"Wow, Mommy, God is mean!"

My assistant told me the other day, that as she was reading the story of Adam and Eve to her little boy, he proclaimed, "Wow, Mommy, God is mean!"
so she quickly told him that Jesus loves Him and is always with him, and he doesn't need to be afraid of God.

What hit me was that it seems that is what we are doing now days in our churches....
Instead of telling the Truth behind Purposeful yet Loving Discipline of Almighty God; we are quick to pacify people with the assurance of His Love.

Please, do not misunderstand me...the realization of His Love, and Grace and His Mercy and Faithfulness is Oxygen to me...
However,
the opportunity for that child to hear the Truth in its fullness, was missed, when it was brushed over.

Sadly, I believe the Truth that sets us free, is being withheld today.

I will second that, AMEN

The Spirit of Truth has been locked out of many
places, while fleshly desires and emotions take His place.

It is time for those who truely believe, to speak the truth and demand that the truth be spoken.

If we don't, who will?

In His Love
pastorfrin

I would be interested in hearing your response to the little boy's comment, supposing he were your little boy. Mind you we're probably talking about a 5 year old or so.

In Christ,

Ron

I would be interested in hearing your response to the little boy's comment, supposing he were your little boy. Mind you we're probably talking about a 5 year old or so.

I can recall of a similar situation where a four year old child had gone to stay with their grandmother for a while. This grandmother had allowed the child to watch bad cartoons and had given the child virtually what ever they wanted and never disciplined the child. When the child came back home to a structured and disciplined environment, the child decried to his father when they were disciplined (not even a spanking, just a boundary issue where the child was told, NO!), "You are MEAN, dad!"

As a small child I read and was told the story of Adam and Eve and never thought of God as 'mean'. I thought that Adam and Eve had been a 'bad boy' and 'bad girl' and were being punished. I viewed it totally as their fault. God was doing what He said He would do.

And I think this may be part of the issue in our times. I'm reminded of Solomon's words, [i]Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.[/i](Eccl. 8:11) Because God does not immediately punish every delinquency, men think he disregards evil acts; and therefore they are emboldened to sin on. So this longsuffering of God, which leadeth to repentance, is abused so as to lead to farther crimes! When men sin against the remedy of their salvation, how can they escape perdition? (Adam Clarke)

supposing he were your little boy.

Okay, I'll take you up on your question. Actually, I plan to present the Adam and Eve account next Sunday for the children's message - to accompany my sermon, which refers to the "dividing wall of hostility" from Eph. 2:16 . The point: We need to be restored to God, and he has made a way.

I think children can understand the concept of sin's consequences better than we realize - and they can see it portrayed in the Adam and Eve account.

Something like this:

Children's Meditation:

Have you ever done something you knew your mom or dad wouldn’t want you to do – let's say you take some money off your mom's dresser to buy some candy? The candy was, oh, so good. But later, what might happen between you and your mom? Would you feel distanced from her – not so close like before? Maybe you want to stay away from her and spend a lot of time in your room. Maybe you want to blame your sister. Would it seem like there was an invisible wall between you and your mom?

And then, later let's say, you go to her and admit you took the money, and you know it was wrong to do that. You might want to give her some money from your piggy bank. Then let's say she says, “Thank you for being honest and admitting your wrong. I forgive you!”

And then, how do you feel? Close again? Maybe you hug each other. And you can enjoy the love of your parents again. The invisible wall is gone.

There is a story in the Bible about an invisible wall. Adam and Eve, the first people God made, walked and talked with God in a beautiful garden. They were very close to God. It was wonderful.
Then they did something that God had told them not to do.

And do you know what happened after that? …… When God came to enjoy their company, like he had always done before, they ran away from him and hid behind some bushes. They didn’t want God to be close to them anymore because they knew they had done wrong. There was suddenly an invisible wall between them and God.

And since then there has been an invisible wall between people and God because all have done wrong and God is holy..... .

But there is good news! Many years later Jesus came to take that wall away, so we can be brought close to God again and to each other. .........

Hopefully that does not portray either a cruel God or a permissive God.

(the fact that God allowed Adam and Eve to live, to me, is totally amazing - his love, for sure!)

PS I use "Mom" because there are some single parent homes.

