Death penalty

This subject was brought up in conversation at work and one of my co-workers asked me which side of the fence do i sit as a christian. do i allow people to be judged by the law to death or do i opose it. I coundnt give an awnser because the only scripture examples for me at that time were the following.

1. when jesus was on the cross he had two people either side of him that were given the death penalty but jesus never intervened with their earthly punishment only their spiritual one.

2. Jesus intervenied for Mary magdaline an interesting factor in the judgement of mary magdaline is that she was caught in an adulturous affair which takes two people, Where was the partner of the accused?

were do we stand in this as spirit led christians?

The answer to the Death Penalty is beyond theology and sword fencing. It is not enough to form a priciple out of the silence of Christ. This is not only stupid, it is dangerous

The world is watching our "Christianity"!

Would Christ flick the switch on the Electric Chair?
Would the Son of God pull the lever at the gallows?
Would the Lamb of God push the sringe of poison into the vain?

Ask the poor, ask the unbelieving, ask those who are not theologicaly impaired!
The answer will be a resounding NO!

They are watching, they are waiting to see the body of Christ behave like the head!

The sory of the teenager murdered by the religious rigt wing only forces the Spirit of revival further away.

Thank you for that heartbreaking story. I am sure that that womand will sit closer to Christ in His Kingdom than those who stood on thier own "sound doctrines" to justify another murder.

Before He comes, please let us for one hour, bow our heads in shame.

It would be profitable for us all to cast aside our opinions and to let scripture speak on the matter.

Opinion can be based on emotions, feelings, instead of being founded upon the truth of God's word.

The 'death penalty' was God's idea.

Let's look at Genesis 9v5-6, 'Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning, from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of every man's brother I will require the life of man.

Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man'

Also, as we know, Exodus 20v13, 'You shall not murder'

In Romans 13v9, the command to not murder is repeated.

As I have read in an article concerning the death penalty it says, 'man did not invent the death penalty, so man has no right to abandon it.

Whether man abandon's it or not is not man's decision, but God's.

When, in scripture, did God abandon/revoke the death penalty?

In Acts 25v11, Paul says, 'For if I am an offender, or have committed anything deserving of death, I do not object to dying...'

Also, in 1 Samuel 15, King Saul is supposed to destroy the Amalekites, but spares Agag and some of the cattle.

It was up to the man of God, Samuel, to kill Agag, at God's command.

Saul was wrong to spare Agag, Samuel obeyed God by killing Agag.

We are very much like Agag, who said, 'Surely the bitterness of death' is past.

In God's eyes, it wasn't.

Remember, we all have to die anyhow, it is just a matter of whether we spend eternity in heaven or hell.

A murderer could go to heaven, as did Moses, and someone who has never murdered, could end up in hell, all names withheld.

God bless.

Also, we need to remember, this nation murders the innocent unborn daily, whilst feeding and clothing murderers.

Enid, thank you for your thoughtful response and many verses.

Pilgrim, you said,

Would Christ flick the switch on the Electric Chair? Would the Son of God pull the lever at the gallows? Would the Lamb of God push the syringe of poison into the vain?

I am concerned about an imbalance being represented in such a statement.

At the final judgment, is it not Christ who orders the eternal sentence upon unbelievers.

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

All judgment has been committed to Christ. Do not mistake the patience of Christ in this hour of calling with an unwillingness on his part to demonstrate wrath on all wickedness.

Christ is THE GOD who ordered the Old Testament executions and even the Canaan genocide. It was His Spirit that killed Ananias and Sapphira. And He does not change.

Grace in Christ is entirely conditional. One must be in Christ to lay claim to even enough grace to have one more breath.

God does not always exact His judgment immediately, such as when He spared David for murder, but unless God makes the exception known, does it not seem reasonable for the civil powers to follow the regular demonstration of God's wise laws?

Humm,
Strange how we choose to enforce the death penalty, why not follow all the commandments and put all those who break them, to death. After all, this is what the Lord God commanded. How many of us would then be left alive?

Exodus 21:12
He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

Exodus 21:15-17
And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
[16] And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
[17] And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 21:29
But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.

