The New Day of Rest | SermonIndex

M

makrothumia Sep 28, 2007

A new day has been "limited" (KJV) through the words of David, as understood by the writer of Hebrews in chapter 4, verse 7 - "Again he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, Today...", The Greek word for "limiteth" comes from the root "oridzo" meaning to mark out, appoint, ordain, specify. God has specified a day for entering His rest. No, it's not Sunday, although that is a wonderful day, being the first of the week and special to many celebrating the resurrection. The new day that God has "limited" is Today! Today is that the day when you hear His voice and believe. Hearing His voice and believing enables us to enter the rest that the first generation who received the Law and the promises failed to enter because they did not mix what they had heard with faith. Those who have believed are the ones who enter this rest. Whether we are Jews or Gentiles, we become one new man through faith in Christ, according to the mystery revealed to the apostles and prophets. Righteousness is accounted unto "believing ones" who share in the faith of believing Abraham. The only true rest for anyone is found through believing in Christ Jesus. We must stand fast in this liberty and not allow anyone, however sincere, to seek to place a yoke of bondage, THE LAW, upon our necks. Those who are of the Law are slaves unto bondage. We should listen to Sarah, and get rid of the bond woman, THE LAW. Those who would seek to place the yoke of the Law upon the neck of any believer should be resisted lest the truth of the gospel be hindered. Paul made it clear - "For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them. Notice it dot not say "on the tablets of stone", rather everything written in the "book of the law." Those who would have believers observe a certain day need to deal honestly with the weight of this passage. Many who would make distinctions between permanent aspects of the law and the temporary ordinances which were done away with, live by a theology of contradiction. The Law set more days apart than the Sabbath. There were three annual festivals that every Jewish male was required to attend IN Jerusalem itself and no where else. Those who would argue that believers should keep a literal Sabbath, are quick to spiritualize the other feast days appointed by God. I would urge saints to stand fast in the only true and permanent way of entering the Sabbath rest of God - "Today if you hear His voice - harden not your hearts." The true rest of God is not entered into by observing a certain day, unless that day is Today! The day we hear and beieve.

sermonindex Oct 1, 2007

makrothumia,

Thank you for making an eloquent exposition of this topic. It's a while since I engaged on any thread around keeing 'the Sabbath'...

The Law set more days apart than the Sabbath.

I believe a sabbath was a rest day. It wasn't necessarily a Saturday (by our reckoning), but could be any day of the week. I'm not knowledgeable on the details of the reasons for the various sabbaths, but while I knew that we enter into God's rest through faith in Christ, I've never heard it defined as ~~[i]~~today[/i] and so clearly explained before. Amen and thank you.

sermonindex Oct 1, 2007

Dear Brother makrothumia,

Please allow me to disagree with you.

I would just like to ask you some questions if I may.

Quote:
""""""We must stand fast in this liberty and not allow anyone, however sincere, to seek to place a yoke of bondage, THE LAW, upon our necks. Those who are of the Law are slaves unto bondage."""""

This Law that you refer to. is this the same law, commandments, statutes and judgments of Psalm 119?

Was David into bondage?

Were all the prophets that warned Israel of the judgments coming upon them because they did not hallow the Sabbath into bondage as well?

Brother, The Law that Contain the commandment for us to keep the Sabbath is a law of Love not a law of bondage.

Please read Psalms 119 and tell me, Are you and king David in Disagreement? should I take your definition of God's law or King David?

Just few thoughts, Now over to you.

