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What law is Jesus refering Here?

A
apt607 Oct 26, 2007

Luke 10:25-27 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 26 He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?" 27 So he answered and said, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbor as yourself.' "


What Law Is Jesus refering on verse 26?

Then Jesus said:

Luke 10:28 And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."


Any comments on this?


In love........

H
HisDaughter Oct 26, 2007

1 John 3:23 "And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment."

Praise God, His commandment is LOVE, His law is Love. He came to fulfill the law, because of His great love for us, and now we can love Him because He first loved us. Furthermore, we can love others because He loved us, and has given us His love!

C
christdway Oct 26, 2007

Calvary Greetings,
In Luke 10:26. Jesus was refering to the first and last law that tie the other commandmend of God in Exodus 20.

God bless you.

Benjamin.

P
psalm1 Oct 27, 2007

apt607,hi,one thing i have noticed. Jesus was hard on the scribes and pharises.He was "hidden' from them spiritually and many times he answered them with a question.But to his disciples he spoke plainly.
I believe it is possible this ties in with galations "there is no law given that could impart life" In other words the law cant save.
Little did this jew know he was talking to the same Lord of the verse he was quoting.

.....very deep question.

worth pondering.....

..David

sermonindex Oct 27, 2007


christdway wrote:
Calvary Greetings,
In Luke 10:26. Jesus was refering to the first and last law that tie the other commandmend of God in Exodus 20.

God bless you.

Benjamin.

Technically, these two commandments are:

Deuteronomy 6:4-5
[color=CC0000]4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 [u]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might[/u].[/color]

Leviticus 19:18
[color=CC0000]18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, [u]but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself[/u]: I am the LORD.[/color]

But others' answers - like the above by Benjamin - are great!

Jeannette

sermonindex Oct 27, 2007


apt607 wrote:
Luke 10:25-27

What Law is Jesus refering on verse 26?

The "lawyers" were experts on the Old Testament - especially the Law of Moses, in other words [i][u]the whole[/u][/i] of Exodus to Deuteronomy. I think Genesis was normally included as well, though it predates Moses, because it's thought that Moses wrote Genesis as well.

The "Law and the Prophets" are often spoken of together.

Matthew 22:
[color=990000]34 ¶ But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.[/color]

Perhaps the lawyer referred to in Luke 10 had heard Jesus when he said this, and was trying to be clever! The same passage continues with the lawyer trying to justify or excuse himself by asking, "Who is my neighbour?", so Jesus told him the parable of the Good Samaritan.

Loving others is expressed in practical action, not merely sentimental feelings. And it includes anyone we come across who needs our help - whether we like them or not. And, in those days, Jews [i]didn't[/i] get on with Samaritans!

Mmmm. No way are we equal to the challenge, either of loving God or our neighbour that way. But Christ in us is! So we have to let Him do it. I remember realising (while working in a psychiatric nursing home) that my own love just wasn't strong enough to make any difference, or - especially - to cope with some of the more difficult characters (patients and staff!)...

In Him

Jeannette

P
psalm1 Oct 27, 2007

littlegift, your answer stirred me to look more closely at this exchange of luke 10.
now compare with matt 22;39 and mar 12;31
This is profound i had never seen this.
In matt and mar, it is Jesus quoting lev.19;18
however in luke 10 it is the lawyer trying to tempt Jesus quoting the same thing.
at first it looks like the lawyer is answering so profoundly, but is he merely parroting what he herd Jesus say?
Look closely at the next exchange, it says "but he willing to justify himself said.........."

does this bring the dialog out of the context of the law?
It appears once again Jesus is miles ahead of their snare.
How do you interpret this?

.....David

P
psalm1 Oct 27, 2007

littlegift, I was cmposing my last post and unaware you were basically looking at the same study i was,


Bet you cant do that again.....lol...


David

D
DHL Oct 27, 2007

Hi apt607,

That is a very interesting question indeed.

This is what I believe.

A Lawyer asked Jesus about what he should do to inherit eternal life.

Although Luke mentions the fact that the lawyer was testing Jesus and to some that might give the impression that the question was not genuine, I believe that Jesus treated him as if he was being genuine. And I also believe that Jesus would give the same answer if anybody would ask Him the same question.

