Conviction or Condemnation

“…he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment.” Jn 16:8

Without a doubt, wherever God is working, Satan is nearby, trying to mimic God. A good example is Holy Spirit conviction. God’s purpose for conviction is to draw us TOWARD himself. On the other hand, Satan tries to condemn us in order to lure us AWAY FROM God.

Satan has no power over true believers except where he can tempt us by convincing us of his lies. Condemnation is a good example. He hurls down lies about ourselves in order to suck us into an ever deepening vortex of hopelessness and despair. There are plenty people in our lives whom Satan can use, who through their own unrepentance have made themselves willing instruments for the devil.

But Satan can also plant thoughts directly into our minds. I will never forget the night that I was under attack by the devil. He set before my mind’s eye a fast-moving video of my entire life –from childhood on, and showed me how vile and horrible I was all along the way, and utterly unfit ever for God. I felt myself sinking down a steep slippery slope. It swirled down, down, down - like falling into hell itself. I couldn’t even reach out a hand to cry out to God. I couldn’t even stop myself from believing what I was hearing about myself. The “video” went so fast I couldn’t even get a moment to think what was happening. (The next day God rescued me through conviction; maybe I’ll share that story later.)

We must learn to receive the Spirit’s words of conviction, and reject the devil’s voices of condemnation. Knowing the difference is crucial, for it is all too easy to ignore God’s voice of conviction while accepting the devil’s voice of condemnation.

From my own experiences I have found that the voice of condemnation comes in generalized character slams, gossip, or the words that are so non-specific like, you are no good, you are lazy, worldly, one of “them”, etc. They may come thought a hardened preacher who leaves me feeling oppressed and dirty afterwards. They may be accompanied by a tone of anger. The anger may betray a desire for revenge, and may incite division rather than restitution with God and unity in the Body.

Conviction, on the other hand is like a sharp needle, pricking in the exact spot of trouble. Condemnation is like a sledge hammer.

Conviction is clear to us to us because the Spirit enlightens our conscience. Condemnation is hazzy, a dark pressure on our spirit.

Conviction produces a hunger for the word. Condemnation leaves the Bible closed on our shelves.

Conviction movivates prayer. Condemnation seeks alternatives to God.

Jesus convicted. The Pharisee’s condemned.

Conviction always opens a door for mercy and freedom from sin. Condemnation imprisons us in a pit of shame.

The devil’s condemnation tempts us to absolve our guilt and shame in our own strength – by trying harder, by stopping an addiction, by becoming very pious, churchy, etc. But it never sets us free from sin; it just masks or suppresses it. It leads us to the doctrine of works – thus drawing us to live in the flesh and not the Spirit. It leads to pride. It draws us away from everything that Christ died for and that is offered us in his resurrection.

"Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts..." Heb. 3:15
.....

... any more thoughts?

Diane

Thank you for sharing this.

I received conviction gladly

God, like a tender, loving surgeon, is careful not to cause permanent damage when doing open-heart surgery (without aesthetic!) I trust him. (Satan wishes to inflict permanent damage when he goes at our hearts)

As I look back, I realize that the Lord has been very gentle with his Spirit convictions – and does it progressively throughout life. I don’t think I could ever cope, or even survive if he convicts me of all my sin at once. Could anyone?

Diane

...satan only does what the Lord allows him to do. So many people blame satan for things he is not responsible for, it's us, we are the man...

So many people blame satan for things he is not responsible for, it's us, we are the man...

Diane

roadsign, you did such a good job! I was blessed by that post.

If you dont mind I would add one thing.

The backsslider has both conviction and condemnation.This is true misery. We've all been there.

Thank you Jesus for your mighty hand and bretheren that are redeeming and encouraging.

David

Actually, it bears little concerning Job, but again, satan was given permission to test Job...

Conviction is clear to us to us because the Spirit enlightens our conscience. Condemnation is hazy, a dark pressure on our spirit.

Conviction produces a hunger for the word. Condemnation leaves the Bible closed on our shelves.

Conviction movivates prayer. Condemnation seeks alternatives to God.

Excellent thoughts here Diane. Bless you for your thoughtfulness and love for the Gospel.

This is especially good.

Conviction always opens a door for mercy and freedom from sin. Condemnation imprisons us in a pit of shame.