Exodus 22:19
Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 31:14-15
Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. [15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 35:2
Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

Leviticus 19:20
And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.

Leviticus 20:2
Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

Leviticus 20:9-13
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
[10] And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. [11] And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. [12] And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them. [13] If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:15-16
And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast. [16] And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:27
A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 24:16-17
And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.
[17] And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus 24:21
And he that killeth a beast, he shall restore it: and he that killeth a man, he shall be put to death.

Leviticus 27:29
None devoted, which shall be devoted of men, shall be redeemed; but shall surely be put to death.

Numbers 1:51
And when the tabernacle setteth forward, the Levites shall take it down: and when the tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

Numbers 3:10
And thou shalt appoint Aaron and his sons, and they shall wait on their priest's office: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

Numbers 3:38
But those that encamp before the tabernacle toward the east, even before the tabernacle of the congregation eastward, shall be Moses, and Aaron and his sons, keeping the charge of the sanctuary for the charge of the children of Israel; and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

Numbers 15:35
And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

Numbers 18:7
Therefore thou and thy sons with thee shall keep your priest's office for every thing of the altar, and within the vail; and ye shall serve: I have given your priest's office unto you as a service of gift: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

Numbers 35:16-18
And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. [17] And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. [18] Or if he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.

Numbers 35:21
Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote him shall surely be put to death; for he is a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him.

Numbers 35:30-31
Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die. [31] Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.

Deut. 13:5
And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

Deut. 17:6
At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Deut. 21:22
And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:

Deut. 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Joshua 1:18
Whosoever he be that doth rebel against thy commandment, and will not hearken unto thy words in all that thou commandest him, he shall be put to death: only be strong and of a good courage.

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

bro Frin you said:

Strange how we choose to enforce the death penalty, why not follow all the commandments and put all those who break them, to death. After all, this is what the Lord God commanded. How many of us would then be left alive?

maybe not many, in the end though, the wages of sin is death both natural and eternal (hellfire)As far as God is concerned you take a life, you lose yours at some point. i have no problem with the death penalty as long as it is excercised within the confines of the laws of the land. if anyone Christian or not has an issue with it, they should take it up with their local representative and see about having the law changed.

bro frin you brought up a lot of instances in which death would be the punishment, the scripture doesn't contain many instances of people being guilty of some of those things. for example, we don't hear of people committing beastiality, perhaps because death was the punishment for it. That death was the penalty for these things you mentioned, for example the things of the temple that only the Levites should handle them speaks of how serious God was about His things and that they be kept Holy unto Him according to His plan. There weren't any instances i can think of in which a foreigner ever served in the Temple of God now were they?

even if these laws are violated and the perpetrator isn't put to death by the people, God will so do at the end of that person's life. We tend not to think of death in those terms, as in the wages of sin is death.

you may not like the idea of the death penalty and if so, get with your local rep and others who feel that way and see about getting that law repealed. for me the death penalty is a reminder of what awaits the sinner who doesnt repent, except this death is eternal and there is nobody on that death row who is there by mistake...

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

IRONMAN,

I simply asked a question and this is more of an accusation than an answer, but I will answer yours from the scripture I posted.

bro frin you brought up a lot of instances in which death would be the punishment, the scripture doesn't contain many instances of people being guilty of some of those things. for example, we don't hear of people committing beastiality, perhaps because death was the punishment for it. That death was the penalty for these things you mentioned, for example the things of the temple that only the Levites should handle them speaks of how serious God was about His things and that they be kept Holy unto Him according to His plan. There weren't any instances i can think of in which a foreigner ever served in the Temple of God now were they?

Seems you must have missed these:

Leviticus 20:9-13
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
[10] And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. [11] And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. [12] And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them. [13] If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

It may have worked for bestiality (which is much more common than you may believe) but it is very evident it failed for the sins listed above.