Now, Doesn't it make you wonder why would Jesus mention the Law?

More strangelly yet, was the answer that Jesus gave after the lawyer had replied to His question about the law.

He said,

Luke 10:28 And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."


Now, your question was, what law was Jesus talking about?


Well I could give you some clues.

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses reread the law to the israelites and on chapter six Moses said that this is the essence of the Ten Commandments:

Deuteronomy 6:4-6 4 " Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one! 5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. 6 " And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.


Deuteronomy 10:12-17 " And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require of you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 "and to keep the commandments of the LORD and His statutes which I command you today for your good? 14 "Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the LORD your God, also the earth with all that is in it. 15 "The LORD delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day. 16 "Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer. 17 "For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe.


Note that this was said by moses refering to the Ten commandments.


and again.


Deuteronomy 13:3-4 "you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 "You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice, and you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him.


Deuteronomy 30:6-8 "And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. 7 "Also the LORD your God will put all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. 8 "And you will again obey the voice of the LORD and do all His commandments which I command you today.


This was also said by Joshua,

Joshua 22:5-6 "But take careful heed to do the commandment and the law which Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways, to keep His commandments, to hold fast to Him, and to serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul." 6 So Joshua blessed them and sent them away, and they went to their tents.


these were all taken from the old Testament, but Here is Jesus refering to the comandments, the same commandments that He told the lawyer to obey so that He could Live.


Matthew 22:35-40 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37 Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 "This is the first and great commandment. 39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."


Matthew tell us about this Lawyer that tested Jesus by asking about the the greatests commandments of the Law.

and Jesus is the one that answers the Lawyer by telling Him what the greatest commandments are.

Luke in the other hand tells a story which was totally the opposite.

On luke's account, the Lawyer asked Jesus how to enter into eternal life.

Here Jesus was the One that bring the Law up and asks the lawyer was does the law says?
and the lawyer is the one the tells Jesus what is written on the law.

the account of Matthew 22:35
and the account of Luke 10:26

Is it the same story? I don't know.

One thing I know, it is about Jesus and a lawyer, but the facts are in reverse.

could there be more than an occasion that a lawyer tested Jesus? I don't know either but it could be possible.


One thing apt607, I can say for sure.

Jesus, when asked about the greatest commandments, repeated the same words that Moses told the israelites after rereading the Ten commandments, at least in regard the greatest commandment.


So, My answer to you in regard to what Law was Jesus talking about in Luke 10:26

is, The Ten Commandments.

because the same words that Jesus said: do this and you will live.

was said in here.

Nehemiah 9:29 And testified against them, That You might bring them back to Your law. Yet they acted proudly, And did not heed Your commandments, But sinned against Your judgments, 'Which if a man does, he shall live by them.' And they shrugged their shoulders, Stiffened their necks, And would not hear.

Ezekiel 20:11-14 "And I gave them My statutes and showed them My judgments, 'which, if a man does, he shall live by them.' 12 "Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. 13 "Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, 'which, if a man does, he shall live by them'; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them. 14 "But I acted for My name's sake, that it should not be profaned before the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out.


Dear apt607, please do not think that I am preaching salvation by the works of the law.

Justification is only by faith and faith in Jesus Christ, but One has to repent and confess His sins and turn away from them, and as Jesus said Himself:
We have to love the LORD our God with all our heart, with all our soul, with all our strength, and with all our mind,' and 'our neighbor as ourselves.' "

and that is exactly what the Ten Commandments shows us.

It shows us how we are going to love our God and our neighbour.


I hope this answers your question.

DHL

J
jayyou Oct 27, 2007

Dear brother psalm 1,

quote: I believe it is possible this ties in with galations "there is no law given that could impart life" In other words the law cant save.


Dear brother your statment here goes against what Jesus said to the Lawyer when He says:

Luke 10:28 And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."

Now according to your statement, you cannot live but Jesus said the opposite.

We know that Jesus and the lawyer were talking about a law, and the laywer replied to Jesus saying what was written on the law, and Jesus replied to him saying that he had answered correctly, and that If he would do them he would live.

What is your view of this verse?

