Relativism the disease of our age: Standing up for Dogmatic Truth

In this world I come across so many people who I have to argue against biblical truth in which they say it is only an opinion.
Has the church lost the fundamentals of standing up for what it believes in and that the bible from beginning to end. Because if we do not believe and stand up for what we believe then other things will take their place if we do not stand up for the truth then a lie is sure to take its place.

Mt 22:16 - Show Context
And they sent to Him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, "Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of God in truth; nor do You care about anyone, for You do not regard the person of men.

Mr 5:33 - Show Context
But the woman, fearing and trembling, knowing what had happened to her, came and fell down before Him and told Him the whole truth.

Mr 12:14 - Show Context
When they had come, they said to Him, "Teacher, we know that You are true, and care about no one; for You do not regard the person of men, but teach the way of God in truth. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?

Mr 12:32 - Show Context
So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He.

Lu 20:21 - Show Context
Then they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, we know that You say and teach rightly, and You do not show personal favoritism, but teach the way of God in truth:

Joh 1:14 - Show Context
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Joh 1:17 - Show Context
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Joh 3:21 - Show Context
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

Joh 4:23 - Show Context
But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.

Joh 4:24 - Show Context
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Joh 5:33 - Show Context
You have sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth.

Joh 8:32 - Show Context
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

Joh 8:40 - Show Context
But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.

Joh 8:44 - Show Context
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Joh 8:45 - Show Context
But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.

Joh 8:46 - Show Context
Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?

Joh 14:6 - Show Context
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Joh 14:17 - Show Context
the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

Joh 15:26 - Show Context
"But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

Joh 16:7 - Show Context
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

Joh 16:13 - Show Context
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Joh 17:17 - Show Context
Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

Joh 17:19 - Show Context
And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Joh 18:37 - Show Context
Pilate therefore said to Him, "Are You a king then?" Jesus answered, "You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."

Joh 18:38 - Show Context
Pilate said to Him, "What is truth?" And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, "I find no fault in Him at all.

Joh 19:35 - Show Context
And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.

Ac 10:34 - Show Context
Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.

Ac 21:34 - Show Context
And some among the multitude cried one thing and some another. So when he could not ascertain the truth because of the tumult, he commanded him to be taken into the barracks.

Ac 26:25 - Show Context
But he said, "I am not mad, most noble Festus, but speak the words of truth and reason.

Ro 1:18 - Show Context
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Ro 1:25 - Show Context
who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Ro 2:2 - Show Context
But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.

Ro 2:8 - Show Context
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath,

Ro 2:20 - Show Context
an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law.

Ro 3:7 - Show Context
For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?

Ro 9:1 - Show Context
I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit,

Ro 15:8 - Show Context
Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers,

1Co 5:8 - Show Context
Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

1Co 13:6 - Show Context
does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;

2Co 4:2 - Show Context
But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

Co 6:7 - Show Context
by the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armor of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,

2Co 7:14 - Show Context
For if in anything I have boasted to him about you, I am not ashamed. But as we spoke all things to you in truth, even so our boasting to Titus was found true.

2Co 11:10 - Show Context
As the truth of Christ is in me, no one shall stop me from this boasting in the regions of Achaia.

2Co 12:6 - Show Context
For though I might desire to boast, I will not be a fool; for I will speak the truth. But I refrain, lest anyone should think of me above what he sees me to be or hears from me.

2Co 13:8 - Show Context
For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.

Ga 2:5 - Show Context
to whom we did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Ga 2:14 - Show Context
But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?

Ga 3:1 - Show Context
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth,* before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you+ as crucified?

Ga 4:16 - Show Context
Have I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?

Ga 5:7 - Show Context
You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?

Eph 1:13 - Show Context
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 4:15 - Show Context
but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ--

Eph 4:21 - Show Context
if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:

Eph 4:25 - Show Context
Therefore, putting away lying, "Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another.

Eph 5:9 - Show Context
(for the fruit of the Spirit* is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),

Eph 6:14 - Show Context
Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,

Php 1:18 - Show Context
What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice.