Anyone who is without sin, have some rocks?

bro Frin
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

i wasn't accusing you of anything, i was trying to best answer your question as i could. i didn't mean at all to come off as accusing you of anything and i apologize.it seems to me that the threat of death (like you said) worked against beastiality, a few people might have been killed over that and that put people on notice.i wasn't talking about beastiality in our time but in those days.i am not so naive as to believe there is no beastiality going on though, i like you believe it does go on.also there are no instances of foreigners ever entering the temple except in a situation in which Israel was Judged, so the Israelites took that seriously enough to keep foreigners out...even when Judgment was upon them.now the matter of the temple being defiled and the worship of idols being institued is a different thing than having a foreigner serve the True God as the Levites did which is why i said there is no instance of foreigners serving God in the temple as the Levites did. i didn't go down the whole list you mentioned, i just touched on the a few. however you did bring up the ones which seem not to have worked for us, at least in this day such as adultery, homosexuality and so on. perhaps death would be a deterrent but it isn't likely that such things would be criminalized now to warrant such a punishment. i don't think that the threat of death itself has failed us concerning the above sins but probably the execution of the punishment. if death was given out for instances of adultery, more people would probably think twice about it. a law is as good as the degree to which it is enforced, if it isn't, then it keeps getting broken. i think after a time God's people grew lax and in some cases misused the law and it stopped having the desired effect. anyhow at the end of the day, God executes Judgment in death.

and like i said, you may not like the idea of the death penalty (and some people don't and these are the ones i was adressing directly so that statement applies if you don't like the idea if not don't worry about it) and this isn't a slight or anything like that but i am taking into consideration that others may not feel as i do on this and i have no issue with that. for those who don't like the law, there are ways to work to get it changed and those means should be used to that end.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

Brother Ironman,

Not a problem brother, forgive me for being over sensitive. I guess my whole point is we could kill all who have sinned and then who would kill us, and then we seem to be very selective on the sins we choose to punish in such severity. Is that because so many are guilty and thus there is a lack of those able to throw the stones?
Yes in the end the Lord Jesus Christ will judge and His will be just. In the meantime I will trust the Lord's way of destroying the works of the devil.

1 John 3:7-9 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. [8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Romans 13 does apply with punishment as well as with war, but I, (and of course this is my take on scripture), believe Christians should not take part in it.

In His Love
pastorfrin

bro Frin
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

perhaps our slackness in enforcing law maybe to protect ourselves as we may well be guilty and thus subject to the punishment! all the same God would surely give us the recompense for our iniquity if we don't repent!

as for Christians in war, i would say let each man follow whatever God has decreed and find this out in prayer. Some are to bear the sword and others not according to what God desires. you believe fervently that you ought not take part in it and that's fine and i don't doubt that is God putting you where He wants you to be regarding that matter.

i had wanted to be a naval aviator at one time but God evidently had other plans and that never materialized. i don't see myself in the military unless God has it in mind and hasn't revealed it to me as yet.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

Brethren, what you think of this testimony, could we get something from it, in the light of this subject:

[url=http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=6cfc29378e24829cddba&page=&viewtype=&category=]
Son of Sam/Son of hope - Part 1[/url]
[url=http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=197d28aaf795711fc8f6&page=&viewtype=&category=]Son of Sam/Son of hope - Part 2[/url]
[url=http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=cd1adab3a44996fd6b97&page=&viewtype=&category=]Son of Sam/Son of hope - Part 3[/url]

His site: www.forgivenforlife.com/

Thank you for you patience.
Please let me reply.

Those who claim to be: "concerned about an imbalance being represented in my statement." Could it be that you are more concerned for doctrine than Christ himself. This is a very emotive debate and one that we should not seek to be merely doctrinal correct.

It is conceded that Christ is the God of all Judgement, and that he will destroy the wicked.
It is conceded that He is the Law giver!

But the question of life is not a book of facts, figures or doctrines.
What does the law represent?
What do the great doctrines of the scriptures represent?
Are they not there as reveltions regarding the nature of Christ?
And was the revelation of Christ complete in the Old Testament?
When Phillip asked to see the Father, Christ said "Don't you know me Philip"

He is saying to Philip, all you need to know about God, the way He behaves, the way He ministers, the way He loves is seen, and can only be known in Me.