It would be interesting to know.

sermonindex Oct 27, 2007


jayyou wrote:
Dear brother psalm 1,

quote: I believe it is possible this ties in with galations "there is no law given that could impart life" In other words the law cant save.


Dear brother your statment here goes against what Jesus said to the Lawyer when He says:

Luke 10:28 And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."

Now according to your statement, you cannot live but Jesus said the opposite.

We know that Jesus and the lawyer were talking about a law, and the laywer replied to Jesus saying what was written on the law, and Jesus replied to him saying that he had answered correctly, and that If he would do them he would live.

What is your view of this verse?

It would be interesting to know.

Excuse me butting in here :-) This is becoming such a good thread, so stimulating, (I'm learning new things from familiar Scriptures even while writing a post).

[color=000099]"We know that Jesus and the lawyer were talking about a law, and the laywer replied to Jesus saying what was written on the law, and Jesus replied to him saying that he had answered correctly, and that If he would do them he would live."[/color]

Exactly! The question is could he actually [u]do[/u] what his glib answer said? If it were possible for fallen man to love God with all our heart etc, and our neighbour as ourselves, then we would live.

But we can't, we need Jesus.

Maybe the lawyer imagined that he was already loving God by doing his religious duties; but the bit about the neighbour was a tricky one. So he tried to wriggle out of it, thinking in his heart that "neighbour" must mean his fellow lawyers, his friends, or even his fellow Jews - not foreigners or especially not Samaritan mixed-blood heretics!

As it says in Galations the Law was in order to bring us to Christ - by showing us we [i]can't[/i] keep it!

So it does indeed tie in.


Blessings

Jeannette

sermonindex Oct 27, 2007


psalm1 wrote:
littlegift, I was cmposing my last post and unaware you were basically looking at the same study i was,


Bet you cant do that again.....lol...


David

:-D

I
InTheLight Oct 27, 2007

We know that Jesus and the lawyer were talking about a law, and the laywer replied to Jesus saying what was written on the law, and Jesus replied to him saying that he had answered correctly, and that If he would do them he would live. What is your view of this verse? It would be interesting to know.

The whole of Scripture teaches that the purpose of the law is to pinpoint sin and bring it out of it's hiding place, not to save. As Paul said...

"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
(Rom 3:19-20)

So when Jesus declared to the lawyer, "do this and you will live", He is reiterating the demands of the law, that it must be kept completely and perfectly to obtain eternal life. In so doing I believe His intent was to convict the lawyer of the impossibility of that task since such perfection is not possible with man. It was to convict him of his complete and utter need of a Savior.

What such conviction should bring us to is exemplified in Romans 7...

What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.
(Rom 7:7-9)

For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.
(Rom 7:18)

Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
(Rom 7:24-25)

In Christ,

Ron

P
psalm1 Oct 27, 2007

jayyou, i am not sure about the time period when Jesus walked the earth.
for example;the thief on the cross,never prayed the sinners prayer.
i think that when Jesus talked to the know it alls he knew they were trying to trip him up.
and maybe the answers he gave them were multifaceted.
the lawyer ,because Jesus hadnt gone to the cross,couldnt pray the sinners prayer.
the best we can do is look at the context to get an understanding of what Jesus intent was.

I wonder if anyone has studied this or maybe it can be archived.
I know i plan to take another lok at it myself.


,,,...David

P
psalm1 Oct 27, 2007

littlegift, thier is another possibility.
That the lawyer only repeated what he had herd Jesus saying. Then he didnt really care what Jesus answered because he immediately said who is my neighbor.
If you keep reading his neighbor was 'unclean' and this was a new revelation to any jew.
In otherwords the lawyer set Jesus up to get to his point. 'Who is my neighbor'

do you agree?

David

C
CJaKfOrEsT Oct 28, 2007


apt607 wrote:
...He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?"
...
What Law Is Jesus refering..
...
He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."



LittleGift wrote:
Technically, these two commandments are:

Deuteronomy 6:4-5
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And [u]thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might[/u].

The law Jesus was referring to was the Torah, or the Law of Moses. One can note that Jesus' statement "do this and you will live" appears frequently in Mosaic writing, particularly Deuteronomy.

