Ron Luce, Teen Mainia Ministry, Any Testimonies

I have begun looking into the global mission trips that are sponsored by this ministry...

Does anyone have first hand testimonies of this ministry?

In Christ
Jeff

Believe there are a couple of olders posts in this regard brother.

Believe there are a couple of olders posts in this regard brother.

Yes, there are. We did one awhile back on Luce's ATF (Acquire the Fire) and it resulted in a locked thread and someone being dismissed from the forum. These sorts of conversations tend to be volatile here, as the subject of music often comes into play.

Suffice to say that a youth group from my church went to an ATF meeting earlier this year and came back all fired up, wanting to be missionaries to Africa. They had a "sign-up booth" outside the stadium where kids were prompted to make some sort of commitment without parental consent, without prayer, without any kind of prior consultation, etc. The rally merely spunked their emotions with lights and smoke and pyrotechnical dazzlements with offensively loud hard rock songs for "praise and worship".

In a nutshell, the kids that had "signed-up" to follow Jesus to Africa went back to the world only few weeks later and to this day have no thrist at all for the things of God or righteousness. But they're looking forward to the next rally to see Skillet play again! It makes me angry, actually.

Is there any [i]lasting[/i] fruit at all from functions such as these? I don't know, I can say in all fairness that I've never seen any; apart from being a source of gross entertainment where youth group kids can rally around their favorite Christian super rock stars and hear an earnest message that unfortunately only succeeds in striking the temporal emotions (AKA the soul) of their pathos rather than provoking the spirit to life of holiness and meekness hid in Christ.

On the other hand, when a young person genuinely comes to Jesus Christ in repentance and lays his life on altar of God, these sorts of rallies eventually become obnoxious to him. This I [i]have[/i] seen. The kid eventually comes to actually hate the music and showmanship and idolization and hype and entertainment, as they are given the ability by God to see through it all. The blinders come off. They suddenly realize they do not need these lame functions; they discover that quiet time with the Word of God and the Holy Spirit is all they need.

Brother Paul

(edit) I just realized you were asking about Teen Mania, and I gave you info on Acquire the Fire instead. Please forgive me. I don't know anything about Teen Mania, only that I was in Lindale, Texas last week and passed by a big acreage lot that had a "Teen Mania" sign at the gates. The must have their headquarters out there, next to Wilkerson's World Challenge.

Brother Paul,

"Is there any lasting fruit at all from functions such as these? I don't know, I can say in all fairness that I've never seen any; apart from being a source of gross entertainment where youth group kids can rally around their favorite Christian super rock stars and hear an earnest message that unfortunately only succeeds in striking the temporal emotions (AKA the soul) of their pathos rather than provoking the spirit to life of holiness and meekness hid in Christ."

As I read this I kept saying within [i]'O God'[/i]. What things are being done in God's name today. And with these confused and hurting children.

O God.

What things are being done in God's name today. And with these confused and hurting children.

Yes, dear brother. I believe these sorts of rallies do incredible damage. They basically undermine everything that I preach and teach the kids: to downplay feelings and sensations and experiences in Christianity and instead focus soley on God's Word and walking in faith and obedience without a dependance on visceral experiences. These sorts of events flourish on feelings, on emotional appeal, and if the music or bands were to suddenly be cut-off, ATF and like events would lose almost all their attendance overnight. They would go bankrupt. I always cringe when I hear of these rally things, and the fundraisers the youth do so they can afford the tickets to go.

The kids come back, wide-eyed and beaming with energy and excitement, temporarily stirred in their souls like a man on a cocaine high. "Hey, Paul, me and so-and-so signed up to go to Jamaica in the spring to help plant a church! We're gonna go! We're gonna go and put the devil in a headlock!" I sit there and politely smile and nod, knowing what happened at the rally, the sensational music, the heated exhortation, the firework displays, etc. Of course they come back enthused to change the world! Who wouldn't be! But I know this same dear child telling me he's going to "plant a church" is the same child who is still in bondage to his X-box and rebels against parental authority. He'll go back to his MySpace and video games in a few days when the high starts to wear off. And his heart ends up harder than it was before the pep-rally, and it will take even more lights and fire and music and explosions to get him riled up next time he goes. This stuff is like a soul-drug, and the kids gradually build up more of a tolerance each time. The day will come when they won't feel anything at all, and by then they'll probably be at the age of independance or on the eve of going off to college...and the rest is history as they say. The gradual disenchantment will at last reach its summit. You know the statistics.

