throw your own hat into the mix. The 'great company of witness's'. Your heritage, your history, your family.
What's the point? Not all of these names are necessarily 'here'. Some have been salvaged and still speak audibly. Some written, some both. Some by extension and recommendation. Some the scriptures themselves. At one point in our lives, they were all foreign to us.
"And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother."
Mar 3:32-35
This is what makes this more than just some 'place'. Another in the mix of many? It is distinct in intangibles, in a variety of expression. It is a schooling and a disciple making venture, a seminary of the Spirit ... I believe it to be a 'revival' in and of itself, more than even the pointing to and longing for something of the sort and substance of those in the past. Is it because it tends to dwell on all these 'old', 'dead' 'past' saints? In a word. Yes! Precisely!
But it is not a certain romanticism or nostalgia. It is not a thousand things. It is certainly not the trend of the day, the aptly put "chronological snobbery" that would put this in it's own category and lock it up as 'past'.
Coming here, what, 3 years ago now? Hardly a few of these names I knew, including those in the scriptures. By that I do mean 'knew' or 'know' in the deepest aspect of that meaning. Not so much 'personally', though in certain ways the gleaning of thought brings a certain familiarity. Members of this forum, having come to know by all the interaction and fellowship. Circumstances of our lives shared, the many prayers...[/i]
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A bit of a divergence there and the greater context;
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=9873&forum=35&start=100&viewmode=flat&order=0]Revival Idolatry[/url]
To come back to the question at hand and further this great point MC is making ... Godly character ... Our sister recently got my attention in [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=19717&forum=36&start=10&viewmode=flat&order=0]Is your Worship merely noise?[/url] where she had made mention of a certain Paul Washer message, I have been itching to disclose it here somehow, someway, some right placement that it might be granted a fair hearing.
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=14249](The Glory of God) in Moral Purity[/url]
Don't let the title throw you, it is of such a profound expression of an honest heart I still struggle to give any comment on it. If anything I think it encapsulates much if not maybe precisely the effort here in all that is intended through SermonIndex, be it 'revival' or what have you.
Think you will be tremendously blessed by that message.
Apologize for the randomness of all this, expression is something that can find strange ways of leaking out.
[i]P.S. Wanted to note the message above is part of a series of four in total, looking forward to the remainder, they are of a similar heading towards the bottom of the page here; [/i][url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=442]Paul Washer[/url]
[i]P.P.S. Corrected the many mispellings[/i] Hopefully