As Jeanette has pointed out, Jesus cited two commandments in response to a query as to which [u]one[/u] was the greatest. He cited what Jews refer to as the "Shamar" as the [u]greatest commandment[/u], but that doesn't answer why he cited a second. Even today, if you were to ask a Jew what the Shamar is, he would most likely be able to recite Deut 6:4-5 from memory, in Hebrew. For the Jew, the Shamar is nothing more than a tribute to Monotheism, but Jesus wanted to clarify what "loving the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might" looks like, by citing a second which is "like unto it". Without this addition the "certain lawyer" could have felt justified in "loving" a self serving god with all his being, and calling that god HaShem.

So we have a Law which has been clarified with the Shamar, and the Shamar described as being like unto "loving your neighbour as yourself". Now onto Jesus' words "do this and you will live", has there ever been anyone who has actually done this? Bare in mind that Law demands consistent obedience, with a penalty attached to disobedience. Also note the the Law decrees that "The soul that sinneth , it shall die." That is the penalty.

The final note to be considered is that death could not hold down the only one who actually consistently obeyed the Law, and it is that resurrection which our justification is based on. Therefore it could be said that he "did this and he lived".

I hope this helps.

sermonindex Oct 28, 2007


psalm1 wrote:
jayyou, i am not sure about the time period when Jesus walked the earth.
for example;the thief on the cross,never prayed the sinners prayer.
i think that when Jesus talked to the know it alls he knew they were trying to trip him up.
and maybe the answers he gave them were multifaceted.
Good point! Most of His answers must have been - the one about "render unto Caesar..." for example.


the lawyer ,because Jesus hadnt gone to the cross,couldnt pray the sinners prayer.
the best we can do is look at the context to get an understanding of what Jesus intent was.

I wonder if anyone has studied this or maybe it can be archived.
I know i plan to take another lok at it myself.


,,,...David

Hi David

Our salvation is eternal - the fact that Jesus hadn't yet gone to the cross doesn't matter - He is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world". His sacrifice is effective both before and after the historical death on the cross.

I'm not sure what the "sinner's prayer" has to do with it. The thief on the cross's prayer was, "Lord remember me when you come into your kingdom", and it was enough. He was acknowledging Jesus as Messiah and Lord and the fact that Jesus' kingdom somehow would remain even though Jesus was at that moment dying like him! We don't have to "pray the sinners prayer" in order to be saved! I didn't, for example. My prayer was "God, I've got to come to you!" And that was enough too!

Blessings

Jeannette

sermonindex Oct 28, 2007


psalm1 wrote:
littlegift, thier is another possibility.
That the lawyer only repeated what he had herd Jesus saying. Then he didnt really care what Jesus answered because he immediately said who is my neighbor.
If you keep reading his neighbor was 'unclean' and this was a new revelation to any jew.
In otherwords the lawyer set Jesus up to get to his point. 'Who is my neighbor'

do you agree?

David

It says that the lawyer wanted to justify himself, so he was probably doing a little more than that. But, as you say, he was also trying to trap Jesus.

You know how sometimes the Lord speaks just a few words and they get down to your core. I think it's likely that this happeed to the lawyer too. He was trying to be clever by parroting Jesus' words back to Him, and Jesus' answer, "That's right, if you do that you will live" challenged him deep down. He hadn't been asking about if he would live, just trying to catch Jesus out!

So probably both our thoughts are correct!

D
DHL Oct 28, 2007

Dearest Jeannete,

Please allow me to comment on your message.

Quote: Exactly! The question is could he actually do what his glib answer said? If it were possible for fallen man to love God with all our heart etc, and our neighbour as ourselves, then we would live.

But we can't, we need Jesus.


I think that apt607, was asking what law was Jesus refering to when He was talking to the Lawyer.

My answer to this question, like brother jayyou said, I believe it to be the Ten Commandments.

We all talk about the reasons why the lawyer asked Jesus that question, and we concentrate on the fact that His intentions were not sincere,
and as you said it yourself, it was a Glib Answer.

Let's all forget what his intentions for asking this to Jesus. Because his intentions does not good to us, but there is one thing that does.

Jesus answer. What Jesus replied to Him is what should be important to us.

and His answer was simple and direct.

Luke 10:28 And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."

