I'm a somewhat disillusioned charismatic

It is with some hesitancy that I post this. It's been in me for a while now and the Revival Conference and its goals has caused me to start thinking about it again. From what I know about it, they are going to try and hear a word of clarity and purity. Perhaps a word of order for our lives and churches. I pray it will be so.

But I'm disillusioned I guess because so much of the rhetoric I have used all these years is not really a reality in so many churches. That's my opinion. Charismatics are as bound and fighting for freedom many times as much as any other believer in a mainline denominational church which "doesn't have the Holy Ghost like we do." There's much talk about victory and the overcoming life and it has all been done for you so just take it. Then next Sunday you may hear a word of just keep on keeping on because your breakthrough is near. Well, the week before I had been told in the sermon I had already arrived. There is kind of like a schizophrenic message of total victory and abundant life coupled with your breakthrough is near. Which one am I to believe? The altar calls are supposed to be where bondages are broke and great things happen and marriages are healed at the mere prayers of the visiting man of God but it ain't so most of the time. You get a little shot of encouragement but go home basically the same. Healings I believe are as hard to come by in a charismatic church as anywhere else. I'm talking from experience there and not just my opinion. People falling down (laying down in reality) after supposedly being slain in the Spirit is nothing more than an empty tradition at this point for me. If it isn't happening then why go on acting like it is? It doesn't even take a spiritual revelation to see it isn't really happening. All you have to do is watch to see they are laying down and not being acted on by the "power of God." It's easy for a unbeliever sitting in church to understand but churches I have been in go on acting like something of substance is actually happening. Many hands love to push and give you that little suggestion when they are praying for you. I saw a brand new charismatic evangelist on TV last night I had never seen before saying if you give me money you can get money. Lord above have mercy! A great day of miracles is coming and all that. I now realize that is just a Pentecostal tradition that has been passed down since the turn of last century. They were saying the same thing back then. Someone saved in 1903 was perhaps told the very same thing. I haven't seen any hospital wings emptied in these days. Revivals have sprung up that was supposed to include all that but what really has been going on?

Anyway, I'm sort of in between where I have been and am looking for where I am supposed to be. But the glory of the Lord is upon the charismatic church and soon the body of Christ will realize what we have and come to the brightness of our risng just isn't in my belief system anymore. I sure hope things like the Revival Conference can begin to fill what I see is a large need today. Reality and saneness is what we need a lot of I think. I pray especially for young believers and hope sincerely I am not stumbling any of them. But we have got to get what we talk about or quit talking about it until we get it. If God is going to do something extraordinary in the church during these days then I just wish I could get my bearings a little better. What's all this stuff that has gone on and where are we now?

Am I venting? Yes, but I also carry a grief in me this point.

FWIW. Sorry if I am out of line and I hope I don't appear foolish. If I wrote a book along the lines of Why I Left it would contain some of the things I have mentioned. And as the Lord always has it it, I need to tend to myself first. I realize that.

Blessings to you good folks,

"Doc"

Hi docs...

You're not "out of line" and you're not alone. This seems to have been a major point of many of Leonard Ravenhill's messages. He spent quite a bit of time preaching in certain Pentecostal churches (like the Assemblies of God), but his message was often lost to the hearer.

There is a danger is glamourizing a "revival." We've seen this in many of the modern supposed "moves" of God. Such "revivals" often become motivation rallies. While this isn't always a bad thing, it can distract many if it doesn't spur us toward seeking true intimacy with Christ.

Revival is never confined to a meeting place. God is not confined to Pensecola, Wales or even Canton. A revival, in my estimation, isn't a revival unless this newfound awakening doesn't follow us to every aspect of our lives. If a move of God does not firmly change us from the inside out, then why concern ourselves with the supposed outward "manifestations" of the Spirit? If a revival is confined to a particular fellowship instead of my prayer closet, they what is it good for?

David Wilkerson has a message on this website entitled "[i]A Christless Pentecost[/i]." It speaks to this issue in a powerful way. Wilkerson speaks of Christ walking "as a stranger in the aisles" of many charismatic churches.

You are in my prayers! I too am seeking such a move of God in my life. The greatest times that I have ever experienced were those lonely times of prayer in which I lay in an unrestricted intimacy with the Lord. I long to be so close to the Lord that I could hear his every heartbeat.

:-)

This bi-polar Christianity is very common in churches in Pentecostalism and also in churches of other mainline denominations.