Jayme

M

makrothumia Oct 3, 2007

Dear Brother,

Thank you for such an excellent question. First of all, those men who obtained witness as having pleased God did so by faith - even while under the first covenant, so I do not think they were under bondage. However no one was, or ever will be declared righteous by works of the Law, so not even those righteous men who pleased God by their faith were able to become righteous by the Law. Now all those who would look to the Law for righteousness to be fulfilled in them would come under bondage. The Law is powerless to produce righteousness in anyone, for the Law made nothing perfect, and in that sense it is both weak and useless. Anyone who would think that righteousness would come by the observance of a day, a week, a feast, or by circumcision would come under the bondage. Anyone who would direct others to keep even one point of the Law to be made righteous, comes under obligation to do the whole Law. Only Christ who is the very life and righteousness of God can actually produce righteousness in anyone, and thus only those looking to Him to do so will actually become righteous in heart, and in actions. Remember that it was Peter who said, "Why do you test God by trying to place upon the neck of the disciples a yoke (ie; bondage) that neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Yes, for a believer to look to the Law, a day, a feast, or circumcision for righteousness to be produced in him would be to place himself under bondage, the bondage of the Law, and Christ would become of none effect to him.
As for those to whom the Law was given, Israel alone and not Gentiles, we know that it was only introduced until the seed to whom the promise referred had come. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the Law. The Law was only put into effect to lead us unto Christ, now that we live in Christ, all the righteous requirements of the Law are fully met in us as we walk by the Spirit. Those who were under the Law and living by faith, never received the things promised, they were hoping for better things, things which we now possess in Christ.
I want to be very clear here. If anyone turns others back to weak and beggarly elements such as observing sabbaths, feasts, and other ordinances of the Law, we should fear for them like Paul. That middle wall of separation - the Law of commandments in ordinances - was destroyed in Christ body - thus making peace. Now that there is no longer a wall of separation - the purpose of God hidden from former generations is revealed through Christ's holy apostles and prophets. Christ has made one new man out of two. Therefore in Christ Jesus, there is no more Jew nor Greek...but we are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Anyone who attempts to get disciples to be circumcised or obey the Law of Moses is putting them under bondage, and will be judged for doing so.

makrothumia

sermonindex Oct 3, 2007

dear brother

you did not answer my questions.

This Law that you refer to. is this the same law, commandments, statutes and judgments of Psalm 119?

Was David into bondage?

Were all the prophets that warned Israel of the judgments coming upon them because they did not hallow the Sabbath into bondage as well?

Brother, The Law that Contain the commandment for us to keep the Sabbath is a law of Love not a law of bondage.

Please read Psalms 119 and tell me, Are you and king David in Disagreement? should I take your definition of God's law or King David?
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M

makrothumia Oct 4, 2007

Dear Jayme,

I do not have to work at breathing, that is how easy it is for me to keep the Law, The Ten Commandments, that you speak of. The Spirit of God in me inspires me to do these things every day. I have been given a new heart and a new spirit that inspires me to live far beyond the weak boundaries of the Ten Commandments. They only require that I not kill, but the Spirit of God in me inspires me to love, to bless, to do good, and to pray for my enemy. The Ten Commandments only require that I not committ physical adultery, whereas the Spirit of Christ in me leads me to not even look upon a woman to lust after her. The Ten Commandments only require that I not covet my neighbors, wife, house, land or things, but the Spirit of Christ compels me to bear my neighbors burdens and so fulfill the Law of Christ. I have not been tempted lately to carve any images, but that is not sufficient for the Spirit of God within me pricks my heart at the least hint of pride in myself or my own righteousness. The Ten commandments only require that I honor the Sabbath - that one day of the week, every 7th day. Isaiah tells us how to honor it by not going our own way, not doing what we please, not speaking idle words, and calling it honorable. Wow that leaves me six other days to do these things. For according to the Ten Commandments - then all the other days I can speak idle words, do what I please, and go my own way. How ridiculous. The Spirit of Christ in me causes me to live every day so as not to allow any idle word come forth out of my mouth at anytime for any reason, and to deny myself daily and take up my cross every day, not just every 7th. Just what do you think you are trying to accomplish by this dialogue. The Law of Christ is far higher, far purer, far deeper than the Ten Commandments - therefore by living according to the Law of Christ the Ten Commandments are far surpassed. The Pharisees were careful to keep the Ten Commandments - and yet our Lord told the crowds "Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and pharisees you shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven. Doing the will of God involves far more than the Ten Commandments ever required.
The Law was not made for good men, and because of the grace of Christ that has come to me I am a new creature, old things have passed away and all things have become new. The Law could never have done this. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ has accomplished something far more thorough than observing one day per week could or ever will.
Another consideration. You are not dealing honestly with scripture when you try to insert "the ceremonial aspects of the Law" into the all the New Testament references where the Law is used. For example, II Corinthians 3 - try making Paul's choice of words - "But the ministry of death written and engraven in stones" to be the ceremonial aspects of the Law. There were no ceremonial laws engraved on the tablets. So, yes, even the Sahbath was a ministry of death according to Paul. Not my words, but Paul's. The Ten Commandments were a ministry of death, they were the ones engraved on stone and they are also referred to as the ministry of condemnation and fading glory. You can not insert your idea of the ceremonial law into all the passages that speak of the Law being done away with, or the first covenant being done away with by the New Covenant. Hagar is an allegory Paul used for Sinai and Paul said she represents the Covenant of Sinai. The Covenant of Sinai bears children to slavery. Where do get your authority to single out the Ten Commandments from the other decrees of God at Sinai? Can you really honestly read Romans 7, Galatians 3, Hebrews 7-10, and everywhere the term Law is used, make it work by limiting it to the ceremonial aspects while preserving the Ten Commandments. Would you say that it was only the ceremonial aspect of the Law that killed, and not the Ten Commandments because they were full of life. Are you saying it was only the ceremonies that brought condemnation? Are we to believe that the Ten Commandments were good, life giving, but feast like atonement, Tabernacles, Pentecost all brought death and condemnation. Are we to believe that it was decrees about diet, cleanliness, justice, sacrifice, and offering that brought condemnation, whereas those eternal Ten Commandments never were the death or condemnation of anyone?
Your attempts to divide the ceremonial requirements from the Ten Commandments will not hold up to careful scrutiny. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ not only fulfills the Ten Commandments, but so far surpasses them in glory that the former is not even worth comparing.