The ideals regarding the death penalty can only be understood in light of the MAN CHRIST JESUS, because we on both sides of the argument can offer conclusive "prooftexts" to enforce our own religious stands. However, the new creastion is compelled to think in light of this man from Nazareth, the one who preached hell to the religious hypocite and mercy to those still bearing the scent of thier sin.

Please let us examine all "truths" in the simple light of what we know to be true in our great God and Savior.

If a condemed and guilt man is to die at the hands of the state, then let him die. However, let the hand that brings death, not be the hand of Christ in His body.

Greater Love Hath No Man.....you know the rest.

The Pilgrim

Dear Crusader,

All passges in the OT refer to theocratic Israel and cannot quite be applied to gentile governments.
In Ro 13:4 says
4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

This passage acknowledges the right of the pagan and idolatrous Roman Empire to execute judgement including capital punishmentas God's servant or proxy.

I believe that this is true for today and is extended to all governments, regardless to what degree they are opposed to God's will.

narrowpath

I saw this thread, and I had a couple of thoughts about it.

1. God says that He has set up the governments.

That does not excuse a nation, or say that God ordains every law, but it is just a thought.

2. I have never been completely for or against the death penalty.

While it is the responsibility of the government to intervene, whether they are Christian or not, I have wondered what the government should do should it become a Christian government.

3. Lastly, I'm from Texas, where we execute the most people.

I believe that the punishment should fit the crime.

If you steal, you should pay for what you stole.

If you kill, how is it justice to let you live?

This may sound a bit strange, but if my state would institute public whippings, or floggings for crime, then perhaps I would lean less towards a death penalty, and more towards that type of penalty and imprisonment.
------------------------------------------------------

We must remember that God himself has judged people with death in the new testament for lying.

Ben Williams wrote:

I believe that the punishment should fit the crime.

If you steal, you should pay for what you stole.

If you kill, how is it justice to let you live?

Ben, life does not exist because of what you believe. Life does not exist because of what you do. Life is the gift of God. This subject is not about what we believe or what we would do.
The crux of the matter is this. Should a Born Again Christian minister the death penalty? Could you by proxy execute a person for thier crime against God?

Think about it? What would Jesus say to the thief today? What would He say to the Murderer? What would He say to the Adulterer?
What would He say to you?

Where would our theology be if Saul of Tarsus had got his just deserts?

Where would we be if we recieved our true deserts in this life.

Please detach this subject from final judgement. This is about the ministration of Christ in this earth. The only testimony they will have of Him today is what they get from His body. How sick we are when men can claim to be for the penalty of death and still claim knowlege of Christ.

What happens in the Texas jailhouse is no different to what happened out in the field in Genesis 4.

I hope that God will teach me the meaning mercy.
And if He does, this I know, that others will benefit from what God has done in my undeserving heart.

God bless us all

The Pilgrim

Krispy said:
God has ordained governmental authority to carry out justice. Yes, it has been abused, and still is today. Yet that doesnt change the fact that it is the way God Himself set things up. Dont like it? Sue God.

Personally... I believe in the death penalty for child molesters/rapists. Thats a step further than most pro death penalty people go.

Well Krispy, it seem s you are more interested in veangance that mercy.

He does not ordain Government, he allows them to exist.
Christ said His Kingdom was not of this world!

You believe in death penaly for certain crimes. God say that all sin brings death.

Again, what you are doing, sheep and goats, is confusing the Last Judgement with the actual work and nature of Christ in this world today. His work is to minister mercy...for all men.

What did that Angel say: Peace and GOODWILL to ALL men.

Hey why stop at molesters and murderers? Why dont we fry bigots too.

Sue God...I don't think so!

What is it that defines Christians...Oh yes...They Will KNow You Are My Disciples For The Love You Have...One For Another.

Hey! Wasn't that a commandement or something he gave us.

Please read the early post reagrding that young girls murdered by your goverment...and has that death made us more..or less like Christ.

Krispy...time to brake those strongholds.

The Pilgrimm