Is this weird?

This was knew for me, sunday school class took a little field trip down the hall today, this is being done by all classes in the church from the preschool to adults. So what they are doing is having everyone take a sheet of craft paper as and lay down on it and have someone trace your body on the craft paper. you know how kids we used to trace our hands! then we are to cut around the tracing of our body. I am told that once it is all completed the church is going to lay all those paper cut outs of members on the new building slap and pray over it! Not sure why they are doing this, but seems a bit odd? this is a new one for me!!

interested what others might think? There is a lot more people on SI that are smarter than me, is there any reason biblically they want to do this? i for one don't understand it. thought someone might have some input on why?

In Him

If it's meant as a "visual aid", a help to "focussing" in prayer for people, its OK. It's the sort of thing anyone might do in Sunday School, to emphasise to the children that God loves them, knows each individual, looks after them etc. Unusual for adults but OK.

If its meant as a gimmick, well maybe its harmless.

If its meant as an exercise in "faith" - that is if anyone imagines that praying for all the cutouts of bodies will do any good to the real people then it's akin to magic, and totally wrong. I woldn't be too happy if they lay hands on the cutouts and pray...

Blessings

Jeannette

Yes I am sure it is harmless, but just a bit odd. Its a new one for me.

LittleGift wrote:
If it's meant as a "visual aid", a help to "focussing" in prayer for people, its OK. It's the sort of thing anyone might do in Sunday School, to emphasise to the children that God loves them, knows each individual, looks after them etc. Unusual for adults but OK.

If its meant as a gimmick, well maybe its harmless.

If its meant as an exercise in "faith" - that is if anyone imagines that praying for all the cutouts of bodies will do any good to the real people then it's akin to magic, and totally wrong. I woldn't be too happy if they lay hands on the cutouts and pray...

Blessings

Jeannette

I was going to agree completely with what you said Jeannette, but then remembered hearing a sermon by someone a while back, the preacher made some very good points as to why 'visual aids' are not that great - it may have been Art Katz but don't quote me on that.

He talks about people that use images or symbols to help 'focus' their minds, and gives an example about people using a crucifix to remember Jesus. I can't remember exactly what he said, but made some very good points as to what was wrong with doing that.

Hang on, it may have been... [i]And They Crucified Him[/i]? Which would be by Art Katz

It's worth the listen even if completely unrelated!

reformer asked

Is this weird?

Because, you've got all the people there in real 3D life, to pray over if you really care about them, and they are being [u]de[/u]personalised into pieces of [i][b][color=CC0099]craft paper?[/color][/b][/i].

I can understand visual aids to help understand things we cannot see - even people we cannot see - but for people who are already there in person...? You don't want to know what I think more than this.

It's more than a gimmick... It's an exercise in just how willing to be led astray this group of people are. It starts with something subtley unobjectionable, and it gradually turns into that no matter how far out it is, anyone who disagrees or doesn't want to do it or thinks the leadership are losing what intelligence they had (once), is a troublemaker.

I'm (obviously) not impressed. It is for exactly this literally practical reason, that I wouldn't let my children take part in the activities of other religions they learned about at school.

Now tell me... One day, you're going to stand before the throne of God (with your church leadership) and explain to Him why you joined in this ritual in His Name... [i]really?[/i]

No doubt I have my own explaining to do for the mistakes I've made too. But one thing about mistakes is one does not make them deliberately.

There is another aspect to this, which is the sheer indignity of people lying down in each other's presence in this way for this purpose. I am not at all against people lying down [u]to pray[/u] in each others' presence when their minds should most definitely be on the Lord, but this sounds sooo carnal, I have to say I'd be uncomfortable just planning it, let alone doing it, or taking responsibility for asking others to do it.

I know... EDITED If necessary, please forgive my skepticism. Someone else on this forum might be able to convey the same concern with a greater concern for the spiritual welfare of those who thought up this escapade... It may even have come from a book... I just don't see how this is the best way of nurturing the local body of Christ.

Yes... it [b]is[/b] [u]weird[/u]!

ginnyrose wrote:
Reformer,

God does not need a paper cut out to see me, or anyone else, for that matter! And to use a paper cut out to assit the prayees to visualize as they pray smacks to me of a violation of the second commandment: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image...." The use of 'graven images' was to assist the worshippers in their worship of their diety. Since this practice reminds me of this, I would run from it, challenge it lovingly (doubt though that it would work given the modern mindset that everything goes except opposition!).

A godly person prays as the Spirit leads. He/she does not need any visual aids. Perhaps a personal study in prayer of the OT & NT saints might teach you more on this subject. If you do this it would root and ground you where you will be better equipt to confront this issue. In fact, I think this is essential before any confrontation occurs.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Yes when i was told this I thought of creating idols. I plan on talking to someone in leadership, when I get all the facts from scripture and prayerfully consider want I want to say.

We have been praying if God wants us to stay or start looking for another church. I think God made it clear to me.

dorcas wrote:

reformer asked

Is this weird?

I think so.

Because, you've got all the people there in real 3D life, to pray over if you really care about them, and they are being [u]de[/u]personalised into pieces of [i][b][color=CC0099]craft paper?[/color][/b][/i].