It comes down to the most contentious couple of chapters in the bible, Romans 7-8. Many theologians say that these two chapters of the bible account for more disagreements on doctrine and contention between believers than any other set of scriptures in the bible.

They seem to present two different pictures... one of complete victory (sinless perfection) and one of gradual sanctification (perfection in baby steps).

You can read through Christian history and find that most theologians will either end up in one camp or others, while there are some teachers and theologians who can balance somewhere in between.

Most Pentecostals preach a sinless perfection, but live a gradual perfection. Methodists are also strongly traditionally sided with sinless perfection because of John Wesley's own teachings on the subject.

Baptists, Presbyterians, Anglicans etc. tend to preach a gradual sanctification... Most theologians would not discount the posibility of sinless perfection, but would claim that it isn't the normal Christian experience.

While sinless perfection is preached extensively, if we polled the church, even if we polled this forum and asked 'who believes in sinless perfection?' and 'who is living a sinlessly perfect life in victory?' we would probably see the same problem come up... many more people who claim to believe it than are actually living it.

So the question is, do we become jaded and contented to live in our sin? Since we can't overcome and live an overcoming life?! By no means! Apostle Paul answered similarly in his own question as to whether one should sin to increase the glory of God in forgiveness... we should stop sinning.

We need to be honest that sanctification, overcoming, victory, whatever we call it is a gradual, day-by-day, overcoming, fighting, battle, tooth-and-nail, relying on the Lord for grace, taking baby steps, learning to stop drinking spiritual milk and move to meat.

Those who rely on 'one time experiences' to change who they are, are living for a dream. God can give someone a new heart, but they must do their best to obey day by day... thats what it means to fear the Lord!

Good post Jeannette!

If we're born again according to the scriptures, then we are a child of God. Dont try to fit into a Charismatic or a Baptist mold... fit into a scripture mold.

krispy you hit it on the head with this statement, about 9 years ago, god smashed my christian foundations because of the filth that the main stream churches were getting into. This led me to study under preachers that have had there fruit tested and was found to be good such as A.W pink, tozer, wilkinson and many of the preachers that have sermons on this site. through listening and studying these preachers, i know what is real christianity and will not swollow the lie.

To the person who began this thread, I can only say "been there, done that" and left feeling the same way you do.
Tommy Tenney said that one can no more hold a revival than one can hold a hurricane. I think that is very certain and true.

If you are interested in an alternative, perhaps the following link may give you some understanding and some hope.

http://www.openchurch.com/user/The%20Concept.pdf

Blessings to you. You are being led by the Holy Spirit, I do believe. Just keep listening and rest in Him.

"0"

Hi Doc ...

You wrote;
"I'm a somewhat disillusioned charismatic" ...

[b]i once heard someone say that in order to become "disillusioned" one has to have been under an "illusion" in the first place ... :-? [/b]

i post this kinda tongue in cheek because as you may already know i too have been around Pentecostals for some 20+ years so i know of what you speak, and if proven under "illusion" in what i believe i heard our Lord say to me at the beginning of this year will be distancing myself from all former and attending what you call "a more mainstream denomination (Presbyterian) ... But in the meanwhile, like David praying for his baby, i'm still looking to God for the miracle of REVIVAL in the midst of my congregation ...

There's definitely something amiss (to me) all around tho because "learned behaviour" in the Christian spiritual arena is something that i see in every denomination, and i greatly appreciated Onesimus4God link about the beginnings of this horrible reality ...

Here's praying that our Lord will bring us ALL to a mutual re-adjustment (REVIVAL) to what He desires from we His Body ...

PS - Also want to note i saw your request of prayer for you from me, am doing, and would greatly appreciate you reciprocate as none of us can ever have too much prayer to and from :-D ---

Hello Doc,
I have been through the same disillusionment and I admit that I indeed lived under the illusion that perhaps some day a revival would randomly break out in our church and everybody would be tremendously blessed. We had years of Toronto style meetings and after that they died down 2-3 years ago they revived it again. Nobody was really changed, in fact many people left our church.
Nowadays I am no longer sure if actually half of them are saved or even filled with the Spirit. How can a fellowship supposedly filled with the Spirit of the living God not reflect God's glory visible to everyone around?

I agree with Andrew Strom that Revival is just simply bringing Christianity back into God's normality where nominal christians getting saved and filled with the Spirit.