makrothumia

M

makrothumia Oct 4, 2007

Just in case I did not specifically answer your question regarding David and myself, allow me to say I have seen something far greater than David ever saw. I have seen the temple of living stones being built, I have seen the glory of God in the face of Christ. I have received the very Spirit of God come to indwell me, and make me a man of peace rather than a man of blood like David was. I have seen God's enemies becoming God friend's through the redemption in Jesus Christ. David slew God's enemies - I see God saving them in Christ Jesus. I hope you get my point. David lost four sons to death, in judgment for his adulterous, murderous heart. My children are all serving the Lord under the influence and power of the Spirit of God that David's children did not have. I have received something greater than David. I have been given fullness in Christ. The Spirit Christ has sent to dwell in me is making known to me everything that Jesus has, and Jesus has all that the Father has. John the Baptist was greater than David, and yet the least in the kingdom is greater than John. Wouldn't that put me in a place that David would be envious of? I think so.

Makrothumia

sermonindex Oct 4, 2007

Dear brother,

Quote: ""Wow that leaves me six other days to do these things. For according to the Ten Commandments - then all the other days I can speak idle words, do what I please, and go my own way. How ridiculous.""
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Dear Brother, Come on. I will not even comment on this. But I will say this.

because you do not keep the seventh day as a holy day, Is it right of me to think that you think idle words and do what You please all week long? I think not. Why do are you inplying this about those who keep the sabbath Holy?

This is what the commandments says,

Exodus 20:8-11 " Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Please do not twist the Scriptures and make us look like we are a one day christian. We have to walk with Christ everyday of the week but the seventh we shall not do any work. That is what the commandment says.

sermonindex Oct 4, 2007

Quote:"""and to deny myself daily and take up my cross every day, not just every 7th. Just what do you think you are trying to accomplish by this dialogue."""

I agree with you brother, but I only carry my cross for six days, on the seventh I carry no cross, that is why it is called the sabbath rest.
It is a blessing, I do no work, I do no worry, I just Rest.

You asked me what I am trying to accomplish with this dialogue?

I am making public what I believe, the same way that you are making public what you believe. Or do you think you are the only one with a voice?
I also want to make public the fact that the Sabbath is a blessing not a burden, and as you mentioned yourself from Isaiah, I want part on the blessings that will come upon those who keeping theselves from defiling God's Holy day.

sermonindex Oct 4, 2007

Quote:"""The Pharisees were careful to keep the Ten Commandments - and yet our Lord told the crowds "Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and pharisees you shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven."""