Now, did the Lawyer really mean what he said or was it a glib answer?
To me it makes no difference, what really matter is the fact that Jesus brought up the law, and even if the lawyer's answer was not sincere, one fact remains, Jesus said that He had answered correctly and He went even further and said.

Do this and you will live.......

quote:

Exactly! The question is could he actually do what his glib answer said? If it were possible for fallen man to love God with all our heart etc, and our neighbour as ourselves, then we would live.

But we can't, we need Jesus.


Dear sister, When God Gave the law, exodus 20 and then later moses reread the same law in Deuteronomy 5, these were laws that God Gave to them for them to put them in their hearts and live by them.

Now, you are saying that we cannot Love God with all our hearts and that we cannot love our neighbours as ourselves.

I have a problem with that. If I really believe what you just have said then I am declaring God to be an unfair, unjust and tyrant God.

What Loving God would give his chosen people Laws that they could not obey?

What does that make God to be?

A God that gives laws to His people so that they would not be able to follow then and then God would have pleasure in punishing them?

I totally disagree with you on this.

Do we need Jesus, most definetely yes. Our lives without the love of Jesus and the sacrifice He did for us on the cross, by laying down His life so that we might live, would be a pointless life.

The people of the OT, did not have Jesus the same way that we do, but they did have the ceremonials that pointed to Him, all animal sacrifices pointed to what Jesus would do for us.

Now, you said that we cannot Love God with all our hearts and neither love our neighbour with all our hearts, and then you said, we need Jesus.

Having Jesus, How does that change the fact that we still have to love God and our neighbour?

By Having Jesus, Am I released from this duty?


John said: 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.


and look who is going to be saved.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.


God bless you...


sermonindex Oct 28, 2007


DHL wrote:

Exactly! The question is could he actually do what his glib answer said? If it were possible for fallen man to love God with all our heart etc, and our neighbour as ourselves, then we would live.

But we can't, we need Jesus.

Dear sister, When God Gave the law, exodus 20 and then later moses reread the same law in Deuteronomy 5, these were laws that God Gave to them for them to put them in their hearts and live by them.

Now, you are saying that we cannot Love God with all our hearts and that we cannot love our neighbours as ourselves.

I have a problem with that. If I really believe what you just have said then I am declaring God to be an unfair, unjust and tyrant God.

What Loving God would give his chosen people Laws that they could not obey?

What does that make God to be?

A God that gives laws to His people so that they would not be able to follow then and then God would have pleasure in punishing them?

I totally disagree with you on this.

Dear DHL

Welcome to SI!

I don't think you totally disagree with me, I think you totally [i]misunderstand[/i] what has been said on this particular point.

More than one on this thread has mentioned Galatians, and how the Law was in order to bring us to Christ. That is the answer.

Try the whole of Galatians, and Romans 6-8.

For example, in Galatians 2:
[color=990000]19 For [b][i]I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.[/i][/b]
20 [b][i]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me[/i][/b]: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.[/color]

Now, you said that we cannot Love God with all our hearts and neither love our neighbour with all our hearts, and then you said, we need Jesus.

Having Jesus, How does that change the fact that we still have to love God and our neighbour?

By Having Jesus, Am I released from this duty?

"Having Jesus" means that [i][u]He[/u][/i] lives in us. That is what releases us from hopeless striving to obey God in our own strength!

I am indeed released from this duty, which the Law shows I cannot fulfil. Not released to continue to fail and continue to sin, but released by "death", by being "crucified with Christ"; and released by life by being "risen with Him". Our obedience to the Law is spiritually like Mary's obedience physically, when she agreed that the Messiah should be conceived in her. She didn't do anything, except say, "Yes, Lord", I'm your slave-girl. Do in me what you have said!"

John said: 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
Indeed they are not! Because He died and because He lives in us, and His perfect obedience is available! When we understand that, we will cast away the "withered fig leaves" of our own attempts to please God and receive "the Lord our Righteousness" in truth, and begin to walk in that truth in practice. (It took me many years of hopeless striving, even after being born again to really begin to understand, so I do know what I'm talking about)

and look who is going to be saved.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

AMEN!

Nothing I have written conflicts with this in the slightest. :-P

in Him

Jeannette

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