I am still a Charismatic Christian. We now go to a Pentecostal fellowship, not because they are pentecostal, but because they are preaching the gospel in the church and on the street.
Disillusionment is good if it gets you out of a illusion, but prolonged disillusionment will inevitable lead to bitterness and sin.
I am glad that we found this lovely fellowship.
I am pleased to see my wife become on fire again and witnessing to other ladies.

narrowpath

--- What's up Doc (sorry could'nt resist it) :-P ---

narrowpath wrote;
"Disillusionment is good if it gets you out of a illusion, but prolonged disillusionment will inevitable lead to bitterness and sin."

---Amen ... The former is what i also believe in the vein of Romans 8:28, and of the latter i'm reminded of Simon in Acts 8 who was wrongly under the illusion that he could barter via his own carnal terms for things spiritually gifted of/from God ...

[b]Acts.8[/b]
[5] Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
[6] And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
[7] For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
[8] And there was great joy in that city.
[9] But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
[10] To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
[11] And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
[12] But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
[13] Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
[14] Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
[15] Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
[16] (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
[17] Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
[18] And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
[19] Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
[20] But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
[21] Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
[22] Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
[23] For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
[24] Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

i think that some of us, particularly associated with Pentecostalism, may be well meaning in our quests for "evidences" and "manifestations" of Holy Spirit in our midst, but may also be in possesion of a certain ignorance, or illusion, of how to recieve such from God ... i think that perhaps Pentecostalism may have been closer to it at it's beginning in it's promotion of holiness of living, continuous repentance, and tarrying on God, but have subsequently degraded to attempting to buy from God via our own carnal offerings for His "signs and wonders", instead of what He requires which is "a right heart in His sight" as i believe can only be regained and retained by a Joel chapters 1 & 2 formula of continuous repentance of our wickedness, and continuous prayer to Him in solemnity that He set us ALL aright and that our response to His rebuke and chastening would be much as Simon's was to Peter, "Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me" ... Or even more precise on our present behalf, "We pray You Lord, that all these wrong things we've since spoken, in our ignorance and well meaning, that you forgive us, and cleanse us from all the apparent harm and unrighteousness that our illusion has caused us" ...

What i'm seeing/hearing in my own Pentecostal surrounding is an increase in bitter murmurings and complaints of "disillusionment", in particular because the prosperity gospel especially in light of folks losing materially is proving that one can't "plant a seed of personal greed" via mammon and buy the things of God, such as His blessing and favor amongst other things, and the outcome has only one of two ways to go ... We will either wake up to our illusion in deep repentance, or it could lead to a sin of (great) falling away (my personal beliefs) ... As one sister in my fellowship said, "You know i used to think that people were leaving our church to go to others, now i think they're just leaving and staying home" ... In my own life i was told by a saint that i seemed to be having a crisis of faith, when it dawned on me no i'm having a crisis of church ... In reading Acts 8 there was something so viable going on in the laying on of hands and the imparting of Holy Spirit that it made Simon want to buy it, today concerning the laying on of hands "folks don't buy it" ...

Doc your timely appearance here on SI cames when i'm at a crux of where i believe our Lord is about to finally answer me as to whether i'm live (of His motivation), or memorex (of a selfish motivation), and if it's of the latter then i'll gladly be in repentance of apparently having been in some type of " gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity" prompting that i wasn't even aware of, and will be more than glad to have become free of it by His long-suffering mercy and grace ... If such be the case then a prophet i'm not, my life and will more in my control than i'd ever believed it to be, and my first excercising of it will be in distancing myself as far away as i can from all the "illusion" i've believed (personal and Pentecostal) in the past 20+ years, and a return to the basics only of Christ, Him crucified and risen, my salvation in Him, and all that "first love" and "first works" entails, a complete dumping of all i now call "spiritually extra-carricular activity" ... If it's God's will to take me thru the door of higher service which i believe He's showing me then fine, if not i'm seeing a far less stressful walk in terms of not believing myself called to being an irratant of church leadership and laity alike ...

However things go tho, your posts have made me search myself and disillusioned is not what i'm feeling about my Christian walk thus far ... What i'm feeling is a sense of finally coming to a clarity, a finally God is answering my prayers of the past 20+ years, that He's about to make it plain, and so honestly what i'm feeling here is "freedom" coming, as my spiritual dilema has not been in "weariness of well doing", but in "weariness of not knowing for sure" but doing things
because "i believe" it to be from/of Him ...

