Where do we go from here?

This is in some response to the Art Katz video and also some other things we have discussed before.As far as the things going on with the charasmatic movement and the prosperity movement-these things most of us already know - we have discussed them and proved them and listened to messages about them.I was exposing the "excesses" in the charasmatic and prophetic movement two years ago.I remember almost two years ago, I was listening to David Wilkerson as my last resource for mature sermons.That was the "highest" i could get. Then I reached a point when it was pointless to listen to him anymore. I already knew all of this. He wasn't telling me anything I didn't already know. He wasn't exposing anything I didn't already know.So, I turned to more classic books and other writers and speakers where I could get fed. Pretty much, the Holy spirit had to feed me. I could rely on the Holy Spirit to provide food and water when I needed it.There was a purpose for me to come to this site and it was to learn about reformation and the history of Christianity- which I did not know much about. But usually when I listen to a sermon- I may agree whole heartedly- but I am not getting my hunger satisfied because I already know what they are saying.I believe there are some others on here that are in the same boat. We can listen and read the same type of message over and over and , yes, it confirms what we believe- for the hundredth time-but there is a time to move on, to move up and to be fed more meat.I don't know about you, but I have a hunger for Christ, to know Him more, to feast with Him more, to be intimate with him more.Listening to people tell me over and over, what I already know does not satisfy me.All of these wonderful sermons and preachers and books are great- we need them for growing christians who are at these different levels. But once you are at that level and have been satisfied- you can't stay there unless you want to stay stagnant.I don't now if I am making much sense here. It is hard to put into words. I also don't want to pretend that i have 'arrived' at any such high level and don't need anything. I am very needy! I need the Lord more and more and I can't get my fill.It is very true about the different levels or progressions of knowing the truth (that were written about once by Chip Brogden)They are:.I Hungry For TruthII. Seeking For TruthIII. Choosing The TruthIV. Accepting The TruthV. Knowing The TruthVI. Believing The TruthVII. Living The TruthI guess I am at the point of living the truth- which is why I talk and preach and exhort people to 'LIVE IT OUT'. Don't just talk about it, complain about it, search for more confirmation about it...Live it.If I were to continue to read and listen about the same things I already know are truth- I will remain stagnant, I will not grow to my potential that the Lord wants to bring me to. There is more than complaining about the state of this world and the state of the Church- it's called LIFE. Living the Christ life. It's what we were created for- to glorify the Lord in every thing we do- every little detail of our lives. To walk with Him and talk with Him and enjoy Him.There is a time and place to exhort the church, etc...the Lord will see to it that we have plenty of opportunities if we walk with Him, hang onto the hem of His robe and follow Him around.I hope this was not too confusing or harsh sounding. If I were to keep listening and wanting to discuss , maybe, Wilkerson's sermons, I would be doing exactly what I was doing almost 2 years ago. It's a waste of time for me now. not for someone else that needs to hear them- not at all! But we have to be aware of what season we are in. If we are ready to move on- then we need to pick up our feet and move on.Satisfied in Him alone, chanin

Chanin wrote:But we have to be aware of what season we are in. If we are ready to move on- then we need to pick up our feet and move on.I agree. What will be the outcome? The world will begin to persecute those who are His. This will happen because there is enmity between His children and Satan. So when is the fight going to begin in the good olde USA?In LoveJeff

Chanin,Thank you for your candid post. I understand your email, my wife and I have been thinking the same thing.Please consider John 17:3: "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."To know God, personally and intimately. (The same Greek word for "know" is also used for the blessed union of man and wife.)May I suggest the book, Experiencing God, by Henry Blackaby. Mr. Blackaby's teachings on the personal relationship with God are just phenomenal. There is both a book and a workbook. I would suggest going through the workbook with your spouse or a close friend. That will allow you discuss the lessons. (It is a 15-week "course".) This material will help you apply all of the theology you have studied and grown to love.For instance, how does the doctrine of God's sovereignty play out in your day-to-day life. What about His omniscience? How does the doctrine of hell affect to daily activities?My wife and I have gone through this material about 3 times now. If you take your time and take it seriously, your life will be changed!Please check out his web page for more information:Henry BlackabyI hope this helps.God bless,Matthew

Thank you Matthew for that referal. My personal/intimate relationship with the Lord is not the problem at all. I started backwards. I came into a very intimate relationship with Christ first and let Him work in my life and my heart- then I learned some of the theology behind alot of Christianity. I see the good you can get out of studying some theology and church history, but it does not compare to our relationship with Christ. I do think this was something i needed to get some background on though, and see where others are coming from who come from a mainly theological and traditional Christianity.In Him, chanin

