Sodom was overthrown in a moment with no hand to help her...

Greetings in Jesus' Name Dear Saints by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

over the last few weeks i had been led to read out of Lamentations and a bit out of Amos. the latter reading was out of a thread on which bro Jeff (Rookie) posted a response to a question which i believe bro Rahman asked using excerpts from that book. at first i read over and over Lamentations 1 vs 1-3:

[b]1How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people! how is she become as a widow! she that was great among the nations, and princess among the provinces, how is she become tributary!

2She weepeth sore in the night, and her tears are on her cheeks: among all her lovers she hath none to comfort her: all her friends have dealt treacherously with her, they are become her enemies.

3Judah is gone into captivity because of affliction, and because of great servitude: she dwelleth among the heathen, she findeth no rest: all her persecutors overtook her between the straits.
[/b]

i believe within the next 90 days, the things which i believe God showed me here on this thread[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=12628&forum=35&19]Prophetic Credentials 3[/url] will come to pass. When i read the above scriptures, it began to dawn on me how applicable they are to us now. The Lamentations speak of the punishment which fell upon Judah which was spoken of by Jeremiah. it seems to me that we are guilty of much of (if not all and more) what Israel was Judged for and such calamity visiting us to me seems certain, being a matter of when rather than if. in the midst of this all though, Lamentations 3 is very comforting for in it we see that God doesn't cast men away forever (vs 31-32) and that He is good to those whose hope is in Him (vs 21-25)

as i was reflecting earlier on what God showed me about what is soon coming, i remembered a dream which i had last night in which God spoke to me saying that the time was very near and shortly thereafter i was filled with much sadness. as i read the word today in Lamentations 4 there was a grim exposition of the judgments which fell on Israel but this verse hit me hard:

[b] 6For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her. [/b]

Sodom was undone in a moment along with Gomorrah and the other cities of the plain.there may well have been hundreds of thousands of people, maybe millions living there who got wiped out save for 3. i reflected a bit more on what i believe God showed not only me but others that what is coming will be our undoing and it will happen in a moment. The seeds of the economy collapsing have long since been sown and are bearing fruit but in a moment, all the fruit will bring the tree down. in that same day, fire will fall on New York and D.C. leaving both in ruin, in an instant...This is why that scripture struck me so that in an instant things can change dramatically. bro Wilkerson spoke of things changing in one hour in a previously featured sermon.

one minute Sodom was there, then it was not, one moment the America we know and the world we know will be, and then the next...it won't...

that shook me anew, God help us.AMEN.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

ironman, Remember, God removes his people before he destroys a city.
My next logical reasoning would be that you have changed to a pre trib rapture position.
Is this true?
.......David

Greetings bro Dave in Jesus' Name by WHose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

you said:

psalm1 wrote:
ironman, Remember, God removes his people before he destroys a city.
My next logical reasoning would be that you have changed to a pre trib rapture position.
Is this true?
.......David

what i was sharing here isn't the tribulation but a Judgment to fall on America. i doubt very much this would mean the beginning of the trib though. God did move Lot and His family out of Sodom, but when Jerusalem was sacked by Nebuchadnezzar, people like Daniel were still there, Ezekiel was yet there and these ones among other Godly men were carried off into captivity.when 9-11 happened, some Godly men and women perished in those towers, how come God didn't get them out in time?if you read the Lamentations you find instances of women having to eat their children, children starving to death, women being ravished, people being killed by the sword and so on...and these are God's people here...how come the children weren't spared, how come babies were eaten if God took out all the innocent before he destroyed Jerusalem?

as for the rapture being pre-mid-post trib, we will see soon enough so i'm leaving that alone.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

Ironman, Greetings to you also. I like the way you start your posts. I can feel the warmth. yes we should always be kind and you set a good example.
now...re read your last 3 sentences. you compare america judgement with sodom-gamohrra?
that is why I said what I said.
Then you changed the analogy to 9/11.
The world trade center fell at the hands of demon driven sickos.
God doesent borrow the devils angels to do his work.
I was teasing you about the rapture thing.
I just couldnt resist.
God bless you,
....David

i believe within the next 90 days

Thats a dangerous statement to make. I believe America is already in judgment. Now in Sodom's case judgment could not fall until Lot and his family were removed, and for the end time destruction of this present age Jesus told us to rember Lot's wife, breaking it down to the individual, He did the same with the tower of Saloam in Luke's gospel, he broke it down to the individual, you see ONE godly friend of God like Abraham can turn the wrath of God due to come to a part of the earth away and the Lord will spare.
Trouble is there really aren't very many people who have the guts to stand in the gap and cry out to Holy God for mercy on behalf of wicked man, we would rather pronounce the judgments of God without any real prayer for mercy.I make these statements in a general sense with no one person in mind. But it is easily observed in churches across the land today, I call it the dry eyed prophet sin-drum(sp???).

