original sin and regeneration

Greetings in the Name of my Lord Jesus Christ,

recently it was brought to my attention that many believers do not believe in a doctrine known as "original sin", and neither in a regeneration that is "sovereign".

To define what i understand as the doctrine or teaching known as original sin and sovereign regeneration as understood in my own mind

Original Sin: every human being is born imperfect as compared to God and inclined to pride and selfishness which inevitably leads to transgression against God, personal conscience, and fellow man.

Sovereign Regeneration: every human who is born out of God becomes a child of God this is solely possible because of the power of God being Holy Spirit who regenerates a willing and desperate man in effect God brings about and causes his desire, enlightenment and salvation from sin,death and hell.

If any brother have any brief profound truth that is additional or contrary to these two funda mental s please reply.

Thankful for God's loving kindness

Richard

Isaiah 7:14-16 indicates that there is a time when the child, who is prophesied about, will not yet discern/recognize/know between choosing good and refusing evil.

Deuteronomy 1:39 also indicates that there is period of time early on in life when one does not know good and evil.

It is my assumption that transgression of the law or a commandment nessesitates the understanding of good and evil, right and wrong.

1John 3:4 Whosover committeth sin transgresseth the law for sin is the transgression of the law.

Conscience means with knowledge. If we are born without the knowledge of good and evil, that tree which is in the midst of the garden, we are not born with what you would define as "original sin". However i cannot dissagree that we are attracted to sin as a moth to a flame. Perhaps being created in the image of God makes it harder for us to submit to God, wanting to be Gods of our own?

Also thankful for His loving kindness, and the happiness that comes from being part of a family where our Heavenly Father takes great joy in our choosing good and refusing evil.

Trust and obey for there's no other way to be happy in Jesus, than to trust and obey.

In reply dear Brother Micheal in Jesus,

Thank you for sincere response and those profound truth texts,

surely you are correct the doctrine i attempted to define as original sin can not accurately extend to these little ones in Deuteronomy as far as you have found contrary evidence and man created in God's image can not be said to be born "originally" a sinner because there is not yet knowledge of good or evil. This concords with the first man Adam who did not yet "know" good or evil when he was originally made.

Trust and Obey.....When we walk with the Lord in the light of His word

did Adam ever walk with God?

Greetings in the Name of my and hopefully your Lord Jesus Christ,

why my? because He saved,is saving and will save me from sin death and hell as long as i remain in Him!

i have received new evidence from my brother about original sin so i submit it below and re-define my definition of what i thought was "original sin".

Also i wish to submit that this post query is in response to a lecture given by Charles G Finney the first in his series on regeneration. here is the link to the lecture which is found in the systematic theology section given at Oberlin back in the 1840 and 50's

http://www.finneyworks.com/CF04.html

i initially wrote

"recently it was brought to my attention that many believers do not believe in a doctrine known as "original sin"..., "

perhaps i should say many did and still apparently do from what i heard from Finney's lecture today is that He and neither serious students of the bible like Him believe in total constitutional sinful depravity of man which i believe is aka "original sin" correct me please if i am wrong. he also defines that this has serious implications for what we understand as biblical regeneration aka. salvation, conversion or new birth.

I believe that A.T. Overstreet http://www.gospeltruth.net/menbornsinners/mbs07.h
teaches this as well as

those who represent this website
http://www.bible.ca/cal-T-refutation.htm

now to re-define what i understand as "original sin" as presently understood in my own mind

Original Sin: every human is born practically innocent because they are unknowing/unregenerate and immediately are inclined to follow this nature which will naturally speaking pursue and practice prideful rebellion against authority and selfishness which will be evident to all honest inquiry. This natural and inherent condition will for most inevitably who mature to adulthood result in a knowledgeable transgression against God which is punishable by death(of the whole man),

An additional scientific evidence given by a brother

man inherits his sinful nature genetically through the physical blood of His first parents and so all men coming from adam have sinned because of inheriting the tainted life blood of Adam

If any brother have any helpful information/ brief profound truth that is additional or contrary please reply.

Thankful for God's loving children
my brethren

Richard

Salutations from the spirit of Christ to the spirit of Christ.

Just a few thoughts / questions concerning your last entry. I may be creating more questions than answers, but we know that the questions impossible for men are possible for God and every good gift and every perfect gift comes from above. I trust that honest questioning hearts will receive answers from above.

you used the phrase "practically innocent" in your re-definition of "original sin". Is that like sin that is worked out in practice, or is that like almost innocent, but still guilty?

2Kings 21:16 says that innocent blood was shed, in reference to the prophets. If blood contains the sinful nature, the when we are regenerated of God our blood becomes innocent.

Leviticus 17:11 says that the life of the flesh is in the blood and it is the blood which makes atonement for the soul.

Ezekiel 18:4,20 says the soul that sins shall die. How then is the sin nature passed from a warm, physical, bodily, liquid, to the invisible non-physical conscience of man.

These verses and others leaves me to believe that there is something more to a man, (his "nature" or disposition for choosing good and refusing evil), than a physical, animal nature contained within the parameters of physical body.

It seems to me that the propensity to choose good and refuse evil has more to do with things which cannot be seen, than things that can be seen.

2Corinthinas 4:18 says that the things seen are temporal, and the things unseen are eternal.

If our sin nature is wrapped up in our blood than everyone who dies (which is everyone) will have their sin nature dealt with at the point of physical death.

Finally if our blood is the same as adam's then adam also was created by God with a "sin nature". If God created adam with a sin nature and he was created in the image of God? Would that logically necessitate that God has a sin nature? I ask the question, because i'm not sure if it really is a logical conclusion. And it still leaves me wondering why man is in such dire need of choosing the good and refusing the evil, if his nature is either neutral or that of God's. Perhaps we need to understand the word nature more clearly?

All things were created by Him, through Him and for Him. Glory be to God in all things!

Brother Micheal