There are so many thoughts running through my mind right now. So much to say, yet I don't know how to put into words thse things I feel and know. This is the biggest thing that keeps coming to me: There is a difference between bringing a message of truth and BEING a message of truth. When we learn or discover truth- we want to tell everyone. Yet, we still need to become- as a person, that message. When we learn this new truth (not new but new to us) we have to learn to live this truth in our own lives. Then with our lives - it becomes the message.Here is a little bit from the my email to Rahman (hope you don't mind, Rahman):I have been letting the Lord work in me these last two years to refine me more and more so that I can become Christlike in humbleness and love. I know the problems and the causes in this world- but I must become The Message instead of just bring the message. If my life is The Message, I really won't have to say much. It takes time. It takes time to be refined until His reflection is there in yours. I would like to say that i have come along way in this because I have gone through the fire many times--I have volunteered to go through it and been put through it even without my consent. But i know there is more- I know the Lord will reach down into the bottom of the barrel and find more and more to refine.I will not be silent, but I will not come with a "Thus sayeth the Lord". I will educate, I will be a mouthpiece, I will edify, I will encourage and exhort- but I see that it pierces the heart when it is done the right way- in love, in humbleness, and in tears too.I see in my former zeal that I drove many people away because I thought I was supposed to be a 'prophet". No one listened to what I had to say. But as I grew in love for people and in the fruits of the spirit, I learned how to be the message and bring the message in a different light. Just me giving my Dad the Revival Hymn and the "Surrender" book did much more work in his heart than what I had been trying to say to him for two years. I find that God works in His own ways.---------------------"Why do so many know the Truth but do not live according to what they know? Because they mistake knowing for believing. It seems hard to describe the difference in words, but in real life experience the difference is easily demonstratable. Do you know the battle is already won and that Jesus is Lord? Oh yes, we know that. But do you believe it? You say you believe it, but if you aren't living it, then you don't believe it, whether you know it or not."This is such a strong point. There is a difference between "knowing" the truth- alot of us know the truth, some are just starting to get at it- but believing it and living it out is another story. It takes time and patience and refining and learning and stripping. Knowing that truth is not the goal or the end of the story- learning to live it out every day is the goal. The reason the Lord allows us to see the truth is not just so we'll know it and tell it- it's so we can believe it and live it. If we concentrate on letting the Lord change us into that truth, believe me, there will be plenty of "telling it" later on and along the way. We won't even have to try.Watching someone who lives a Christlike life says so much more than someone who talks about a Christlike life.In Him, chanin

Knowing that truth is not the goal or the end of the story- learning to live it out every day is the goal. The reason the Lord allows us to see the truth is not just so we'll know it and tell it- it's so we can believe it and live it. If we concentrate on letting the Lord change us into that truth, believe me, there will be plenty of "telling it" later on and along the way. We won't even have to try.Yes, yes and yes. THIS is what it's all about. Thanks for speaking from your heart, Chanin.

Knowing the truth can only occur as we follow Christ. We only have a shadow of understanding by reading Scripture. It is not truth until Jesus implants His word in our minds and hearts. As Chanin and others are saying it comes by knowing Him."This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."In ChristJeff