Diane

I think this may be part of the issue in our times

This is something to consider here. One possibility is that the young child's reaction isn't so much a theological protest as much as a sociolgical symptom. Even Christian children can be more shaped by the Disney Channel and Nickolodean then perhaps their parents care to admit. In contemporary children's culture, authority figures, such as parents and teachers, are depicted as lovable but hapless rubes who are usually two or three steps behind the clever and self-willed children. The thought that an authority figure would be more wise then a child is by itself an unfamiliar concept...let alone an authority figure who would hold their feet to the fire.

Just my thoughts,

MC

So true, Pastorfrin...as I heard quoted a couple of years ago by Randy Phillips of Phillips Craig and Dean. "Church is about God NOT about us"...
and
unfortunately that is what we see so much now...what's in it for us...how can "We" improve? and have a better life...

and by pushing the message to appease us, Truth is knocked out.

It IS up to us...when we have our confidence in God and our Hope in Christ and the Power of the Holy Spirit within us, we should not hesitate to speak the Truth in love and authority!

Ron:
Well, I have been there before... I raised four children...and I spoke to them about God thru out the day and interjected the Word to them into our entire life/activities...so they grew up knowing His Heart toward us in all that we do.

I would have said to this little boy (7 yrs old), just what I used to tell my children, and now my grandchildren:
"God is a loving God...and because He loves us so much He wants to protect us..."
I would explain about Good and Evil that is in the world...etc.

"God has set up boundaries, and guidelines, just as Mommy and Daddy have.
Do I let you run into the street, Michael?"
"no"
"Why do you suppose that is?"
"Cuz a car could smash me into the pavement" (something like that ~ hee hee)

"yes, I want to protect you from what is harmful and dangerous...God is the same way...yet He is so wise He knows what is harmful even more than we do...so He has guidelines....."

"But God sounds mean Mommy"
"Oh, Michael, how can it be mean when He is actually saving you from becoming hurt, or even lose your life?...
No, He is not mean, but He is serious about teaching us what is right and wrong, and must discipline and correct us in ways that will make us not ever feel comfortable doing the wrong thing again."

something to that effect....I would stress that discipline, punishment and correction, is an act of Love...NOT meanness or anger.

Wow, Mommy, God is mean!

I would be curious to know what the child actually heard that triggered this comment. Did he mis-hear something? I am asking because, from my understanding of children, they are eager for the guilty party to get a just consequence. They are obsessed with fairness.
I wonder if the mom asked him, ‘Son, what would you consider to be fair?”

Surely, the child would not have said, “Let them get away with it.”
If he did, I’d be a pretty concerned mom.

Or maybe the child did not understand the real implications of the sin. It wasn't simply about stealing an apple, after all. I wonder if the mother herself really understood this. If she didn't then how could she portray it to the child?

Diane

That is a terrific Meditation for children, Diane...well balanced!

And yes, as RobertW said, I agree too...when I heard the story of Adam and Eve I never thot of it as a mark against God...it was all Adam and Eve's doing.

I think that is why when my asst. said that, it jolted my attention.

There was nothing evil in wanting to know more or to have wisdom, the evil was disobeying God's word.

Just my thoughts…….

Diane

Good question Diane...I am going to ask her when I see her again...because that went thru my mind when she told me...

we were excruciatingly busy, and she told me that little scenerio as I was walking away and it hit me like a blow to my brain, because it seemed foreign to me... I have not heard that response before...

Immediately upon hearing that as I was leaving I thought..."That is why it is so difficult for many pastors to be straightforward to their congregations..they fear that the Truth of God's opposition and hatred of wrong doing, will make people think He is mean...

Therefore Truth is not proclaimed, and people walk around artificially cushioned...Lulled to sleep, deceived and in severely grave danger of spiritual death!

Excellent Point, Compliments!

...the evil was not the Tree, that was set there by God...but it was in disobeying God's Word. That brings it down to such simple understanding reality...why do we seem to miss that?

they fear that the Truth of God's opposition and hatred of wrong doing, will make people think He is mean...

How can we understand redemption if we don't understand sin?

Diane

RobertW...
sooo many times I have brot Eccl 8:11 before God and cried out for understanding to this...but in the end, each time I am assured that He is a Just God.

Compton wrote:
The thought that an authority figure would be more wise then a child is by itself an unfamiliar concept...let alone an authority figure who would hold their feet to the fire.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SO TRUE, COMPTON...
KIDS SHOWS TODAY ARE LOADED WITH DISRESPECT TOWARD PARENTS, TEACHERS, ALL AUTHORITY FIGURES....EVEN WHEN THEY TRY TO DISCIPLINE, THEY END UP LOOKING SPINELESS, AND YOU HEAR THE TV AUDIENCE ROAR WITH LAUGHTER...

