Biblical Unitarianism

--There is one God.

Mark 28-30
One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?"
Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.

--Only God is to be worshiped and served.

Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.'

--Jesus is the Son of God, the King of Israel.

John 1:49
Nathanael answered and said to Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!"

--Jesus is a human man in every way. He has no "God-nature".

2 John 7
Many false teachers are in the world now who do not confess that Jesus Christ came to earth as a human.

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Acts 2:22
Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

--Jesus had a beginning - He was begotten.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

--Jesus did not exist before He was born any more than Jeremiah did.

Jeremiah 1:4
[God speaking of Jeremiah:]
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;
Before you were born I sanctified you;
I ordained you a prophet to the nations.

--God's Holy Spirit is not separate from God anymore than a man's spirit is separate from a man.

1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

--Dead men are not conscience. They are truly dead.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die;
But the dead know nothing

Psalm 88:10-12
Will You work wonders for the dead?
Shall the dead arise and praise You? Selah
Shall Your lovingkindness be declared in the grave?
Or Your faithfulness in the place of destruction?
Shall Your wonders be known in the dark?
And Your righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

Psalm 115:17
The dead do not praise the LORD,
Nor any who go down into silence.

--The wicked will be destroyed, not subject to eternal conscience torment (many of the "proof texts" of an eternal conscience hell are biased mistranslations).

Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Revelation 20:15
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

-------

I made this short statement of belief. To see some that are made by others and are more comprehensive (I agree 99% with them (edit: more like 90-98)):

The Racovian Catechism
Allon Maxwell: I believe

My beliefs match up closely with Biblical Unitarianism, not to be confused with Universal or Rational Unitarianism. The later is probably the only kind of Unitarianism you have heard of.

The following is the best summary on the trinity I have found. It is excellent.

Understanding: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

Here are more resources to look at, with many many articles (I do not agree with everything on these sites):

Jesus The Messiah and His Kingdom
Biblical Unitarianism
Bible Digest
Housemail

Remember: it's not about who can explain a passage, it's about which explanation is most coherent with all biblical revelation.

Once again, please read this short book:
Understanding: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

God bless in your search for truth,
Matt

Edit:
Here is one more link, with a massive scripture index. The site is somewhat bogus, but please see what it says about supposed trinity proof texts:

[url=http://godandson.reslight.net/]Jesus and His God[/url]

THE lord our God is one! Like moses said'hear o Israel! the Lord our God is One'

Jesus was one hundred percent man till He was anointed by the holy spirit-the spirit of God.
It is this Spirit(Spirit of Christ),that has been existing before the foundation of the world.

We all are gods under the one true God.For He says in Psalm 82 'I have said ye are gods'Jesus Himself testified to this verse when He said in John 'if He called them gods to whom the word of God came, what do you say of Him who the Father has sanctified and sent into the world?'

Nile, this is certainly an unorthodox stance you're taking on the forum... it seems like more and more people are making claims such as these lately.

Every great heresy, whether in the first century AD or in the last century has started with one fundemental claim... that Jesus was not God.

The attack on Jesus' divinity is always the first step towards becoming a heretic or a cult!

Whether it was the Gnostics in the early church, or the JWs, Mormons, Universalists of today... they all attack the divinity of Christ.

The most significant difference between the Jesus preached by Mormons and Muslims and Orthodox Christians is the divinity of Christ. Muslims reject the Divinity of Jesus Christ and claim that while he performed miracles he was just another man. Mormons claim that Jesus was just like us once.

This is VERY dangerous territory. Please take notice of this warning.

Nile,

Do you believe anything that would be considered "orthodox?"

Jhn 17:5 \t And now, O Father, [b]glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee [u]before the world was.[/u][/b]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=7893&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]godhead[/url]

That is a thread you may want to look over.

Do you believe anything that would be considered "orthodox?"

I don't know, I would have to look and see.

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

A good verse for sure. What is your point though? I wouldn't believe what I do if I didn't have a good explanation consistent with all of scripture for such a well known verse.

---

Suppose...

The Bible has two verses that are tricky and seem to say that the sky is red. Now, they could be interpret to mean the sky is blue also.