What's the scripture say?, "You shall know the thruth, and the truth shall make you free" ... i love it when God makes it plain! ... So whatever He shows us to be of error Doc, no matter how much we've believed it nor how long, accept it not as disillusion but as clarity, repent of it, thank Him for His grace, mercy, and guidance out of the snare, and get on to stepping in this race, all the while loving Him ever more ...

Blessings in He that is a rewarder of we that diligently seek Him, even when that reward is to be made aware of our errors of faith ---

Hi everyone,

Let me express my gratitude to those of you who have replied to my remarks about being disillusoned. My my, you mean there are other saints out there that can relate to what I said. Although it's a sad commentary in a way at least I am not by myself altogether. I posted with some trepidation wondering if I would just be seen as a nay sayer or however one would phrase it. I have read all of your replies and they have been a balm to me.

I don't think it's the revival emphasis by itself that I am speaking of. I guess one grows restless at times in any position or endeavor in life. But just slowly over a process of time I began to sense somehow that there was a lot more talk and rhetoric going on than the actual reality of what was being said in church. I stumbled onto a Christian discussion forum one night and began to share and question believers from other denominations or churches. I'm non-denominational. And I began to see how they viewed many things and it was eye opening in a way and I began to understand how I had not really understood some of these other communions even though I still didn't believe in various of their doctrines. I came to realize the charismatic world doen't have it all. But I've heard so much of "The anointing is here and if you come and get it now you'll never go home the same" and that kind of stuff. The hyper faith teaching, though not embraced by all charismatics, seems to be in the air just about everywhere telling us we are to be spiritual supermen in any and every situation. And there was this emphasis on revival going on that began to float about in the air also. Our pastor went to Toronto. Bob Jones came to our church a few times. Even Bob Jones said he had been to Toronto and didn't believe everything going on there was of God. My personal opinion is that many somewhat small charismatic churches have an inferiority complex of sorts because of ridicule they have experienced because of their assocation with the Pentecostal experience. And therefore, if a Toronto type revivial broke out in their church it would serve to validate them in the eyes of others that they were really a church that counted and who God was with. Then at about that time I knew I would be moving soon to another location and I got prayer one night from some people in the church for a problem. And for some reason, it was like I was standing outside the circle watching. Everyone prayed in almost the same way and used the exact same "charismatic" phrases and I went away not much moved. I soon moved and have taken some time away but my convictions regarding what I have seen have increased. It's kind of scary when you get to the point when you are bothered when someone says, "Well, by His stripes we are healed." I believe that but it is bantered about too easily. I won't go on like this every time I post. But I'm beginning to venture out now again and I've been to a few different churches. I'm not a spring chicken anymore and I came to the Lord during the Jesus Movement days. I'm ready to get on with finding what I was apprehended for. I also want the church at large to begin to apprehend that which it was apprehended for but we all want that. If you know who Art Katz was, he said that the present excesses etc. didn't happen overnight or because of nothing. He said many years of shallow and wrong emphasis had preceeded and prepared the way for many of the modern excesses. What can you say? It's possible I may end up in a charismatic or Pentecostal church but at least I pray I will have a clearer focus and vision. So many of you have mentioned going back to the basics and just being repentant and pursuing holiness. And becoming prayerful and witnessing. That's what I want. You couldn't have expressed it better. Some basic meat and potatoes will be just fine with me. Meanwhile, I'll never again in my life fall down or lay down just because a man of God prays for me. I haven't done it in a while and don't plan on resuming the practice. If I disrupt a service by not falling then it'll just have to be. And if ya'll know any rich saints who got that way following the prosperity gospel then let me know because I don't know any.

I'm sure keen to hear what some of those who attended this conference may have to share with us. And those people I mentioned who prayed for me in that circle. They are good people. I'm just describing my own process I've been in. And don't those young people coming to the Lord look just fine. Or any age. Hallelujah for that!

"Doc"

bubba wrote:

we are of no merit in and of ourselves, [i][b]as we are full of sin.[/[/b][/i] (Emphasis mine. )

Mind quoting me a reference to support this concept in the life of a Believer?

ginnyrose

docs, have you read any of kathern kohlman or benny hinns books on the annointing? Or any of smith wigglesworth?
....David

Docs,

You might want to read the book by Andrew Strom, 'Why I Left the Prophetic Movement.' I haven't read it, but Greg Gordon has been talking about it lately, it sounds like it's right up your alley.

