WAR! ... What is it Good For? ...

When i was coming up, during the Vietnam war, there was a song called "WAR", sang by a man named Edwin Star ... He'd gruffly sing out "WAR! ... What is it good for"? ... Then he'd just a gruffly answer himself, "absolutely nothing"! ... i'm not so sure about that ... As awful as war is man's documentaries will tell you in retrospect what they thought it to be good for ... Just as God sometimes maps out in His scripture what it's good for in His useage towards His will being done here on earth as it already is in heaven ... Even our King of Peace has His sword ...

Ever since encountering Pastorfrin over on his thread ...

[b]Wars, Rumors of War and the Christians ...[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=19765&forum=35&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

... i've been doing some research on: WAR ...

i've started this new thread because Pastorfrin's thread has to do with the scripturally based ideal of Christians not starting and/or participating in war, whereas this thread is more about the reality that even professed Christians, and professed Christian nations have both started, and participated in wars ... This thread is not about declaring whether that's right or wrong in God's eyes, or if a Christian is saved or not if they start/participate in war, but moreso about the sobering historical facts of war, which seems to have become an inextricable part of mankind's life after the fall ...

i did a search in scripture and "war" must be mentioned some 300+ times ... War first began in heaven, when satan and a third of the angels were ousted by Michael and the good angels ... In some of the ancient Hebrew writings the story is told that one of the first things the fallen angels who came down to earth to cohabit with the daughters of man did, was to teach mankind how to war with one another, making known to them how to get metal out of the ground to make swords, etc ... Then after the Flood by the time the seeds of Noah's three son had multiplied enough for them to begin to war with one another, they went at it with gusto...

By the time God had groomed Israel into a nation, war became an everyday part of their exsistense initially as they had to war to get the land, then war to keep the land, and even Jehovah Himself was concidered to be "a man of war" ...

[b]Exod.15
[3] The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.[/b]

Prophecy is full of predictions and God's utilization of war, and while mankind would be much better off without it even Christ Himself said ...

[b]Mark.13
[7] And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.[/b]

He said "wars and rumors of wars must needs be" ... What did He mean by that, it makes me wonder is war enevitable due only to the degeneration of man or does it also somehow fit as a necessity into God's plan? ... i've watched documentaries on the horrors of the Vietnam War ... Recently i've watched Ken Burn's Civil War Series, and as sad as that was to view that war seemed tame in weapontry of mass destruction when compared to what i'm seeing on his new WWII documentary .... Yikes! ... i'd seen pictures of the Holocaust before, and no matter how often i see them instead of getting desensitized they seem to even strike me with more horror, particularly because i know it's coming again in the Great Trib with even greater vengence ... But the new WWII documentary is far more raw than anything i've seen previously, and the thing that strikes me most about it is that both WWI, and WWII, were participated in by many nations, and peoples, who concidered themselves Christians ... It's interesting to hear in the WWII series, soldiers talking about Christ and having to kill in the same sentence, one particular that stood out for me was a man who'd taught Sunday School prior to enlisting ... It's also interesting to hear how many of the old WWII vets have no trouble in justifying the killing of the German Nazis, Italian Fascist and Japanese in their Christianity, as WWII is seen by them as a just war ... But the thing that really got me was when they said at least 40 million people died in WWII ... That's staggering, but no where near as staggering as what i've discovered from the links below ... i don't even want to try and imagine the surrealism that would be WWIII ...

[b]List of wars[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars

[b]List of wars involving the United States[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_wars

[b]Military history of the United Kingdom[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United_Kingdom

[b]List of wars and disasters by death toll[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_disasters_by_death_toll

Wars really make this line in The Battle Hymn of the Republic come into a stark visualization for me ...

[b]"Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord ... He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored ... He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword ... His truth is marching on".[/b]

i know many saints who can't see God in any wars, they may be right, but i can and do, even tho i may be wrong ... All i know is Romans 9 says God has already chosen vessels of mercy (heaven bound) and vessels of wrath (hell bound) and it seems nothing that man does on this planet shas the massive capability of sending us to our consecutive pre-destinies like war, especially Civil and World Wars ... Just makes me wonder even more ... And then to top it off everything ends in war ...