Wow Sis Chanin,Where to start was my first question to myself, then the Holy Spirit interupted saying, "I am the Alpha and Omega, all things begin and end with Me" ... So I prayed that He would use me in being your raven in the wilderness, as He is using you in being mine. "Where do we go from here"? is not the question that is really on your mind, but "Where do (I) go from here"? ... It's the same question that (I) found exasperating me a few years ago (I - is in parenthesis because our Lord eventually showed me that there was nothing wrong with the question, except the I) ... Any way I'd seemed to have come to the "end of my road", (I) didn't know what else to do, and at the "end of my road" is exactly where our Lord wanted me to be, and I'd dare say where He want's you also ... The proper question, He taught me some time later was, "Lord, where do you want me to go from here"? ... What I learned is that when we come to the end of our road (our agenda for how we want Him to deal with us), that's when He can set His own agenda in motion of how He wants to deal with us, how He wants us to deal with Him, and how He wants us to deal with others ... He taught me via the boy that gave Him the fish and bread that when we give ourselves to Him, He breaks, He blesses and He distributes as He sees fit ... We offered ourself to Him ... But the totally awesome, and miraculous thing about our Lord is, that even when we're not aware of the error of our well meaning usurption of His agenda, because He knows we're well meaning seekers even our over eagerness still always causes the Holy Spirit to move us towards Him, and His agenda for our lives ... As the Spirit analogized to me, "The Word is not a buffet, or smorgasbord, of which we serve ourselves, but a full, coursed, meal, in which He serves the Word to us" ... You said:((( I could rely on the Holy Spirit to provide food and water when I needed it.)))And this is the point exactly ... As with most buffets we have a tendency to (over) eat what we like most, in any amount we want to, and in whatever order ... Not so when the Holy Spirit is serving us the Word ... He doles Him out to us in proper order ... in proper intervals ... in proper portions ... etc ... The Holy Spirit is the only one that we can rely on to properly sustain and nourish us ... Case in point, I'm prone to eat up anything that has to do with prophecy, but thru you He's feeding me "Love - Ye though I speak with the tounge of men and angels but have not love" ... There once was a time when I wouldn't allow the Holy Spirit to feed me that, but now I realize that I'm His vessel to fill as He sees fit ... You said:(((There was a purpose for me to come to this site and it was to learn about reformation and the history of Christianity- which I did not know much about. )))Amen to this ... same thing with me! ... There is a reason why the Spirit is feeding us this information ... And you may find, as I so often do, that given the divinely timed intervals between Holy Ghost inspired meal courses, you'll find some other tasty morsel on that plate that was completely overlooked ... Even if it's as simple as a small piece of buttered roll in the last of the gravy ... You said: ((( I believe there are some others on here that are in the same boat. We can listen and read the same type of message over and over and , yes, it confirms what we believe- for the hundredth time-but there is a time to move on, to move up and to be fed more meat.)))So true, but only if it's our Lord is saying, "Move on, move up and be fed more meat" ... The mere fact that you've asked the question to the forum "Where do I go from here" say's to me that you've not heard from our Lord ... So may I humbly suggest that you do what I had to do, and now still remember to do when (I) gets into it, and that's ask Him, "Lord, where do you want me to go from here" ... You said:(((All of these wonderful sermons and preachers and books are great- we need them for growing christians who are at these different levels. But once you are at that level and have been satisfied- you can't stay there unless you want to stay stagnant.)))Now heres the key word "satisfied" ... You sign your post often, "Satisfied in Him alone", but in this particular post you don't seen so ...Again, I believe our Lord is using me to relate my experience of dissatisfaction ... I'm much more satisfied, and content in Him now because I really realize that I'm in His timing, and not vise-versa ... He's the buyer, I'm the buyee ... You said: (((I don't now if I am making much sense here. It is hard to put into words. I also don't want to pretend that i have 'arrived' at any such high level and don't need anything. I am very needy! I need the Lord more and more and I can't get my fill.)))I don't know any better way to put this my dear sister, but maybe at this point you should try to stop gobbling Him up, and let Him feed you ... Gobbling causes stomach cramps, indigestion and acid reflux, even in the spiritual sense ... As you said, "I am very needy! I need the Lord more and more and I can't get my fill" ... He knows what you need, and none of us will ever get our "fill" if we don't allow Him to dictate our spiritual meals ... It's ruffage (reproof) and protien (strength doctrine) that are filling ... You said: )))(((It is very true about the different levels or progressions of knowing the truthThey are:.I Hungry For TruthII. Seeking For TruthIII. Choosing The TruthIV. Accepting The TruthV. Knowing The TruthVI. Believing The TruthVII. Living The Truth )))I guess I am at the point of living the truth- which is why I talk and preach and exhort people to 'LIVE IT OUT'. Don't just talk about it, complain about it, search for more confirmation about it...Live it.There are so many thoughts running through my mind right now. So much to say, yet I don't know how to put into words thse things I feel and know. This is the biggest thing that keeps coming to me: There is a difference between bringing a message of truth and BEING a message of truth. When we learn or discover truth- we want to tell everyone. Yet, we still need to become- as a person, that message. When we learn this new truth (not new but new to us) we have to learn to live this truth in our own lives. Then with our lives - it becomes the message. )))The Spirit has just said to me that there's one missing here, and that's "Resting in The Truth" ... What's the use of being a Christian if we're gonna continue to be "burdened, and heavily laden", only this time with spiritual concerns ... If our Lord has granted you the grace, mercy and strength to be His "message" then you should be "resting" in that happiness! ... You should be at peace in His peace! ... Nothing grabs anyones attention in this satanically stressed out world than a child of the King "resting in Christ' truth" ... That is my silent witness in the office I work in, whenever someone is really stressed they come to me, and I get to be the Spirit of Peace' implement of witness to them of the peace of Christ ... So Sis Chanin if you're living His truth, and have become His message, then surrender to His rest ... Amen ... You said: (((But i know there is more- I know the Lord will reach down into the bottom of the barrel and find more and more to refine. )))Amen ... The Lord will reach down into your barrel, not our reaching down in there for Him ... Our duty is to ask Him to refine, and then surrender to what He shows us to get ris of ... As you already know, to our dying day there will always be something else ... Not until we get to glory will that process cease ... You said: (((I will not be silent, but I will not come with a "Thus sayeth the Lord". I will educate, I will be a mouthpiece, I will edify, I will encourage and exhort- but I see that it pierces the heart when it is done the right way- in love, in humbleness, and in tears too. )))Ahhhhp! ... There goes those (I's) again ... '0) ... Take it from someone who knows, we have no idea how our Lord will use us ... I've learned the hard way that it has nothing to do with (I will) but (He will) ... As you always say, "We must decrease, He must increase... You said: (((I see in my former zeal that I drove many people away because I thought I was supposed to be a 'prophet". No one listened to what I had to say.))) Ha! ... Ha! ... That's what prophets do! ... Just some humor ... You said:(((But as I grew in love for people and in the fruits of the spirit, I learned how to be the message and bring the message in a different light. Just me giving my Dad the Revival Hymn and the "Surrender" book did much more work in his heart than what I had been trying to say to him for two years. I find that God works in His own ways.)))Amen again ... Now continue to grow and rest in that, "God works in His own ways" ... We bring a lot of unnecessary turmoil on ourselves when we attempt to work His ways for Him ... Also I have found that when I'm feeling dissatisfied with a situation, my life, waiting on our Lord to answer where do you want me to go from here? ... Whatever ... I now understand that that's my time to praise Him, honor Him, worship Him, adore Him, and to take time to look around at all that's wonderful He's given me ... and just to Thank Him! ... Thank Him! ... Thank Him! ... Why the fact that I have three grown daughters and 8 grands, all healthy, whole and saved is enough to keep me in praise between the dry spells Sis Chanin I've been to your website, you've got so much to be praising our Lord for, a good husband, beautiful children, your Kentucky home, and you're saved! ... So why not rephrase your question to, "Lord where will you have me go from here"? ... But in the mean time while you're waiting for His answer stay here on SI and keep letting Him continue to use you to bless us, for you are a blessing ... Amen! PS - And no I'd never mind your using anything we've communicated on regarding our Lord.