Col 1:5 - Show Context
because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,

Col 1:6 - Show Context
which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

1Th 2:13 - Show Context
For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.

2Th 2:10 - Show Context
and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:12 - Show Context
that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2Th 2:13 - Show Context
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

1Ti 2:4 - Show Context
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 2:7 - Show Context
for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle--I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying--a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

1Ti 3:15 - Show Context
but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

1Ti 4:3 - Show Context
forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

1Ti 6:5 - Show Context
useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

2Ti 2:15 - Show Context
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Ti 2:18 - Show Context
who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.

2Ti 2:25 - Show Context
in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,

2Ti 3:7 - Show Context
always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2Ti 3:8 - Show Context
Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;

2Ti 4:4 - Show Context
and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

Tit 1:1 - Show Context
Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,

Tit 1:14 - Show Context
not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.

Heb 10:26 - Show Context
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Jas 1:18 - Show Context
Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Jas 3:14 - Show Context
But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth.

Jas 5:19 - Show Context
Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,

1Pe 1:22 - Show Context
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,

2Pe 1:12 - Show Context
For this reason I will not be negligent to remind you always of these things, though you know and are established in the present truth.

2Pe 2:2 - Show Context
And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.

1Jo 1:6 - Show Context
If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

1Jo 1:8 - Show Context
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 2:4 - Show Context
He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jo 2:21 - Show Context
I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

1Jo 3:18 - Show Context
My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

1Jo 3:19 - Show Context
And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.

1Jo 4:6 - Show Context
We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

1Jo 5:6 - Show Context
This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.

2Jo 1:1 - Show Context
The Elder, To the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all those who have known the truth,

2Jo 1:2 - Show Context
because of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:

2Jo 1:3 - Show Context
Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

2Jo 1:4 - Show Context
I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children walking in truth, as we received commandment from the Father.

3Jo 1:1 - Show Context
The Elder, To the beloved Gaius, whom I love in truth:

3Jo 1:3 - Show Context
For I rejoiced greatly when brethren came and testified of the truth that is in you, just as you walk in the truth.

3Jo 1:4 - Show Context
I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

3Jo 1:8 - Show Context
We therefore ought to receive such, that we may become fellow workers for the truth.

3Jo 1:12 - Show Context
Demetrius has a good testimony from all, and from the truth itself. And we also bear witness, and you know that our testimony is true.

We will stnad up for truth if it means getting banned from church or rejected. I know I cannot do it in my own strength but Jesus can.

Hi deltadom...

Thanks for your post. This is certainly worth addressing, as there are many discussions today that evolve from [i]contending for the faith[/i] into [i]contending for a conclusion[/i].

The problem for standing for the "dogmatic truth" is that so many ideas of “truth” exist. Within the membership of this web community, there are hardly two believers who are completely unified in every matter of the faith. We must ask ourselves the importance of such strongly held beliefs -- and whether or not such beliefs are unquestionable enough that they should be thrust upon others.

For instance, how many arguments have been created over the "doctrinal" discussion of Biblical prophecy? How many “pre-trib,” “mid-trib” and “post-trib” discussions are needed for believers to realize that a doctrinal position is not 100% abundantly clear from the Scriptures. Rather, we CLAIM that the Scriptures are “clear” – even though it often took some of us a decade or longer to come to a conclusion. One group often feels utterly convinced about the matter -- enough to pass off those who believe differently as "misled" or even "believers of a lie." Should a person spend time and effort to ARGUE that their belief is superior (or the only viewpoint that truly matters) -- or should they simply make their views and beliefs known (and let the Holy Spirit do the rest)?

This is NOT relativism. This is simply allowing a person the opportunity to research and understand the Scriptures for themselves. There are quite a few issues that are not universally clear from the Scriptures.