[b]Rev.12
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Rev.13
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev.17
[14] These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Rev.19
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[19] And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.[/b]

Thank God, no matter what the origins and reasons for war, when He brings all to the following ...

[b]Isa.2
[4] And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Rev.21
[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
[5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
[6] And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.[/b]

Rahman,

I did not read any of the links you posted but I do want to respond to the initial question you asked: "War! What is it Good for?"

This afternoon I was talking to friend. Her DH was a career military officer; her DD married a fellow who served time in Iraq and has now come home.

My friend told me how her SIL is so messed up because of the time spent there, said how it is happening to so many Iraq veterans; also told me he saw a lot of combat.

What is it good for? Messing up people all in the name of freedom, ah reckon. Oh yes, it fills the wallets of the manufacturers of war machinery and the ammunition it requires ...in other words it provides a lot of people with good paying jobs..

ginnyrose

Brother Rahman quoted:

Mark.13
[7] And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

These Scriptures came to mind...

Revelation 6:

1 Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

Rev. 6:3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.

Rev. 6:5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”

Rev. 6:7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

In Christ
Jeff

Sis Ginnyrose you wrote;
"I did not read any of the links you posted ..."

--- Then sis you missed the entire reason for this thread ... the amount of souls that are swept into either "heaven" or "hell" because of (post Christianity) wars ... And the amount of wars started and participated in by perhaps the two greatest bastion nations of Protestant Christianity, Britain and America ... On Ken Burn's WWII documentary last night i saw communion being taken on the battlefield (never saw that before) ... People and nations professing Chritianity it seems have not stopped wars, but has instead been incorporated into war ... i've found it interesting that in many wars, with professing Christians on both sides, they're all praying to God for the victory ... The American Civil War was especially like this ---

Sis Ginnyrose you wrote;
"What is it good for? Messing up people all in the name of freedom, ah reckon. Oh yes, it fills the wallets of the manufacturers of war machinery and the ammunition it requires ...in other words it provides a lot of people with good paying jobs.."

---Sis i understand your points, but they to me are the surface answers, the ones that dwell in the "natural", the same as when we blame world leaders and politicians for our wars, i'm more interested in the "supernatural" cause, the not so apparent "war" going on between God and satan in the invisible, that plays out in our visible, in fact is being played out with us as for lack of a better analogy like "chess pieces" ... As i said before we may look at wars in the natural as man's blunders, but (to me) in the super-natural i think they're more so strategy because all these conflicts move us ever closer to His Final War ... People call the present Iraq War Bush's war ... i wonder, is it just that simple in occurence and explanation as his blunder, or is it a strategic move in the spirit realm as cause to some greater effect? ...

Yes guys are cracking up over there, and i'd think at a faster rate than say those of WWII ... i think old time American men were far different than modern recruits in that they did have a sense of self sacrifice to a greater cause than we do today ... We're more about self, and the thought of dying for just about anything makes us sick to our stomachs ... i think the Nam experience was a real horror to the idealitic youth that had to go there and see what they saw ... i often think that with my personality had it been God's will that i went, and come back, i'd probably be mentally and emotionally disabled ... i'd think the war in Iraq even harder on the troops, especially since they have to do so many tours ... It's got to feel like (to many) they're in a game of Russian Roulette ...