Where in your bible did you find Jesus saying that the Scribes and pharisees kept the Ten commandment?

Jesus said that they they kept man made laws. and He even said that they broke the law of moses.

This is what Jesus said: Mark 7:6-13 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 7 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' 8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men -- the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." 9 He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 "For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' 11 "But you say, 'If a man says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban" -- ' (that is, a gift to God), 12 "then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 "making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do."

Please show me where Jesus said that they kept the Ten commandments and that He rebuked them for that?

Matthew 5:17-20 " Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

sermonindex Oct 5, 2007

You Quote:""" "But the ministry of death written and engraven in stones"""

I never said brother that Corinthian was ceremonial law, again you are putting words in my mouth which I did not say.

Are the Ten commandments the ministry of Death. Let's see

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1st Commandment

No other gods.

Deuteronomy 13:1-3 "If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 "and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods' -- which you have not known -- 'and let us serve them,' 3 "you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Deuteronomy 13:8-9 "you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; 9 "but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.

Exodus 22:20 He who sacrifices to any god, except to the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

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2nd Commandment
No Imagery

Deuteronomy 7:4-5 "For they will turn your sons away from following Me, to serve other gods; so the anger of the LORD will be aroused against you and destroy you suddenly.
5 "But thus you shall deal with them: you shall destroy their altars, and break down their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images, and burn their carved images with fire.

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3rd Commandment

No taking His name in vain

Leviticus 24:16 'And whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall certainly stone him, the stranger as well as him who is born in the land. When he blasphemes the name of the Lord, he shall be put to death.

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4th Commandment
No labour on the sabbath

Exodus 31:14 'You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.

Exodus 31:16 'Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.

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5TH Commandment

Honour your mother and father.

Exodus 21:15 And he who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 21:17 " And he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.
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6th Commandment
do not murder

Leviticus 24:17 ' Whoever kills any man shall surely be put to death.
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7th Commandment

do not commit adultery

Leviticus 20:10 'The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

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8th Commandment
do not steal
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9th Commandment
do not bear false witness
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10th Commandment
Do not covet
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As you can see brother The Ten commandments written in stones is most definetely a ministration of death, if you disobey them. But a blessing if you obey them.

Remember what moses said.

Deuteronomy 11:26-28 " Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse: 27 "the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you today; 28 "and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to go after other gods which you have not known.

See brother, through the Law there is the knoledge os sin, and sin leads us to death.

So As moses said, if you obey the commandments, you won't sin and you will be blessed, but if you don't then the results of sin is death.
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You can think whatever you want about the Ten commandments, but one fact remain,

THEY WERE GIVEN TO MOSES BY GOD HIMSELF, THE HOLY OF HOLIES, WRITTEN WITH THE FINGER OF GOD THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR.

And Paul said,

Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

And God Said:

Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

I do not need the Stones to remind me of the laws of God for they are in my heart and in my mind.

And again, if I break them, it still brings death.

for Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Jesus can cleanse your sins, but after he forgave the sins of Mary Magdalene,

John 8:11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more."

sermonindex Oct 5, 2007

Quote: """ Are you saying it was only the ceremonies that brought condemnation?"""

I have never said such a thing.

Through the Law brother there is the knowledge of sin, without the law there is not sin, the Ten commandments reveals your sin. The ceremonial Law was used to cleanse the sins committed by the people. Most of the laws in the ten commandments resulted in Death, God took the breaking of the sabbath as serious as he took idolatry.

Paul says, Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

sermonindex Oct 5, 2007

Quote:
The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ not only fulfills the Ten Commandments, but so far surpasses them in glory that the former is not even worth comparing.

Brother james said.

James 4:12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.

God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit do not have different laws. They are all in one accord. You are saying that Jesus Laws surpasses God's law.
It is my love for Jesus, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit that Compells me to keep God's Holy law, or if you want, Jesus Holy Law or The Holy Spirit Law, to me they are all the same.