Doc you wrote;
"My my, you mean there are other saints out there that can relate to what I said. Although it's a sad commentary in a way at least I am not by myself altogether. I posted with some trepidation wondering if I would just be seen as a nay sayer or however one would phrase it. I have read all of your replies and they have been a balm to me."

--- More than you know Doc, and yep it is a sad commentary, but if He's making you aware then is all the more reason to keep on bombarding heaven that He once again reset us to a more perfect place of His parameters in ridding us of all the evident errored excesses of motions (form) and going thru the commotions (fashions) that we've all become so accustomed to in whatever denom we're in ... i don't like error, especially in the Lord (church), and am therefore one to really like the truth especially in this all important spiritual arena, and pray constantly that God fix us - beginning with me ... The one thing that scares me to no end is to be in error in Christ, especially when that error could be of misleading to others ...

The thing about most SI'ers is that we already know something is rotten in our modern Christianity, which is why i believe Holy Spirit founded it and brings whom he wills to this "filling station" toward the seeking of REVIVAL ... It has beeen for me also in many ways a balm, but equally also a testing place of my faith in those areas of my walk i've come to call "extra-carricular" ... Bottom line tho regardless of which direction i'm about to go, i know it would have been impossible for me to move on without being brought here to SI Forum first ... He's prepared me here in ways that i'm sure won't become clear for years to come ---

Doc you wrote;
"I don't think it's the revival emphasis by itself that I am speaking of. I guess one grows restless at times in any position or endeavor in life. But just slowly over a process of time I began to sense somehow that there was a lot more talk and rhetoric going on than the actual reality of what was being said in church."

--- i wish in my circle there was even a hint of emphasis on REVIVAL - there is none at all, tho also in my setting there's a sense of spiritual restleness in an awakening to the same things you're awakend to, but instead of it coming out forthright, it's whispered in snide murmurings and gossips, and is often retorted by Bishop from the pulpit in like manner of piously returning evil for evil ... Something, one way or the other, is about to give ... i'm still standing in the gap tho believing God for His miracle of Holy Ghost cleansing REVIVAL in our midst ---

Doc you wrote;
"I stumbled onto a Christian discussion forum one night and began to share and question believers from other denominations or churches. I'm non-denominational. And I began to see how they viewed many things and it was eye opening in a way and I began to understand how I had not really understood some of these other communions even though I still didn't believe in various of their doctrines. I came to realize the charismatic world doen't have it all. "

---Doc i doubt very much your being a child of God who He obviously has His hand on in the pulling of the wool out from over your eyes that you "stumbled" there ... Amen, such surely seems that way to us, but if one believes He directs our steps i'm more prone to believing you were led, just as surely as i believe we we're led to SI ...

Amen, no one particular segment of the Body has it ALL, that's why Paul so strongly admonished that we need one another, and why i believe satan spends so much of his energy in keeping us denimonated via our carnal natures which are supposed to be crucified ---

Doc you wrote;
"But I've heard so much of "The anointing is here and if you come and get it now you'll never go home the same" and that kind of stuff. The hyper faith teaching, though not embraced by all charismatics, seems to be in the air just about everywhere telling us we are to be spiritual supermen in any and every situation."

---i like what Ravenhill said ... "Nobody has to announce a fire" ---

Doc you wrote;
"Then at about that time I knew I would be moving soon to another location and I got prayer one night from some people in the church for a problem. And for some reason, it was like I was standing outside the circle watching. Everyone prayed in almost the same way and used the exact same "charismatic" phrases and I went away not much moved. I soon moved and have taken some time away but my convictions regarding what I have seen have increased. It's kind of scary when you get to the point when you are bothered when someone says, "Well, by His stripes we are healed." I believe that but it is bantered about too easily. "

--- i know a few saints going thru the same process of observation, and at first they were afraid to even entertain such thoughts thinking they were just being judgmental (mostly from being told so by others), but when the observations persisted they too began to think they were having a crisis of faith, until i believe our Lord had me inform them that "no you're having a crisis of church" ...