On the Ken Burn's WWII series last night it was stated that our government had determind then that a man could only do war for about 280 days before he went completely crazy ... i thought it would of been less than that, but i think it also took in account rotation ... It seems to me that American military is really to small now (not condoning but in observation) since the inception of the all volunteer army, and the stopping of the draft which i always thought an odd move (in Israel all are required to sign up for the military at a certain age) ... For a nation to survive i think the draft is necessary, and in America there's always the opportunity for anyone who is a CO to go before the authorities and say so like JW's and Quakers do ... i was raised JW, and at 17 was directed by my dad that i wasn't going to Nam, wasn't even serving in any capacity in the military, and was prepared to go to jail if i had to ... During that time i really believed the whole JW smiel, but all the while wanted to go into the AF like my uncles ... Anyhow i wound up not having to go, not even to jail ... So at least here in the U.S. they're open to saints whose conviction is not to fight, but then on the other hand i don't think it fair to question the salvation of others who choose to enlist ... i've had a few old saints tell me that God has a role for all of us to fulfill, i believe that tho the concept short circuits my brain in it's complexity, and in retrospect apparently mine wasn't to be in the military, whereas i believe some others apparently are ... i think of the promise that God gave to Japheth that he would be enlarged, and prosper ... That to me right there is a sure fire indication that wars would be in the making, and when we look back on history why were so many wars fought, European expansion into other folks territory, at which they had to defend ... Or the fact that there's always some aggressor, attempting to subjugate someone else ...

i think about WWII, as i watch this Ken Burn's documentary ... Hitler was a very bad guy ... They showed one clip where a soldier captured a German officer who knew exactly where little hometown in Conneticut was because Hitler already had plans of how he would subjugate the U.S. after his victory ... That's amazing to me ... It may be the ideal of Christianity not to war, to turn the other cheek, but that's not the historical reality ... We war, even Christians war, for not to do so on a national level would mean sure subjugation under tyranny ... The problem is tho, that mankind, even so called hristian nations, have a tendency to do to others, what we fight so hard against at someone else doing to us ... That's seems to be the shameful hypocrisy, but none-the-less the reality of war ...

Bro Jeff you wrote;
"These Scriptures came to mind..."

---Amen ... That's one thing i see about wars too ... they fulfill God's prophecy ... ---

Bro Krisp you wrote;
"Europe and Asia were on fire and out of control"

--- Amen ... When one looks at the conflict of WWII in the natural it does look like things were out of control, but in the supernatural i think it the exact opposite, and was all a part of God's being in control, working out things down here towards His ultimate end in ways most of us can't even begin to fathom, because for one thing we've boxed God into our concept and definition of what it means to be a "loving" Creator, when His concept and definition of Himself is so far above our own understanding and comprehension ... People think that a God who uses bloodshed, and war, to His ends, can't be considered a loving God, it's one of the tenents used by atheist to lambast God, but true believer's know that God is "Love" regardless of rather it makes any logical sense to us His ways and actions ...

PS - i think any Christian who looks at WWII and can't see in Hitler something/someone far more sinister than just a person in "the natural" has pretty dull spiritual spider senses ... To me Hitler is like the second glimpse of the ultimate Revelation anti-Christ (Antiochus Epiphanes being the first) ... Hitler reeked of evil, yet i belive him to have been an intical part of God's continual tramping out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored ... Hitler (my belief) would have never been allowed on the scene had he not been of some importance to the continuation of God's truth/will marching on ---

--- God knows everything ... i/we know nothing ... i often think about how when God sent the two angels (one of which it's been said was Christ Himself) to destroy Sodom and Gommorah, and they swung by Abraham's place, not only did God already know that there wasn't anyone in S&G representative enough to save the cities, but also already knew that Abraham would challenge Him in their regard ... What an advantage! ...

Unlike Abraham, who perhaps didn't even have a clue of this concept, in my life i know that God knows everything and i nothing, but when i wonder, or even attempt my own barters with Him, i excersize in the scripture that's my life verse: Jer. 33:3 - "Call unto Me, and I will answer you, and I will tell you great and mighty things you knowest not" ...

i want to know what God knows, not the shallowness of my own or other mens explanations or speculations seen thru a glass darkly, and i bug Him to no end until He either tells/shows me or shuts me down like Job, because i totally believe He is a rewarder of those who "diligently" seek Him ...