Again. James 4:12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.

sermonindex Oct 5, 2007

Dear brother,

Quote: """Just in case I did not specifically answer your question regarding David and myself"""

Brother makrothumia, I think you misunderstood my question to you.

In your first message you were quite unfair, in my opinion describing God's law (Ten Commandments). and my question to you was, is the law you are talking about the same as the law and judgments David was describing in Psalms 119?

I was not asking for you to make a comparison about you and david.
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I am so happy brother to hear that your family is blessed by the lord, and that you are all His servants.

I just wouldn't go as far as to say that David, The King David would envy your position. He was the annointed one to be the king of the people God had chosen His own. The People that God separated to Himself, so that He could bring salvation to the word. But not only that, but Jesus would come from David's bloodline. Now that is a position to be desired. The saviour of the world came from his bloodline.

David did have some mishaps in his life, some of his children did not end up the way one would say they should. but one of his son had all this.

1 Kings 3:5-12 At Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night; and God said, "Ask! What shall I give you?" 6 And Solomon said: "You have shown great mercy to Your servant David my father, because he walked before You in truth, in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with You; You have continued this great kindness for him, and You have given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day. 7 "Now, O LORD my God, You have made Your servant king instead of my father David, but I am a little child; I do not know how to go out or come in. 8 "And Your servant is in the midst of Your people whom You have chosen, a great people, too numerous to be numbered or counted. 9 "Therefore give to Your servant an understanding heart to judge Your people, that I may discern between good and evil. For who is able to judge this great people of Yours?" 10 The speech pleased the LORD, that Solomon had asked this thing. 11 Then God said to him: "Because you have asked this thing, and have not asked long life for yourself, nor have asked riches for yourself, nor have asked the life of your enemies, but have asked for yourself understanding to discern justice, 12 "behold, I have done according to your words; see, I have given you a wise and understanding heart, so that there has not been anyone like you before you, nor shall any like you arise.

This is How Jesus described Himself in Revelation.

Revelation 5:5 But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."

Revelation 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star."

Brother this is something to be envious about.
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The intention of my question was not to get a comparison about you and David Brother. although I has been nice to know that you have a blessed family. But one thing I can learn from David, Despite of all his mistakes and sins, God still loved Him, and thought so highly of Him. It gives me the confidence that He loves me as well, with all my flaws, which are many. But With the Help of the Holy Spirit I am shaping up myself to meet my saviour on that great day for some and dreadful day for others.

May God continue to bless you and your family abundantly Brother.

In Love, Jayme

M

makrothumia Oct 5, 2007

Dear Jayme,

Thank you for your replies. My point in mentioning what I have about David, is that we have a greater salvation than he knew. I know that "The Law is holy, righteous and good", but the first Covenant, in which God found fault with the people, does not compare with the New and yes in God's own words "different" Covenant. I believe you sincerely see many of the aspects of that first Covenant fulfilled spiritually in the New. If I undertand you, you would probably see most of the ceremonial laws, and other feast days, and circumcision as having their fulfillment in spiritual ways in the New Covenant. I think it likely, that the only area we would not see the same would be that I include the Sabbath in that spiritual fulfillment also. My rest does not come from a day, I come to Christ to receive rest. I do not see this as a contradiction to the fourth commandment. It is the New Testament authors that portray the principles of the first Covenant as "weak and beggarly" principles that enslave people. These thoughts have not originated with me. I follow the Laws of Christ, and like Paul, I am not under the Law of Moses. I never was under the Law of Moses, for I am a gentile and the Law, including the Ten Commandments was a covenant, intermediate, with Israel. I believe it was wonderful for them and for the purpose it serves in revealing sin. Our area of disagreement seems confined to how we see the Ten Commandments fulfilled in the New Covenant. I believe I walk in that fulfillment, and have assumed that someone as sincere as yourself toward the Law of God would walk this way also.

I guess I need to ask if you regard Romans 14:5 - that passage about regarding a day above a day - to be referring to a Sabbath. I have always been taught, and undestood this to be a reference to the Sabbath. Perhaps you could explain how you view and have been taught on this passage.