I stand corrected...sin IS far more than "doing wrong"...
My mother talked about Sin straight out and I tell you, I feared disobeying her, and disobeying God...it definetly hit me square on.
The envisioning of suffering in a lake of fire made me take notice of what I was doing.

I also raised my children with a direct hit on the meaning of "sin" and God's No Compromise and hatred of it...
I have however, also balanced that teaching with God's Grace, Mercy and Love.
Balance is the key here...because unfortunately the extreme of the Sin and Hell caused me to see that if I did not behave perfectly, I was not accepted or loved.

I was totally convinced, until 14 years ago, that God did NOT love me...He was a God of love, for others, but not me. I can't explain how completely convinced I was.

On my own, I tried to hold up under pressure, and persecution, mistreatment etc...and after a couple of decades, I crumbled.

But in my heart I knew I loved Jesus...just felt horribly certain He did not love me.

Then one blessed evening, during worship, as tears rolled down my face He spoke Words of Life into my spirit, and I met Grace, for the first time. Never knew really in my heart, what Grace was til that moment. And I have been set free.

Now, what keeps me from potential sin, is my absolute Love for my God and my Savior...I don't want to sin, because I don't want to grieve the Holy Spirit.
It is not "hell" that I fear, it is sensing His Spirit's Presence fade in distinction ....

I obey Him and I serve Him, because He loved me before I ever loved Him, which causes me to love and adore Him, for His Faithfulness.
And I "revere" Him, for His Almightiness

That is why I say that balance in teaching is essential!

RobertW...sooo many times I have brot Eccl 8:11 before God and cried out for understanding to this...but in the end, each time I am assured that He is a Just God.

Truly it is the great challenge of Christian parenthood. Should I show mercy or should I not? When the child acts out should I swiftly bring discipline or should I be long suffering? There are few things that bring out the true heart and character of a person like showing mercy. I have seen it as a father and an administrator.

And I think the great fear is that we want to show mercy, but don't want the negative results of that mercy to manifest. There is a side of me that believes that young employees can be ruined by allowing them another chance when they miss work or are late or are loafing. Yet, this seems to me to be the Christlike thing to do- to be long-suffering. But in the attempt there is (at least for me) this nagging feeling that the person does not need mercy, they desperately need to be fired and shocked back into reality.

In the original post there was a view that God is 'MEAN'. I think fear of God being presented as 'mean' causes churches not to practice true church discipline. People are allowed to keep sinning in our midst and need to be confronted- but there is that constant desire to be longsuffering and merciful. It leaves me thinking that we need to stop worrying about God coming off as 'mean' when we follow the word or preach the word. We simply cannot allow the distorted view of love affect out responsibility to act when action needs to be taken.

But by no means am I there. I am forever embattled by testimonies of Christian dads that seemed to be able to rule their homes with an iron fist with the gentleness of a dove or a lamb. "I never saw my dad angry" was a testimony I recently read. That was the most amazing thing I ever heard in my life. I don't know of another man on earth that did not get angry sometimes and at some things. And then once dads are made 'nicey' 'nice' they get criticized because they can't control their teen aged sons or rebellious boys. It just seems to me that dads need to be dads and God needs to be God sometimes if they come off as 'mean' or not. Adam should heve been 'mean' to the serpent when he was trespassing in the Garden. To everything there is a season- and we need to know what time of year it is in our situation.

allowing them another chance when they miss work or are late or are loafing.

[OR]

they desperately need to be fired and shocked back into reality.

Are these the only two options:
1. placid permissiveness
2. the “big guns”?

Both, I feel are indications that the person in authority likely lacks authority and those under him know it. It reminds me of a teacher I knew who let kids get out of hand, and when it got real bad she stood on her desk and blew a whistle and screamed. The kids all knew how far they could push her.

What about authority portrayed in the calm caring police officer who can hand you a speeding ticket without the need to shout, get angry, or hand cuff you (to prove his authority).

Why do so many view God as having two switches: 1. placid “love” or 2. mean vengeance? Does God need to be angry to correct us? Or is that view a reflection of the parental style of using anger to intimidate the misbehaving child into obedience and in that way to assert ‘authority” (which is not authority at all)

Diane