bro David
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

i was talking of a specific event, a specific judgment which would be like Sodom and Gomorrah's own in that it happens in an instant. according to what i believe our Lord showed me from about 2 yrs ago about what is coming soon, those events occur in one day. one moment all is well, the next it isn't, that's the comparison.Even with 9-11, it happened in an instant, all was well one moment, the not the next.

now you did say this though which i found interesting:

The world trade center fell at the hands of demon driven sickos.
God doesent borrow the devils angels to do his work.

actually bro, everything in creation is at our Lord's disposal for whatever He wishes. The enemy himself can't do anything except God allows it. now if you remember, Israel fell under Judgment several times, under Assyria,and when Nebuchadnezzar sacked Jerusalem and took captives to Babylon, even under Rome. all these were pagan nations. God called Assyria His rod of anger here in Isaiah 10:

[color=0000FF]5 O F59 Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation. 6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets. [/color]

These were demon driven sickos...have you read some of the things which they did upon conquering peoples?

in Jeremiah 21 He says:

[b][color=0000FF]7 And afterward, saith the LORD, I will deliver Zedekiah king of Judah, and his servants, and the people, and such as are left in this city from the pestilence, from the sword, and from the famine, into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of their enemies, and into the hand of those that seek their life: and he shall smite them with the edge of the sword; he shall not spare them, neither have pity, nor have mercy. [/color][/b]

now the Babylonians for sure were demon driven...our Lord uses the nations against one another, He used these heathen ones against Israel and He still does so today, raising up nations, casting down etc.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

bro Daryl
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

you said bro:

Thats a dangerous statement to make. I believe America is already in judgment.

i agree, however i was speaking in terms of a very specific Judgment which has been shown to several saints i know outside of myself. if you read PC3 it's spelled out there and the date of these happenings is this year so hence the 90 days, sometime between now and the end of the yr.

the comparison with Sodom and Gomorrah had more to do with the swiftness of the Judgment/event. the scripture which i spoke of in Lamentations 4 really hit me hard because of the swiftness of the Judgment which came upon those cities, it was in an instant. that's the thing that got me.

Trouble is there really aren't very many people who have the guts to stand in the gap and cry out to Holy God for mercy on behalf of wicked man, we would rather pronounce the judgments of God without any real prayer for mercy.I make these statements in a general sense with no one person in mind. But it is easily observed in churches across the land today, I call it the dry eyed prophet sin-drum(sp???).

indeed there are some like this with no pity/compassion. for a time i sought God that He would stay His Hand and He asked me to stop that because there was no staying it. However i then began to seek Him that souls would be saved before, during and after all this, that we would turn from our wickedness. so far, He hasn't asked me to stop that and this is what i believe the crying out you mentioned ought to be about. i'm all cried out now but still seeking Him that many would be saved.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

I see,... as far as the end of this year I'll let the days bring their declarations, we shall see. The judgments in this country have been swift for several years, but something so earth shaking that the American way will be forever changed, while I believe it will happen I don't see it happening this year.I believe that the Lord will send a revival around America and the world but it will appear more like cities of refuge than an entire change of say one whole state.

Ironman, Greetings to you also,
The nation against nation thing......We of course will have good vs evil.
Yes God is in everything. And he has purposes. I dont dispute that.
We can see this more clearly in a separate example.
If a man[head of household] murders his family can we say that is Gods judgement against the family?
Or put it another way.....Why did God kill the man that tried to steady the ark?
It was a sin against Gods power.
It was like saying to God "let me do this God you cant take care of your own so I need to step in and help you God.
God doesnt need ANYTHING Of the devil to do his work.
Did God call upon the devil when he destroyed Sodom and gamorrah?
We have several enemies as believers...The world theflesh and the devil
....David

bro David Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

God can use whatever agent He desires for Judgment. When God gives a man over to reprobate mind, He is letting the enemy do whatever he wants to him and that is a form of Judgment. i didn't say He does it all the time but He does do it enough for us to know it...it's not that He needs help but as God HE can do as He pleases and i think that disturbs us quite a bit.

the point i am getting at isn't the above but rather the swiftness of the Judgment of God which can come upon us.One moment all is well, the next, all is not well...
Grace and PEace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

bro Daryl
Greetings in Jesus.Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