Sadly, there are viewers who passionately argue vigorously for their beliefs because they feel that GOD SHOWED THEM something pertaining to doctrine. Sometimes, these believers grow frustrated with those who will not heed to the “truth” that God has supposedly shown them. Sometimes, they adhere to a “victim syndrome” by claiming that they are being “persecuted” for their having insolently stood for the “truth” when their facts are called into question. They are sometimes even willing to dismiss those who question the validity of their beliefs as being “tools of the enemy.” Sometimes, a discussion can result with all sides feeling this way. Yet I often wonder whether or not we should even make doctrines out of things that are not completely and abundantly clear from Scripture?

Recently, a few individuals spoke to me about the “prophetic words” of an up and coming member of the “prophetic” movement. This person claims that the events of Hurricane Katrina were the direct result of “God’s hand of judgment” on America. This brother claims to have had a dream about the wrath of God being poured upon New Orleans. I discussed this with a few individuals who were convinced that this brother was “operating in the prophetic.” This brother is staunchly “post-trib” and preaches about the sinful and “Babylonian” rationale behind the belief in a “pre-trib” rapture. When I was asked, I told these people that I don’t agree with the claims of this “prophet.” It’s not that I necessarily think that what he is saying is completely [i]incorrect[/i].

While I lean toward a “pre-trib” rapture, I just don’t think that we should so quickly “buy” the “prophetic uttering” of any person based upon their doctrinal persuasion about the timing of the rapture. I am also not completely persuaded that Hurricane Katrina was the result of [i]God’s wrath[/i]. There are far more sinful cities in America (and the world) than New Orleans (where most of the “sin” is committed by tourists). Why would God choose to cause the death of the poor and elderly by allowing a Category 3 hurricane break open some badly engineered levees? Again, I am not saying that this was NOT the hand of God – I’m just questioning whether or not it was.

Immediately, a couple of these individuals attacked me at once. They asked whether or not I felt the freedom to question the “words of a prophet.” When I said that I am not convinced that this man is even a “prophet” – well, that just didn’t settle too well with them. I was accused of being a “scoffer.”
I was amazed at the faith that believers can so easily place upon “prophets” that speak words that more or less agree with their doctrinal persuasion.

Should we take a “stand for dogmatic truth” when we are not completely certain about an issue? Should we be “completely certain” about an issue that is at best speculative? I truly feel that we should contend for the truth. But I feel that we need to be careful about becoming argumentative upon ideas that are, at best, doctrinal conclusions. We also need to be careful about claiming something to be an inarguable doctrine that is not stated so in the Scripture. This is where disagreements and disunity arise. Are such heated discussions about issues “contending for the Faith” or a mere squabble about our own conclusions? I have a friend who, whenever you discuss a doctrinal issue, will always say, "[i]Show me the Scripture[/i]." I think that is a good mindset. If something is not abundantly clear from the Word of God, why settle on an ultimate conclusion? Should we not be pliable in case the Lord changes our mind through time, study and maturity? \t

Sadly, there are those who would break fellowship over something as ridiculous as a belief concerning the timing of the rapture.

:-)

Hi He_Reigns...

I didn't understand Dom's post to mean all of that.

I think he meant just what his Bible says --- that we should have a statement of faith that we all can defend and not be moved from - as we've seen recently on this forum.

Circular reasoning could circular the vulnerable right out of Dom's post's intention.

Please don’t “read between the lines” of my post. I wasn't assuming that Dom meant anything negative in the least, and I certainly agree with the essence of what he suggests. I was simply commenting to this:

In this world I come across so many people who I have to argue against biblical truth in which they say it is only an opinion.
Has the church lost the fundamentals of standing up for what it believes in and that the bible from beginning to end. Because if we do not believe and stand up for what we believe then other things will take their place if we do not stand up for the truth then a lie is sure to take its place.

There are many other matters that create heated discussion. In such matters, we should mingle our conversations and discussions with the salt of an awareness of our own fallibility of understanding. There are things that are completely clear…and there are some things that are not. We should know when to contend for truth and when to discuss an opinion. And we should be wise enough to know the difference between the two.

But I also don't see Katrina or any of "men's words" as having a thing to do with this thread. I think he did a great job on bringing out our definite need for Biblical and Moral Absolutes.
Those are the two most threatened areas in these days -- that Jesus, Paul, Peter, Jude and John warned us of.