Thanks,
Makrothumia

sermonindex Oct 9, 2007

Dear brother,

quote: Our area of disagreement seems confined to how we see the Ten Commandments fulfilled in the New Covenant. I believe I walk in that fulfillment, and have assumed that someone as sincere as yourself toward the Law of God would walk this way also.
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Dear brother, I keep people saying about the old and new covenants. The Old given to Israel, could you please show me where was this new covenant given to us Gentiles?

Is this new covenant the same paul is talking about here?

Jeremiah talks about a new covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-33 Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah -- 32 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
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In matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24 and luke 22:20

Matthew 26:28 "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mark 14:24 "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luke 22:20 "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1 Corinthians 11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
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Paul here talks about a new covenant.

Hebrews 8:8-10 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah -- 9 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

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NOte that he repeats exactly what Jeremiah said, and he goes on saying that this new covenant is for Israel and with the house of Judah.

my question to you is, for those who keep saying that the old covenant was just for israel and only israel should fulfil it.

Is this new covenant only for israel and the house of Judah as well?

Please can you give me the texts that supports this new covenant for the gentiles?

I keep hearing people saying that we are under the new covenant and I believe we are. but wasn't this new covenant given to israel and the house of judah.

Thank you for your time and patience.

God bless you.

sermonindex Oct 9, 2007

dear brother I have another question for you.

NKJ 1 Corinthians 9:20-21 And to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law;

NIV To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.

Everybody keeps saying that they are under the law of Christ.

but what does paul mean when he says, though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ.

what is this God's law paul is refering to?

Now to me, He is saying that He is under God's law(ten commandments) and Christ's law(love, serving and humility)

The Law of Christ is mentioned only once in the Bible, in the Epistle to the Galatians: "Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2, New King James Version). The Law of Christ: "Bear one another's burdens."

could you please explain this to me. since some say that paul did not keep the Ten Commandments, I beg to differ.

M

makrothumia Oct 10, 2007

Hi Jayme,

Well I will attempt to do so, but if I do not address your question fully, please feel free to clarify it for me again. You asked

"what does paul mean when he says, though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ.
what is this God's law paul is refering to?"

This law is the "New Commandment" that Jesus referred to in John 13:34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another." What did Jesus mean by "a new commandment." The Greek term translated "new" is an adjective meaning new qualitatively in contrast to what is old. For example "new wine" as opposed to "old". The term is ofter used to indicate that which is "better" than the thing that existed before. So, our Lord chose to make a contrast between the former commandment and His own, which He described as "new" or "better" in quality. This does not mean it is drastically different in substance, but we know that the "New Covenant" is drastically "better" in its results. The Law although "Holy, Righteous, and Good" made nothing perfect, therefore, a "New Covenant" was introduced, a "better" Covenant in that it could make men righteous. This is what Paul meant in Galatians 3:21: "Is the Law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. Paul is saying that the law was not able to produce righteousness. With the same thought in mind Paul wrote "What the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did...". The Law was not able to make men righteous in actions, because of the "law of sin at work in the members making me a prisoner of the law of sin and death." The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ is able to accomplish what the Law of Moses could not. Those in Christ have received the indwelling Spirit of God, His very life, becoming partakers of the Divine Nature, thus receiving power to "fulfill all the righteous requirements of the Law." Those who live by the Spirit, living by faith, do not make void the Law - rather we "establish the Law." As the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit, this new "internal" power at work in us produces the new creature's desires to walk in all the righteousness of the Law. "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith which worketh by love." Remember "the Law is not of faith." God's righteous ones do not live "by the Law" but like Abraham, they live by faith. Their faith does not make void the Law, rather their faith establishes the Law. Circumcision was a sign of the covenant with Abraham, you know now that the physical act of circumcision is meaningless in regards to producing righteousness. But the faith which worketh by love, produces such a change of heart, that those who live by it do no harm to their neighbor, thus fulfilling all of the last 5 of the Ten Commandments simply by following the leading of the Spirit of Christ in them to love their neighbor as He has loved them. The first five commandments are fulfilled much in the same way. No one speaking by the Spirit says Jesus be accursed, therefore no one living by the Spirit takes God's name in vain. The Spirit of God inspires those who live by faith to give Jesus Christ first place so they naturally seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness. This takes care of the first commandment, no other God before the Father or the Son - not even "covetousness which is idolatry." Those who genuinely live by the Spirit do not make gods or a god in their own mind, not even another Jesus, or another spirit or another gospel. Their love and allegiance is to God the Father through Jesus the Son.
The vast majority of the sincere saints who would visit this sight fulfill all of the first three commandments and the last six simply by walking according to the spirit, living in love, abiding in God. Your question as you have stated in earlier posts centers upon in what way does the New Covenant fulfill the fourth commandment. You see circumcision to be a spiritual reality in Christ, therefore you must be in complete agreement with the vast majority of us who place no requirement on others to undergo physical circumcision. Our discussion comes to the crossroad of what it means to "keep the Sabbath holy." You have made your position clear on this, but I am not sure you have accepted attempts, at least by myself to explain that I see this fulfillment in a different way than you do.
Before I attempt to re-explain my own views of how I enter the sabbath rest by faith, I would like you to explain your views on Romans 14:5 unless you have already done so and I have missed it. If you did that already, I apologize and would ask you to copy it again or direct me to it some how. I would appreciate knowing your views on this before I continue. Thank you.