In light of the present tense situations in the world, particularly now surrounding the Iraq War and the economic precariousness of the U.S., i get the same sense of "powder-keg" as in watching the documentary on WWII, that there's way more going on in the supernatural regarding this, than meets the eye in the natural ... i bug God a lot about this ---

Hi Krispy...

My wife and I have been watching this documentary. Last night's episode included mention of the pacifists who were compelled to serve. While they didn't want to shoot a rifle, they served as medics because they still believed in the cause.

I have often wondered whether or not a pacifist feels that there is ever a "cause" worth fighting for? Is there ever a "just cause?" Nearly every time that I ask this question, I am pointed to literature and beliefs of pacifist thought. In message boards, individuals seem to only "cut and paste" articles (with limited commentary) as the response to my questions.

I completely understand a tendency toward non-violence. However, I am somewhat convinced that a husband and father should protect the needs of his family. If a burglar were to break into my home and try to rape my wife (or in the future, my child), I would do evertthing possible to resist in order to protect. In my opinion, it would be a cause worth dying for. Yet my response would not be one of "hate" or a "lust for violence." Rather, I believe that it would be a righteous cause to protect my family.

Interesting enough, the pacifist's ideas (particularly, the ability to share them) are protected because of the ideas written into the Constitution of this nation. Do pacifists feel that such freedoms protected by the Constitution are worth safeguarding? Please don't misunderstand me: I don't hold the Constitution as a holy or infallible document. Yet I do understand and respect the principles that were included within it.

:-)

Brother Rahman,

James has it pretty well covered.

James 4:1-17
From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? [2] Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [3] Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. [4] Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. [5] Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? [6] But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Maybe this is why Jesus said:

Matthew 5:3-12
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. [4] Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. [5] Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. [6] Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [7] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. [8] Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. [9] Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [10] Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. [11] Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. [12] Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

If Jesus meant for us to be involved in war to fulfill the great commission then He would have said so.

Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus said: “all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” He did not the say, go ye therefore and make war to fulfill my will.

Jesus said to teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.
We all know what He commanded them. To deny themselves, to take up their cross daily and follow Him.

The only place I see any saints following Him to war is when He comes back and then it is He, Jesus himself, who does the destroying.

2 Thes. 2:8-12
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, [10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Rev. 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev. 19:21
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Notice, It Is HE, Our Lord who:

"and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."

Not man through war.

So tell me again what reading or watching war documentaries, about man at war with one another, will do for us.

Maybe prepare us for WWIII?

Seems our time would be better spent doing:

Ephes. 6:10-18
Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. [11] Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. [13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. [14] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; [15] And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; [16] Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. [17] And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: [18] Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

2 Cor. 10:3-5
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

One other little thing that Jesus taught His disciples, (you know, the ones that were to teach us to observe all things, whatsoever He commanded them) this has always kind of settled it for me, that yes God is in charge, so we are as His children to be:

Matthew 10:16-22
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. [17] But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; [18] And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. [19] But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. [20] For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. [21] And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. [22] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

You see for things to happen this way and for Him to ask us to react as He has; leaves no doubt that obedience to His will is how we endure to the end and are saved. Notice, these doves do not carry swords.

In His Love
pastorfrin

Hi HE_Reigns...

There's a difference between a pacifist and non-resistence Christians.

1. opposition to war or violence of any kind.
2. refusal to engage in military activity because of one's principles or beliefs.
3. the principle or policy that all differences among nations should be adjusted without recourse to war.

Source: Unabridged Random House Dictionary of the English Language

:-)

Ya know bro Krisp I just realized what mankind's tendency to war, and your haitus have in common ... Tho both WW's we're supposedly the War to end all wars, like you on your hiatus, they just keep on coming back! :-P ...

Just a little levity within such a sobering subject :-D ...

WWII does seem to me like it was a necessary war, for Hitler as i've stated seems to me to have been more than met the natural eye, and then becoming in unison with an emperor as god worshipping Japan ... Many of the guys on Ken Burn's documentary said the Japanese soldier were the worst of the foes to fight ...