Sometimes, instead of “taking a hard-line stand” about issues that are so questionable, we should be “slow to speak” or push our beliefs as if they are the only ones that matter. In such matters, I feel that it is better to NOT take a position. The Church is filled with such issues – from dress codes to Bible prophecy to matters regarding the timing of spiritual gifts. Sometimes, I feel that the best stand to take is a stand of “I am persuaded that…” rather than “God showed me.” Some issues may take a little longer to reach a conclusion, and some issues may not even merit the necessity of a final conclusion on this side of Eternity.

As Dom said, we should absolutely stand up for what the Bible says. But I feel that we should be careful that we aren’t standing up for what we perceive the Bible to say.

:-)

Sadly, there are viewers who passionately argue vigorously for their beliefs because they feel that GOD SHOWED THEM something pertaining to doctrine.

Sadly, also is the effect that this kind of misplaced dogmatism has produced. It has provided fuel for relativism, whose supporters have been watching how dogmatism (as described by Chris) has produced so much division in the church. Since to them WeAreRight spells WAR, the solution is that no one has the right to be "right". The relativists believe that they are undoing the damage caused by division, and are trying to restore unity and peace by insisting that every viewpoint should be accepted.

Someone told me recently: "The Bible seems to be the one big source of so much division". I know that she reflects the feelings of many. Unfortunatly she is right - partly, that way. But as we know, the fault lies not with the Bible.

The problem is not that Christ is the way, the truth and the light, but that too many who claim to be his followers think that THEY are the way truth, and light - or - at least they talk as if they were.

Diane

The problem that I found is when argueing someone has got to be right and someone has got to wrong.
Their are some issues which is not the case but when we are debating issues such as the deity of christ and someone says that is only an opinion or even maybe a smaller issue.
I have been noticing how small issues in my life affect big things. God deliver me from small sins.

In computing someone took one pence out of a few thousand computing accounts which works out as a lot of money.
If you have a tap or rain dripping on a mountain it would slowly erode the mountain.

This is also true in Christianity if someone slightly changes something, to me I ask why.
We have a Messiah who is the

Heb 13:8 - Show Context
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Then their must be certain absolutes or constants such as Gravity in the universe.
The bible is one of those constants, we need the inspiration of the holy spirit and Jesus.

Joh 5:39 - Show Context
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

The holy spirit is the sprit of truth

Joh 14:17 - Show Context
the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

Joh 15:26 - Show Context
"But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

Joh 16:13 - Show Context
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Eph 1:13 - Show Context
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 5:9 - Show Context
(for the fruit of the Spirit* is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),

1Pe 1:22 - Show Context
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,

1Jo 4:6 - Show Context
We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

and Jesus calls himself the Truth

1Ti 3:15 - Show Context
but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Joh 14:6 - Show Context
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

This world it's essence does not want to come to Jesus or know truth, even I do not.

Their was one time argueing with people even with the evidence right before their eyes did not believe what I was saying.
I had a time in university when people fobbed or dismissed the gospel as only an opinion, this is so much in the church even if you mention something fundamental to the faith it is only classed as an opinion.
I like absolutes such as the promises of god and his covenant with us. To me the bible is an absolute or a constant which does not need updating or improving.
It is sometimes we try and change god into our image rather than god trying to change us into his image.
It is so restful to know that we have a god who has existed before time began and will be around when time has ended.

Mt 5:18 - Show Context
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

I rely on the bible like the constant of gravity

The bible as a constant speaks against this world it is not from this world and this world in essence is anti-Christ.

If you are writing a computer program someone who is a bad programmer would write lines of unnecessary code.

Being Dogmatic got the Apostles killed

Eleanor was average...

Being Dogmatic got the Apostles killed

I thought they were killed because their message threatened the religious system of the day.

New Wine won't fit into old wine skin.

... sometimes we try and change god into our image rather than god trying to change us into his image.

As they say, Man made God in his own image. We might add: And then he became dogmatic about THAT God. ie, he defends his own god. A good example would be a God who saves us by our own efforts.