I can understand visual aids to help understand things we cannot see - even people we cannot see - but for people who are already there in person...? You don't want to know what I think more than this.

It's more than a gimmick... It's an exercise in just how willing to be led astray this group of people are. It starts with something subtley unobjectionable, and it gradually turns into that no matter how far out it is, anyone who disagrees or doesn't want to do it or thinks the leadership are losing what intelligence they had (once), is a troublemaker.

I'm (obviously) not impressed. It is for exactly this literally practical reason, that I wouldn't let my children take part in the activities of other religions they learned about at school.

Now tell me... One day, you're going to stand before the throne of God (with your church leadership) and explain to Him why you joined in this ritual in His Name... [i]really?[/i]

No doubt I have my own explaining to do for the mistakes I've made too. But one thing about mistakes is one does not make them deliberately.

There is another aspect to this, which is the sheer indignity of people lying down in each other's presence in this way for this purpose. I am not at all against people lying down [u]to pray[/u] in each others' presence when their minds should most definitely be on the Lord, but this sounds sooo carnal, I have to say I'd be uncomfortable just planning it, let alone doing it, or taking responsibility for asking others to do it.

I know... EDITED If necessary, please forgive my skepticism. Someone else on this forum might be able to convey the same concern with a greater concern for the spiritual welfare of those who thought up this escapade... It may even have come from a book... I just don't see how this is the best way of nurturing the local body of Christ.

Yes... it [b]is[/b] [u]weird[/u]!

Why are condemning me? I understand your upset, but ask your self what are YOU going to say before the Throne room? We all make mistakes,

I wasn't happy, I am already known for being outspoken, so I did it! Can't take it back!

Why are condemning me?

... I wasn't happy.

When I wrote my post, I had not picked up from yours that this was [i]already[/i] history. That was my mistake. If I'd realised, I would not have phrased it as if you have an option still to come and could refuse. I'm glad you weren't happy. I now realise that's why you posted the thread. Please re-read my post as 'I'm glad you were unhappy. I agree with you completely!'

And your question about what I'm going to say in the throne room has been on my mind since I posted it. You're correct there! What [i]am[/i] I going to say?

All that said, I did wonder whether to post at all because I realised I was out of my usual calm exterior. The truth is, although I didn't have to do that particular thing, I do feel I was made to look foolish with a whole bunch of other dear saints, some years ago. None of us could stop the situation. It was a matter of continuing to lose touch with reality, or, getting out and retaining a sense of control in one's own life.

I did eventually leave but not until other things had become much worse. I realise it's a learning curve for each of us from which no-one can protect us.

I found some other information, I guess they plan on placing the cut outs around where the new building will be and people will go out in groups of eight and pray. people will write scriptures and so forth. I guess the idea came from the pastors wife.

I am debating on going to schedule a meeting with the pastor and share some of my concerns about many things i see the church doing.The church definetly seems different from a couple of years ago, I don't know if I just changed and never noticed.

i am not sure though if I should go and talk to the pastoral care minister, he is a veteran of the faith and has much wisdom. I really don't know if I should even say anything or not? its heavey on my heart.

We will not be taking part of the praying we will skip the sunday school class. Pray for me

reformer, God Bless you - God gave you discernment on this issue within your spirit.

The problem in the Church is that they've thrown out Discernment and Discernment Ministries and now see everything as "judging".

What you've described is plain and simpley described as "Witchcraft".
Why the church can't call a spade a spade anymore without all of this nonsense of beating around a bush. Ravenhill must be pacing Heaven saying "How long Oh Lord?"

Even Watchman Nee, or Lewis or any of them would say that - and without the benefits that we have in these days of searching the Internet for Discernment or apologetic type sites.

You and your wife are growing and yes, the church at large IS changing - it's "written" that it would - become Apostate [Big falling away from The Truth].
Fasten your seatbelt - it's going to be a horrific ride.

With my empathy - but HE Reigns.

Sounds interesting. They are just showing that the paper they cut out is the Church body.

dohzman wrote:
I think churches sometimes do things out of ignorance and we spend all our energies splitting hairs. Now I'm not saying that's the case here, however until there's honest confrontation and dialogue, who's to say? Unless the Lord has spoken by way of revelation, and than one can say "thus saith the Lord" and back it with scripture based on sound doctrine and maybe even some historical instances, than I would exercise extreme caution. It is all to easy for anyone not personally involved to chime in and tell another what to do, but that can be and is often manipulation which is wrong. Unless there's blantant out and out sin, like the one church in Oregon where the Pastor had people in a prayer class pair up with the opposite sex and stare into each others eyes until there was a spiritual connection, that's a plain New Age practice and that church ended up having a 75% divorce rate along with several suicides. If sin is plain, flee for your lives. Proverbs says not to judge a matter without the full matter being known, and Reformer is the only one who knows the full matter in this case, but it will take some bold steps and the wisdom that comes from above.

I believe these things come into our lives inorder to force us to study and dig into a matter and listen to see what God will say, that way we stand on sure footing when we make a direction choice. That is the narrow path for most, we don't want to take the pains to hear from heaven.

Thank you for the advice.