Conviction from the Holy Spirit is indeed a door leading to repentence and deliverance, but condemnation is a cell without a door or even a window. We find that many people, even leaders, in the church today cannot seem to offer anything more inspiring then condemnation and it's ambitious sibling; self-righteousness...which could very well mean that they personally are strangers to the ministry and life of the Holy Spirit.

MC

This condemnation issue is not for a truly born-again Christian, it is not scriptural. Conviction yes, condemnation, no. Read Romans 8:1 please. Our Lord does not condemn His children in anything, absolutely nothing. He indeed chastises in love...there is no condemnation in love.
If satan desires to condemn you then he must seek the Lord's permission for this. If he indeed has permission from the Lord to sift you (Luke 22:31) then, it must be for your own good as it was Jobs...

If you don’t mind I would add one thing.

The backslider has both conviction and condemnation. This is true misery. We've all been there.

This condemnation issue is not for a truly born-again Christian, it is not scriptural.

as it was Jobs...

I think it is worth steering this conversation into the direction of OUR role in being used by the devil to condemn our brothers and sisters. Oh how easy it is to point fingers at others, and, like Job’s friends, tell them that their troubles are the result of their sin. During the years that I was ill, I had plenty of “friends” like that. Some of them didn’t even need to say any words. I just knew what they were thinking. It left me feeling even more ill and miserable. They did nothing to alleviate my misery or steer me towards God and TRUE repentance.

it must be for your own good as it was Jobs..

My encounters with “Job’s friends” helped me smash my lofty view of Christians. I found it very helpful to realize that the voices of condemnation were from the devil, not my friends. That made it easier to forgive them, and go on appreciating them. Through these experiences I also became aware of my own tendencies to condemn others. Now that was conviction!!

We find that many people, even leaders, in the church today cannot seem to offer anything more inspiring then condemnation and it's ambitious sibling; self-righteousness...

Why do so many believe they can condemn people into the kingdom!?!

Answer:

they personally are strangers to the ministry and life of the Holy Spirit.

Contrary to what we were taught, there is a lot of preaching that we must learn to reject.

God brought Job into true conviction by giving Job a far bigger picture of God than he had before. His friends couldn’t do that.

Diane

Actually, I think the mature Christian can even benefit from condemnation. Let me explain why:

I agree that the Holy Spirit never condemns, but convicts as all of you pointed out. However, only if you are either condemned by Satan's voice or other people will you true abiding in God's grace become obvious.

The weak will be offended and fight back in the flesh or fall into dispair. Jesus, Paul, Peter and many other true followers were also condemned.
Those who bless those who condemn them are truly sons of God.

Job's disaster came in a moment, yet his friends plagued him over 30 chapters. Their friends were spirit filled Christians just like you and me - admit that pal! They also spoke some truth.
Job was ordered to pray for them and return blessing for accusation. Job's prayer vindicated them and saved them from God's ultimate condemnation in hell.
I see that in years to some of us will be tested on that level and very few have reached and understanding of grace that can offer redemptive prayers for our fallen brehtren accusers.

Paul when hit by the servants of the high priest was concience striken by the Holy Spirit about his verbal retaliation and had to apologize to his accuser!

Stephen's redemptive prayer released the spirtual ministry of the greatest accuser the church had seen in the early days.

On a the level of my mind, when I am accused by Satan, I do not try to fight these thoughts but just throw myself onto the grace of God.

So accused or convicted, we can benefit and grow both ways.

Philip

Brother Phillip wrote:

They also spoke some truth.

I believe that the book of Job is given to us as a view into the ancient path that existed since Adam and Eve. The friends of Job, each described different precepts of God's kingdom. While they knew the precept of God they themselves were not called to deliver Job from his trial. We find that Elihu was called to give Job understanding.

We often find ourselves helpless in ministering to others, probably because it is not according to the wisdom of God. We offer carnal advise which has no power to deliver. But when God moves in a person's life by sending the spiritual answer to the trial, well then, we see that repentance is a God given gift.

Just a thought
In Christ
Jeff

Just a curious note...Paul did not apologize in Acts 23, He only expressed ignorance and then made reference to the law. He did this to advantage himself, considering the situation he was in at that particular time. Why do you think he was 'stricken by the Holy Spirit? Paul knew the full impact of the sacrifice of our Lord and, from that, like the fading 'glory' of Moses, knew that the high priest was only an iconic figurehead.
By the way, Jesus did not even flinch when accosted by the high priest, He ignored him. Mt.26:62,63. He ignored Herod and Pilate, good stuff huh?