Then there are 1000 verses that clearly say the sky is blue.

What do we do? Do we create a contradiction and say the sky is both blue and red at the same time? Or do we interpret the scripture in a way that makes the most sense in light of all scripture?

Who can tell me how many times Jesus is called "God the Son"?

Who can tell me how many times Jesus is called "God"? In addition to Jesus, how many other people in the Bible are called "God"?

For those who cry heresy: where am I commanded to believe that Jesus is God?

Matt

Hi Nile...

Here are a few verses to consider before aligning yourself with any sort of "unitarian" view:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."
- John 1:1-5
[b]Jesus is God and created all things.[/b]

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That [b]at the name of Jesus every knee should bow[/b], of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
- Philippians 2:5-11
[b]Jesus is the very nature of God.[/b]

"And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God."
- Revelation 22:8-9
[b]We don't even bow at the feet of an angel; we only bow and worship God![/b]

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
- Colossians 2:9
[b]Jesus Christ is the form of God in "body" (the flesh).[/b]

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."
- Titus 2:13-14
[b]Jesus is both God and our Savior, who gave Himself for us.[/b]

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
- I Timothy 3:16
[b]Jesus was "God manifest in the flesh."[/b]

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
- Hebrews 1:8
[b]The Son is God.[/b]

"In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts."
- Isaiah 6:1-5
[b]Who did Isaiah see? He saw the LORD (capital letters, referencing the Divine Name of God). But "no man can see God and live [Exodus 33:20]. So who did Isaiah see? Isaiah continues...[/b]

"Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me."
- Isaiah 6:8
[b]The lower case "Lord" often refers to the Messiah in the Old Testament (Matthew 22:41-44).[/b]

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
- I John 5:20
[b]Even the modern texts refer to Jesus as the "true God." [/b]

"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
- Revelation 1:17-18
[b]...in conjunction with...[/b]
"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
- Isaiah 44:6
[b]This is speaking of Christ, the King of Israel.[/b]

"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."
- Isaiah 43:11
[b]Yet Christ is our Savior! (Titus 2:10-13; Titus 3:4; Luke 2:11; John 4:42; [/b]

"There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
- Luke 16:19-31
[b]Hell exists for the wicked after death.[/b]

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
- Revelation 20:12-15
[b]Judgment Day preceeds punishment.[/b]

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
- Revelation 21:7-8
[b]How long does "the second death" last?[/b]
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."
- Matthew 25:41
[b]It is "everlasting."[/b]

Interestingly, Keith Green had a difficult time with the concept of the deity of Christ at the beginning of his faith. Have you ever read his biography, "[i]No Compromise]/i]?" It is a great book!

:-)

Hey ccchhhrrriiisss, thanks for your reply!

Those are a lot of good verses - all of the ones I thought of when I set out to research non-trinitarianism! I can say that I have researched them all to my hearts desire and am convinced the trinity is not taught in one verse of the Bible. Doing some quick math, I have spent over 60 hours researching this. Enough time to look at 60 passages an hour each. I would encourage you to look at the links I gave at the first post and see what the non-trinitarian explanations of these verses are.

I just...I want to respond to all of your arguments, because they are good and valid, and I have read all of them and have perfect answers! Did you know that Moses was called Elohim? Did you know that David was worshiped with YWHW in the same sentence? Did you know that Elohim is indeed plural, but that the usage of the plural to describe singular is a literary device used elsewhere in scripture? Did you know that God did not speak out of the burning bush...but that an angel did, speaking for God? Did you realize that the Wisdom of Proverbs 8 is the same thing as the Word of John 1:1? Did you know that "logos" is not capitalized in the greek, and is used throughout the NT and never considered to be a person? Did you realize that until the KJV, the "He" of John 1:1-3 was always "it" (even in the Geneva Bible)?

Did you know that...I'll go through some of them.

We don't even bow at the feet of an angel; we only bow and worship God!

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
- Colossians 2:9
Jesus Christ is the form of God in "body" (the flesh).

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
- I Timothy 3:16
Jesus was "God manifest in the flesh."