makrothumia

M

makrothumia Oct 10, 2007

Sorry Jayme for missing one of your last questions. The Gentiles are made partakers not of a covenant with Israel, but with Abraham. The Covenant with Abraham stated "in you all the nations shall be blessed." The covenant with Israel, introduced 430 years after the covenant with Abraham, does not set aside the previously established covenant. The Law was merely an intermediate covenant until the "seed of Abraham" appeared. The Gentiles are blessed through faith in the seed of Abraham, just like the Jew. Jews are branches, not the root. The Seed of Abraham, is the root of David. Jews are branches some of whom were broken off because of unbelief, and they can only be grafted in again by faith. Thus whether Gentile or Jew, we can only partake by faith. God's mystery was revealed to the apostles and prophets as it was never before in previous generations. His purpose was to create in Himself one new man out of the two (Jew and Gentile) and to reconcile them both through Christ body. In Christ, there is neither Jew nor Gentile - just Sons of God by faith.

makrothumia

sermonindex Oct 10, 2007

Dear brother.

I apologize for taking this long to reply to your message.

Romans 14:5-6 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
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Dear brother, I want to start this by pointing out that on the first verse of Romans 14. Paul mentions the fact that people were argueing about doubtful things.

Was the Sabbath a doubtfull thing to Paul? In my view, Absolutely not.

Let's put this into the context of Jew and Gentile. Paul was a Jew, and by being a Jew, He would have to keep the sabbath.

Remember that the Sabbath was a covenant on its own.

Exodus 31:15-17 'Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 'Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 'It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.' "

My question to you is, Was Paul a child of Israel?

If you answer is yes, then He would have to comply with the sabbath keeping.

Also note that Paul was persecuted many many times by the pharises and scribes, but He was never acused of sabbath breaking. Why?

In many verses we can see that Paul had the habit to go to the synagogue on the sabbath.

Acts 13:14-16 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, "Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on." 16 Then Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, "Men of Israel, and you who fear
God, listen:

Here we know that Paul went to the synagogue on the sabbath.

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Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

Here tells me that not only Jew were on the synagogues on the sabbath, but also the Gentiles. If it wasn't required for the gentiles to keep the sabbath holy, what were they doing there?

What is your explanation for the fact that the gentiles were attending church on the sabbath?
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Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

But look what happened in the following sabbath.

The whole city came to hear Paul's preaching.
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Now we come to a place where a lot of people use to do away with the sabbath law.

The Jerusalem Council. They say that if we were to keep the sabbath, the apostles would have mentioned it here.

But I want you to know that, the same way that Paul was arguing doubtful things on romans 14. The council also got together to decide on things that were doubtful.
The Sabbath was an established thing, why discuss it?

It is like making a new automobile, the engineers might get together to decide the size( width and hight) of a tyre that would best fit that car. You will not see them argueing about wheather they should used rubber, metal, wood or whatever other material you could think of to make a tyre. It is established that the material to be used is rubber. so no point in discussing it.