I hope this was not too confusing or harsh sounding. If I were to keep listening and wanting to discuss , maybe, Wilkerson's sermons, I would be doing exactly what I was doing almost 2 years ago. It's a waste of time for me now. not for someone else that needs to hear them- not at all! But we have to be aware of what season we are in. If we are ready to move on- then we need to pick up our feet and move on.I sure don't get tired of listening to this man preach, the Lord has washed my heart many times through Mr. Wilkerson's ministry. He continually brings a new message from the throne room, I don't hear the same things over and over again.One of the greatest hinderances to learning and to Bible study is to say, "I already know that". The Lord can speak many new things to our hearts if we just come expecting to hear from Him every time.In Christ,Ron

Hi ChaninFrustration is usually a call to prayer. My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him. He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved. In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God. Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Selah. (Psa 62:5-8 KJV)

Ron,yes, prayer is what I should have done. :)Rahman,"living it" to me is resting in it :)I do want to apologize to anyone I might have offended by this post. Though the message of it has weighed heavy on me - so have the consequences. Maybe the spirit of it was not as it should have been. Though I know much of it is truth, many times it is not worth the risk of offending. I probably should have held my tongue and waited until other times to find more appropriate ways of getting this information out (such as the A.B. Simpson article).Maybe I did not offend and if I didn't, that's ok too. But the Holy spirit will not let me rest until I have done what I know is right- which is to apologize for the spirit in which I wrote the post.May He increase, as i decrease. -chanin

Just finished reading the first post. I like Ron's(InTheLight) response. God's desire is to reveal himself to us, "at many times and in various ways" (Heb. 1:1).More importantly, He speaks to us through our dear brothers and sisters--not just the "big name" speakers but all of them--the question is whether we pay attention to Him.The Spirit can touch the core of our being even through a four-year-old little kid's simple prayer, as I have recently experienced. My problem is to learn to listen attentively and to expect God's speaking at all times through different means and people.

Chanin,I didn't find the post the least bit offensive, though somewhat surprising.If God's making us grow, we'll inevitably "outgrow" certain sources of nourishment and knowledge (as per the milk and solid food of the Word). We should always take careful consideration and examine whether we really have outgrown such and such, or if it's something else (there's obvious danger in presuming to have gone past something, Satan no doubt tries to get us think we have when we haven't).Personally I've gone through a few phases where I've gotten more or less all I can out of a given teacher or group of people (in terms of good examples to seek to emulate), but it's been important for me to not be self-centered, and to be sure to give as much as God gives me to those groups whether or not they're helping me grow as much as I was in the past.Let us seek God, the true source of all good and perfect things, and obey Him regarding the means of grace He desires us to make use of, in the way He desires, for the time He desires. Let us be just as eager to be used by Him as minor means of grace, regardless of what it'll do for us (though undoubtedly He works on and in us as He works through us).It's very sweet and light-shedding, the concept of total obedience. Deeds, words, thoughts, attitudes, methods, timings, demeanors, personality, all of it should be determined solely by what is most pleasing to God. Let us never cease to listen to what God wants of us, in anything.