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
- Hebrews 1:8
The Son is God.

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
- I John 5:20
Even the modern texts refer to Jesus as the "true God."

"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
- Revelation 1:17-18
...in conjunction with...
"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
- Isaiah 44:6
This is speaking of Christ, the King of Israel.

"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."
- Isaiah 43:11
Yet Christ is our Savior! (Titus 2:10-13; Titus 3:4; Luke 2:11; John 4:42;

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."
- Titus 2:13-14
Jesus is both God and our Savior, who gave Himself for us.

(parable)
- Luke 16:19-31
Hell exists for the wicked after death.

Judgment Day preceeds punishment.
...
How long does "the second death" last?
...
It is "everlasting."

Let me throw one more link out there. It's a somewhat bogus site, but with some good things I believe:

[url=http://godandson.reslight.net/]Jesus and His God[/url]

It has a massive scripture index. I suggest looking at some of these verses to what they say, then arguing against the interpretation.

Interestingly, Keith Green had a difficult time with the concept of the deity of Christ at the beginning of his faith. Have you ever read his biography, "[i]No Compromise]/i]?" It is a great book!

Matt

Nile, you need a balance of scripture and a balance of teachings.

If I listened to sixty hours of preaching on the need to observe Judaic law as a Christian I would probably come away convinced that I shouldn't eat pork... and there are some people like the Seventh Day Adventists who preach this kind of doctrine.

If I were to listen to sixty hours of sermons or read several books on Unitarianism I would probably come away with the wrong impression as well.

But if someone where to spend sixty hours in the Word of God they would realize that the full picture of the gospel is not quite so simple.

There are definitely verses that would lead one to believe that we must observe Jewish traditions, there are verses that would lead us to be believe in unitarian doctrines, and all sorts of other cults and unorthodox teachings... but in light of all of the scriptures these teachings will be shown ultimitaley to be false.

There are plenty of verses that support the teaching of the trinity, and there are plenty of verses that tell believers they can eat pork and don't need to become Jews.... you need to spend time in the Word and understand that you really don't understand anything about the nature of God.

iansmith,

Your post isn't that helpful to me.

Are you aware what the non-trinitarian arguments are?
If you could argue why the non-trinitarian system as a whole is wrong that would be helpful.

As it is, I have discussed this issue with ardent trinitarians and have spend much time in the word and prayer before coming to my conclusions.

Also, I want to mention that I didn't seek to prove the trinity wrong. I was presented with some arguments and wanted to see if they were true. I have no trouble understanding the trinity how the trinitarians explain it. It is not that I couldn't accept the doctrine, but it is that I do not believe it is Biblical.

Matt

You know, I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just stating the fact that your views are not orthodox. Despite the fact that you feel strongly about this issue, the majority of Christian witness (ie. orthodoxy) over the past two thousand years is in opposition of the conclusion you have come to.

As I was considering this, among Christians there are really only three camps that you could call home, Oriental Orthodox fellowships (ie. coptics) who believe in something similar to Unitarianism, Oneness Pentecostals and Unitarians. Really the only one of these groups that fits into Western Protestant Christianity is the Oneness Pentecostals... and they are very much on the fringes.

This forum for the most part tries to keep the narrow road of biblical orthodoxy. Since most of the members of this forum are Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Baptists, Anglicans, Methodists etc, I've just got to be honest, you're going to be on the outside with a Unitarian viewpoint.

I really don't know how you can expect any different response than the one that you've gotten. You wouldn't walk into a Presbyterian seminary and proclaim that you hate reformed doctrine. You wouldn't walk into a Assemblies of God's church and state that tongues are a deception of the devil. You shouldn't expect to get a positive response coming to a forum that is probably better than 90% Trinitarian and claim that there is no Trinity and come away without any bruises.

Jesus makes it clear in John 14 who he is and who is in him.
He is the one whom we believe in and the one who we must obey, and that God the father has put all authority in the hands of Jesus.
If this teaching of unitarianism poisons just one of God's little one's.??!!!
you have a millstone to look forward to.
Please stop.
Have a great day.