Dear Saints
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

you know, much of what has been said here has been swirling in my spirit over the last few weeks and God has been working some things out in the life of my family. bro Jeff said this which struck me so:

We often find ourselves helpless in ministering to others, probably because it is not according to the wisdom of God. We offer carnal advise which has no power to deliver. But when God moves in a person's life by sending the spiritual answer to the trial, well then, we see that repentance is a God given gift.

i think of the friends of Job, they spoke all the right things technically but there was something lacking, so much so that they offended God and irony of ironies, the one they accused was the only one whose prayers and sacrifices were acceptable to God for them to be forgiven. let us think of that for a moment. Indeed we have all learned some things of God and not just know of Him but know Him. Sometimes however in spite of knowing all the technically sound things, our advice/words lack power because the things which we speak of have not the Life of God in them to affect change in the life we speak into, ie, they don't convict coz they are dead, they are dead because they don't have the Life of God, they don't have the Life of God because those things haven't been wrought in our lives, those things haven't been wrought in out lives probably because we haven't let God do so that we may preserve our image of ourselves. our adivce and words are often dead and so can only bring death, condemnation.

brethren, we often talk of the Mercy of God toward us but fail to show it in dealing with one another because it hasn't been wrought in our lives in a manner in which our response is Mercy as God's response to us is. there have been times when i have shared things with people who can't relate and they say all the right things but it is hollow because God hasn't worked that thing out in their lives in a manner which allows His Life to come out like Living Waters and water the barren desert of my life. it comes off as a hot wind when i need Water. Sometimes we need a bit of compassion. Sometimes our words/advice is like a chainsaw cutting a tree down, doesn't take long or much effort but if the stump stays, the tree can regrow. Sometimes dear saints we need to tackle the root and i don't think you go after a root system of a 70+ yr old tree with a chainsaw...that needs a different set of tools. i often wonder sometimes if with my words i'm putting a bandaid over something which needs surgery...am i simply hoping it'll be ok when what is needed is the kind of faith and action shown by Elijah and Elisha when they boys of the ladies they stayed with died, they laid on them and sought God, so desperately did they want to see those boys alive that if their lives were required, they'd do it. am i so willing to help a brother/sister out as God leads? are we so willing or would we rather advize from a distance and not get our hands dirty?

saints i am before you as one who has benefitted much from God's Mercy that it is hard for me now it is hard for me to be anything but Merciful even if my brethren don't show Mercy on me. this is something which i boast in the Lord on because Truly such is an Act of God, to take one as myself and teach him Mercy and to be Merciful...God is Good...all this has come at the cost of Calvary and that death is being worked out in me as i confront my wickedness daily, confess it and receive Mercy and am enabled to repent...

Bless God for His Mercy...

Grace and Peace are ours in JEsus.AMEN.

Sometimes our words/advice is like a chainsaw cutting a tree down, doesn't take long or much effort but if the stump stays, the tree can regrow.

i often wonder sometimes if with my words i'm putting a bandaid over something which needs surgery..

I am baffled, why do we keep on trying to fight the forces of evil with our own strength, when it has never worked in the past?

Could it be that we have a surface understanding of sin: we don’t see the root structure that supplies the sin? Is it that we have never understood our own sin nature deeply enough? Do we have an inflated view of our own power – to conquer sin in others? Do we lack enough faith in God to do the surgery? Have we lost faith in the miraculous – that is the power of God to transform others? Are we trying to fix those who are still unregenerate?
Are we trusting in ourselves for our own righteosness?

Sometimes dear saints we need to tackle the root and i don't think you go after a root system of a 70+ yr old tree with a chainsaw...

Let me tell you, I’m glad that God has worked in my life a root at a time. That can be painful enough! He also brought me into true salvation. Unlike the condemners, God doesn’t rip off a leaf here and there, and leave me stripped bare and exposed, and condemned. He brings me to himself, though it may be through a path of darkness.

God makes a far better surgeon than me, and when he wounds (puts to death), he also heals. I can’t do that, but I can partner with God in the process!

that needs a different set of tools.

Paul said:
“Pray for me that when ever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I may fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel…. “ Eph. 6:18

What is this mystery? Does it relate to this issue of conviction vs condemnation?

Thank you, Ironman for sharing your thoughts.

Diane