The time of the Jerusalem council, was a time where new converts were being mislead to being circumcised. They would tell them that they could not be saved unless they were circumcised.

Acts 15:19-24 "Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 "but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 "For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath." 22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren. 23 They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law" -- to whom we gave no such commandment --

The sabbath was not dicussed there because it was not a point of doubt.
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Now this is a verse the clarifies it all for me. For many say that Paul went to the synagogues on the sabbath to persuade the Jews. Otherwise he wouldn't be there.

but have a look at this verse.

Acts 16:11-14 Therefore, sailing from Troas, we ran a straight course to Samothrace, and the next day came to Neapolis, 12 and from there to Philippi, which is the foremost city of that part of Macedonia, a colony. And we were staying in that city for some days. 13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there. 14 Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us.

Here it tells me that Paul did not go to the synagogue on that particular sabbath. He went outside the city to a riverside, where Prayer was customarily made, On the SAbbath.

No jew here. Just the Gentile brothers.
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I have wrote this brother to establish the fact that Paul went to the synagogues on the sabbath, to preach, to persuade people(Jew, Gentiles and Greek-acts 18:4) to Christ, but also He would go outside the city to be with likeminded people to worship on the Sabbath as well.

Now back to romans 14. As I said before. Paul is
discussing with them about something that was creating problems among the brethrem.

I can see on verse 2, what that something was.

Romans 14:2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.

Verse 3-4 were also written about the same argument. People were judging people based on what they were eating or not eating.

Take note that there is no mention of the Sabbath in this passage. It is a mistake to read into this passage that Paul was referring to Sabbath observance. The reference here is simply to days. The Sabbath is definetely not the issue at hand.

The church of Rome had a composite of Jew and Gentiles as its members. On verse 2/3/6. Paul clearly identifies the issue of vegetarianism, not Sabaath observance. Paul was addressing a question of eating or not eating meat on particular days.

The whole chapter is about eating or not eating certain things. To even mention the Sabbath issue here would be absolutely out of context.

Now, if you put the fact of eating meat or not eating meat and apply to verses 4 and 5. it would make perfect sense.

Verse 4 - One person prefers not to eat meat in one day, another prefers not to eat it any day. so let them be convinced it in their own mind.

Verse 5 - He who doesn't eat meat in that day, He does it for the Lord, and he who doesn't really think important to stop eating meat, also does it for the Lord.

Brother to say that Paul is talking about the sabbath would be the same as describing a way to lose weight and right in the middle of it say something like this.

__How to lose weight__

1-Don't eat processed foods.
2-don't have too much sugar.
3-don't eat Too much.
4-Don't forget to do your english lessons.
5-do plenty of exercises.

You would say, what number 4 has to do with what we are talking about? Absolutely nothing.

It would be totally out of place.

Brother you cannot take an issue so important like the Sabbath and do away with it in two verses. The whole of the OT, God is pleading with israel to keep His holy day.

You might say that you keep it in the spirit, But when God gave the commandments he gave precise instructions as how we should keep it holy.

Six days we shall labour but the sabbath is holy to the Lord. The SAbbath Day Brother is a Holy day to men from God.

Nehemiah 9:14 You made known to them Your holy Sabbath, And commanded them precepts, statutes and laws, By the hand of Moses Your servant.

The SAbbath is God's Day, it is His sign to us. and That is why Jesus said the He is Lord even of the Sabbath.

I have a question for you.

When Jesus was talking to the pharisees.

Matthew 12:11-12 Then He said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? 12 "Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."

Now would it be the perfect oportunity for Jesus to just say, The SAbbath is not longer binding. for I am your sabbath, I have fulfilled the law for you. But he did not say that.

Instead He says, it is lawful to do Good on the sabbath. if Jesus had said it was Lawful to do good on the sabbath, then I am right to assume that there were unlawful things as well, and for us to know what that is, we have to go back to God's law(Ten Commandments) to find out what is unlawful on the Sabbath.

I hope I was able to explaing my views about romans 14. Any comments of it would be appreciated.

Jayme