You know, I'm not trying to argue with you

I'm just stating the fact that your views are not orthodox. Despite the fact that you feel strongly about this issue, the majority of Christian witness (ie. orthodoxy) over the past two thousand years is in opposition of the conclusion you have come to.

I really don't know how you can expect any different response than the one that you've gotten. You wouldn't walk into a Presbyterian seminary and proclaim that you hate reformed doctrine. You wouldn't walk into a Assemblies of God's church and state that tongues are a deception of the devil. You shouldn't expect to get a positive response coming to a forum that is probably better than 90% Trinitarian and claim that there is no Trinity and come away without any bruises.

I have been a trinitarian my whole life except for the past two weeks. I believe this is the first (or second) post I've made on SI not believing in the trinity. This is not me just walking in and causing a ruckus. I've had discussion with many people here before and wish to have more discussions.

Matt

poet wrote:
Jesus makes it clear in John 14 who he is and who is in him.
He is the one whom we believe in and the one who we must obey, and that God the father has put all authority in the hands of Jesus.

He_Reigns,

Two weeks and a half weeks ago I first heard of non-trinitarianism. After a week (and enough reading to be a full-time job) I was convinced. I read articles and arguments till I had read everything I could think of and had looked at every verse I (or my friends) could think of. Since then, I have been the scripture only and am becoming convinced more each day that Jesus is the Son of God and not God the Son.

So you could say I stopped believing in the Deity of Christ about a week and a half ago.

Yes that is correct, I do not believe Jesus was Creator God come in the flesh.

The verses that talk about Jesus creating the world are referring to the messianic age. Look at Hebrews 1:2 and then Hebrews 2:5. John 1:3 isn't talking about Jesus, but the actual word of God, just like it says.
This is directly from the Geneva Bible:

1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.

Amazing isn't it? That the whole notion of the word in John 1:1-3 being Jesus just came about in the last 500 hundred years or so.

Thank you for the question.
Matt

Let me give a point of clarification:

Jesus is not God in the flesh, but He does represent God in the flesh. He is the perfect image of God.

Matt...reading your posts greatly saddens me. Here are some resources for you to check out:

[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/TheHistoryOfTheTrinity.pdf]History
of the Trinity[/url]

[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/TheIAMSayingsProveJesusToBeDivine.pdf]The "I AM" Saying of Jesus - written by a former Muslim (these convinced Him that God is a Trinity)[/url]

[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/Deity_of_Jesus.pdf]The Deity of Jesus by Walter Martin[/url]

Norman Geisler on the Trinity:
[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/Trinity1.pdf]Part 1[/url]
[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/Trinity2.pdf]Part 2[/url]
[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/Trinity3.pdf]Part 3[/url]
[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/Trinity4.pdf]Part 4[/url]
[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/Trinity5.pdf]Part 5[/url]

Matt, what do you do with the fact that ALL of the Early Church Fathers believed in the Trinity and in the Deity of Jesus. Many of these men were disciples of the apostles. Men like Polycarp, Papias, Ignatius and Clement of Rome. And then after them were men like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Hermas, Hippolytus, Tertullian, etc. They were Greek and read the Greek as a first language. Some of them heard from the Apostles directly and the others heard from those who heard from the Apostles. The Deity of Christ or the Trinity is NOT some new doctrine. It has been believed since the BEGINNING brother. You have all of history to fight against. Pardon me for being blunt, but you seem to be treating this as if it is a conspiracy theory or something. I pray that you seek and search this out more brother and that God will reveal the truth to you.

Also, check out this page: [url=http://www.answering-islam.org/Who/index.html]Who Is Jesus?[/url]
God Bless...

Annie, thank you for your concern.

I do not believe like the JWs that Jesus was "a" god or like the Mormons that Jesus was just like God. I know that both times God is used it is the same God. But I think that the "word" is the actual word of the God, or the plan or reason or wisdom of God. Look at proverbs 8.
Here is what I believe on John 1:
[url=http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/5257/Beginning.htm]In the Beginning was the Word[/url]

I will look at the Greek, but what should I look for?

Thank you with love,
Matt