In many churches/denoms as i said before i believe we initially meant well but have degraded into more of a "lip service" community of vain babblings, having a form of Godly devotion, but are far removed from The Power thereof ... In my circle when you ask a saint "How're you doing"?, they'll shoot back, "Blessed"! ... At which point i'll continue, "Really? ... praise God! ... How"? ... Man you talk about sputtering for an answer, and nine out of ten times the initial reasonings are always soulish in health and wealth ---

Doc you wrote;
"I won't go on like this every time I post. But I'm beginning to venture out now again and I've been to a few different churches. I'm not a spring chicken anymore and I came to the Lord during the Jesus Movement days. I'm ready to get on with finding what I was apprehended for. I also want the church at large to begin to apprehend that which it was apprehended for but we all want that. If you know who Art Katz was, he said that the present excesses etc. didn't happen overnight or because of nothing. He said many years of shallow and wrong emphasis had preceeded and prepared the way for many of the modern excesses."

---Praise God Doc that in this Christian race we ain't gotta be spring chickens to win, and unlike the worlds adage we oldsters (i'm 57) can be taught progressive truth whenever Holy Spirit teaches us, especially regarding error in the faith and His freeing us from it ... Amen, visit other Christian saints/churches/denoms, and let them know that as long as they know who Christ truly is in their salvation you concider them your siblings in Christ, and fellow joint heirs ... And amen on the first part of your statement "I'm ready to get on with finding what I was apprehended for. I also want the church at large to begin to apprehend that which it was apprehended" ... These are my sentiments exactly, and of the mission i believe He put me on, but i'm not so sure i agree with the last part of your statement "but we all want that" ... Not everybody wants that Doc - not everybody, for whatever selfish reason of hidden agenda ---

Doc you wrote;
"What can you say? It's possible I may end up in a charismatic or Pentecostal church but at least I pray I will have a clearer focus and vision. So many of you have mentioned going back to the basics and just being repentant and pursuing holiness. And becoming prayerful and witnessing. That's what I want. You couldn't have expressed it better. Some basic meat and potatoes will be just fine with me. Meanwhile, I'll never again in my life fall down or lay down just because a man of God prays for me. I haven't done it in a while and don't plan on resuming the practice. If I disrupt a service by not falling then it'll just have to be. And if ya'll know any rich saints who got that way following the prosperity gospel then let me know because I don't know any."

---Ahhhhh ... it's when you stop falling down (going along with the program) that you begin to stick out like a sore thumb, so be prepared to give a good and thorough witness for your no longer playing the role of Pentecostalism ... i know of myself unless i've heard correctly of our Lord that He's about to set things aright in my congregation, i'll not be in fellowship with Pentecostalism much longer ... For me the basics will not require
all the exuberance, as God knows the only reason i've been associated with COGIC is because i believe He directed me there to bring me to this point of culmination one way or the other as it has yet to play out ... i want God to be found true, and everyman a liar, beginning with myself if i'm not on the up and up in His Word, will and way ---

Doc you wrote;
"I'm sure keen to hear what some of those who attended this conference may have to share with us. And those people I mentioned who prayed for me in that circle. They are good people. I'm just describing my own process I've been in. And don't those young people coming to the Lord look just fine. Or any age. Hallelujah for that!"

---Amen ... me too Doc ... i'd love for REVIVAL to fall on my church, would love to find out that in this final process i've not been tripping and delusional all these years to boot, but God knows what really matters to me most is that He send us REVIVAL period, no matter where it hits first or thru whom, just as long as He does (if it be His will) ... i know some folk like to think of we preoccupied with TRUE REVIVAL that we may have turned that pursuit into an idol of itself ... God forbid ... But if i be guilty of such, better that error on my behalf than that of some trivial pursuance of something like wealth ... i for one love to see folk get saved at church, but God knows that i also worry for such babes as to how they'll fare under the heaviness of yoke that will be placed on them by church/denom excesses past those of Christ's light yoke ... As you said earlier Doc, i too see far less of such excesses in some of the more mainstream denoms

Bottom line for me tho is to be in line with God's will, as error free as possible as i go, believing all the while
that He's working all things out to my good ... If not for the latter i guess i might too be able to entertain a sense of disillusionment but i don't ... To me Romans 8:28 always points out that no matter what God is always working things out toward my further freedom in Him, and His truth) down here on this low plain, and so each new revelation of my error in the Faith doesn't serve to sit me on the side of the road with a flat tire of dismay, but serves to unblock the road that i might cruise on up it a bit further unobstructed ...

i know that i'm at a crux point, but either way it turns out i know God will have somehow worked it out to what's best for me, and that's freeing (at least to me) :-D ---

Hey Bub ...

Good to see you're still kicking around SI ...

Lord Bless you bro ... :-D