I see,... as far as the end of this year I'll let the days bring their declarations, we shall see. The judgments in this country have been swift for several years, but something so earth shaking that the American way will be forever changed, while I believe it will happen I don't see it happening this year.I believe that the Lord will send a revival around America and the world but it will appear more like cities of refuge than an entire change of say one whole state.

that's what i had said on that thread. if none of this happens, i'll apologize, repent and sit down and be quiet coz there won't be anything left to say thereafter. i do believe though that something calamitous will happen. The point of the thread is the swiftness of such happenings. we have 3 months and all that is needed is a moment...it doesn't seem like anything could happen but that could change in a moment...

people have been experiencing what i guess would be personal revivals and seeking for such on a broader scale. i think that these events will spur people on since adversity does have a way of causing us to come home running to Jesus. Of course not everyone will get on board so in that sense like you said, it will be like cities of refuge.

90 days is a lot of time when all that is needed is a moment and that's what i've been trying to get my head around.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

Bro Daryl you wrote;
"Thats a dangerous statement to make. I believe America is already in judgment."

--- Actually it's a very "freeing" statement to make ...

i too have felt led of our Lord to make a pre-diction for 2007 after over 20 years of struggling in the warning mode of a watchman ... i've both posted here on SI, spoke it to other saints i know, and informed the Bishop of my assingned fellowship, that we will see unmistakable REVIVAL burst forth in our midst before this year is thru ... So at least if bro Ironman is barking up a wrong tree he will be mercifully terminated in a far less extensive time frame than my own ...

bro Ironman believes that our Lord has revealed to him that America's "financial collapse" will occur in 2007, with the added defining that our Lord will reveal to him it's happening 3 days prior for it's proclamation ... i've never been one in the past to attach to such a pointed prophecy, but felt led of our Lord to also attach my faith to his in confirmation and culmination of all that i've been hearing, warning of, and waiting on, for over two decades now ...

So i too have made what may be concidered a dangerous statement, and before anyone starts chuckin' stones, i hope you can find it sufficient to just wait in the knowledge that there are only 3 months left in this year of 2007, and that if what we believe (and we do believe) led of our Lord to pre-dict (and in these cases there's no getting around that they are predictions = to declare or indicate in advance) proves to not come true, then God will prove us false prophets (and false prophets are exactly what we'll be proven to be) not of Himself, and in the midst of what will surely be a most painful (but equally freeing from continued error) experience for bro Ironman and myself in that somehow we we're deluded enough to include our Lord's name in such error - then feel free to begin chuckin' them "i told you so's" - but be it also known that in the spiritual sense that part of us will already be dead, gratefully never to rise again, and what remains of us will be thanking Him for killing that part of us ...

God knows this stepping out on faith in pre-diction of what we're telegraphing an actual "word" from God Himself is scary in so many different areas! ... In our humanity this is not an easy place, but bless God one way or the other He will yet get All the glory regardless of what we're proven to be, and Rom. 8:28 will be at work either way to all who have read this here on SI, as well as to ourselves (tho it might take a while to come to such an understanding as to how) ...

Bro Ironman wrote;
"if none of this happens, i'll apologize, repent and sit down and be quiet coz there won't be anything left to say thereafter."

--- Amen ... and ditto for myself ---

In the final analysis let God be found true, and every man a liar ... Blessings in Christ Jesus our Lord ---

Ironman,
for now i am "sort of" agreeing with you!
Oh and I almost forgot...Greetings to you too.

...Grace to you also,
...........David

He reigns,
Thats got to be a classic."botox shot in one eyebrow"
I may want to borrow that one[with permission]
Thanks . David

I do want to add what Amos stated, I am no prophet, neither was my father a prophet, I can't even seem to make buisness profitable :-( .
As to date prophesy of specific things happening at specific times, I have observed very few actually come to pass as expected, that's all.Historically speaking that is, but these days especially I'm pretty cautious since it would seem that my little piece of this ole' world has turned upside down. Blessings in Christ Bro. daryl

Ironman, I suppose I agree that God can use a nation to judge another nation.
Mainly from looking at the Romans occupation of israel. I suppose i would have to agree with you.
Just never really did a study of this type.
David

bro Compliments

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose BLood we are Saved.AMEN.

you said:

Compliments wrote:
Sobering messages you have there Ironman. My flesh says, I hope your wrong. My spirit says, Thine will be done. God Bless

i know bro, over the last few weeks there has been an increasing heaviness in my heart over what i believe is shortly to happen. my wife and i are expecting another daughter in January, she is quite something, so very active, more so than her older sister. a part of me hopes i'm wrong but the greater part of me knows better...the Lod's will be done indeed.AMEN.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.