From what i remember of Vietnam it never seemed like a war that would possibly spill over into a WW, but this one in Iraq i'm not so sure about, especially if the U.S. begins incursion into Iran ...

Just writing here and don't expect a reply ... your being on hiatus and all ... :-P

Pastorfrin you wrote;
"So tell me again what reading or watching war documentaries, about man at war with one another, will do for us. Maybe prepare us for WWIII?"

--- Pastor at the beginning of this thread i stated this ...

[b]Quote;[/b]
"i've started this new thread because Pastorfrin's thread has to do with the scripturally based ideal of Christians not starting and/or participating in war, whereas this thread is more about the reality that even professed Christians, and professed Christian nations have both started, and participated in wars ... This thread is not about declaring whether that's right or wrong in God's eyes, or if a Christian is saved or not if they start/participate in war, but moreso about the sobering historical facts of war, which seems to have become an inextricable part of mankind's life after the fall ..."

i don't know what it'll do for "us", and from your postings it'll do "nothing at all for you", but for me i still wonder a whole lot about wars, their origins, how and even do they fit into God's will and plan, and so i quest, and actually find it quite interesting that at this time the new WWII documentary is on TV ...

So bless God that you have all your answers and ducks all lined up in a row about this subject already :-D, but i don't :-( and is why i didn't post my wonderings on the threads you started ... I'm interested in this subject and hearing other saints take on it, so as i'm pretty clear of your take (tho i'll surely read whatever you post ) i'll more than likely not be spending to much time answering you back unless our Lord hits me with a real revelation thru you ... And amen, maybe it will show me something in preparation for WWIII, because i find this war in Iraq a potential powder keg akin to the beginnings of WWII, especially if it goes over into Iran, and wonder what prophetic fulfilments it may bring ... Maybe none, but i wonder ---

Hi pastor_frin...

So tell me again what reading or watching war documentaries, about man at war with one another, will do for us.

Maybe prepare us for WWIII?

:-(

Rahman wrote:

i'm more interested in the "supernatural" cause,

Am I wrong when I assume this is the heart of your thread?

This may sound too simple for such a complex question: do we have to know? and why is this so important?

Let me illustrate: our 25 YO DD got a brain tumor (glioblastoma) and died 18 months after the onset of symptoms. She was married, had two little children, the youngest 9.5 months old. After reading Job I became convinced I do not have to know the answers to my whys. This belongs to God. Then I thought "well, I will ask him after I get to heaven. Then I decided that once I am there it will not matter." Presently, this is where I am at when there are situations whose answers are ellusive, including the existance of wars. However, having said this, I do believe wars continue to prove to man the futility of attempting to solve problems man's way. Won't win, man! I also believe God uses what ever happens to his honor and glory. No event, no disaster occurs but that somewhere God is working drawing people to himself. He uses evil men to bring honor to him...consider Pharoah. The problem we have in understanding this is because we are not omniscient, or all-knowing.

Sometimes I think males just love to fight, they seem to be wired to want to best another: there is this urge to put down another so he can be king. They love football, wrestling, boxing, plus a few other sports which require brawn. They excell. While these sports appear to be innocuous, they nevertheless underscore the male's innate desire to be ...... This need is not totally bad because Adam was created in the image of God and his basic desire was the need to be worshipped, not unlike most males I know. However, Adam sinned and completely messed up his wiring, his drives. Perhaps it would serve males (or better yet, everyone) better to follow Jesus' example and teaching of turning the other cheek.

Interestingly enough, when you consider all the wars that have been fought, I am not aware of any which occurred to protect defenseless Christians. Am I wrong? The Anabaptists were hunted like rabbits and killed - by the Reformers. Russia, China and others killed Christians...anyone go to war to liberate them? And amazingly, while many died, the faith lived on. Their response in the midst of persecution had a greater impact then had they retaliated. "When I am weak, then I am strong" says Paul.

BTW: I did check out the links in the original post. Man never learns, does he?

My thoughts...

Blessings,
ginnyrose