I think these shows are very dangerous; they undermine the work of true gospel preaching and the fruit of holiness at the expense of exploiting the emotions of youth to tally up all the "decisions" for a kind of benchmark for success.

Hi Paul,

having seen this play out in my own life I know what you are talking about.

Question: What is you feelings on the 'passion tours', '265 generation' etc? I think the guys name is Loui Giglio or something like that. I know John Piper is attached to these guys.

Thankyou for your posts...I realized that I was not clear when asking about missions...I should have named the thread asking about the actual mission trips that kids have gone on. That part of the organization is called Global Expeditions.

I think I'll start over again with the new title.

Your brother in Christ
Jeff

Question: What is you feelings on the 'passion tours', '265 generation' etc? I think the guys name is Loui Giglio or something like that. I know John Piper is attached to these guys.

Hi ZekeO,

I've never heard of any of those guys. Being Piper is of the Calvinistic persuasion, and our youth group is of the Assemblies of God, our kids probably wouldn't have had any exposure to such organizations. Perhaps someone can answer your question better here in the forums, someone with experience.

Sorry I couldn't help,

Brother Paul

I really hate to say anything negative at all. I know God will judge me after my words, and I have learnt somewhat to bridle my tongue. That being said, one can only speak what one observes; the product and wares of a system that is publically made known also warrants criticism from a godly perspective. I love Roman Catholics; I despise Roman Catholicism. I love Ron Luce in spirit and hold absolutely no animosity toward him (I've never met him), though I despise the system and philosophy he espouses to impact teens.

Now, I would love to talk about the good fruit -- and I'm sure there is some fruit to mention -- but, unfortunately, getting through such a tough peel can be quite the deterrant. It reminds me of eating crab; I love crabmeat, but the work involved to extract such a tiny portion of meat can be a persuading (or dissuading) factor when deciding what to order on a menu...especially if I am hungry.

I find there's alot of shell to go through with things like ATF, too much shell for the amount of meat you get, and I don't believe there should be any shell at all when it comes to godly ministry.

Youth should be served shell-less meat.

Brother Paul

The blinders come off. They suddenly realize they do not need these lame functions; they discover that quiet time with the Word of God and the Holy Spirit is all they need.

Well put my dear brother, all we need is God the rest is trivial. NO wonder so many are turned from the road that leads to salvation, because they start to loose sight of God and start looking at men and what they have to say instead of what God has to say. God bless

These men love God. John Piper is one the most God fearing men I know of. He is one of pastor that Change my life. In prayer and in a hunger for God. Only thing he teach is truth and Gods word. He is a brother in Christ who loves God very much, and has many life changeing words from God.

As for Passion, when I got saved I went a event called One day. 6 others went with me, as for and a few others it change us for life. It wasn't a whole group of people getting together is all God centered. there was much prayer, godly speakers. They had reading of the word for 24/7 for two days. And we prayed many times together. I can still reminder some of things they spoke on. I think at that time in my life, it hit me hard. I know that these love God, and everything done behind stage is done with honor.
This event has much prayer going into it, I am sure God will use it in many ways in hearts of those going.

I have never been to a passion event,
Don't be quick to judge it, they may have things that are not right, but really was everything at revile conf perfect no. I think are right think about,

Why would you Go? what are looking for?
what is important if you go?
The leaders who run it is that important. If they pray and read, being they live what they preach? If so who are the leaders? Are true to there words? Do act with Honor and honest.
Are they men of prayer, seeking God. Do they fear God and seeking do as he calls?
What role does the leader have in a Event?

If a leader is important, then what are you looking for?

what about how things are ran? is what we are looking at, much money goes into it. Does the money used show if it honors God or not., Or is the way the money is used? There can be pride is the little use of it, or a lot of money.
Is money the thing you look at.

Or is who is worshiping? what if it is big name, then would be they are not honoring God in that time? What make worship honoring to Christ? They prayer and hearts of those leading that time?

What about prayer in the event, does it matter if they prayer before, with others? What if there is little prayer, would that make a difference? What importance id prayer in a event, that you would look for? Or is the heart of those who are praying?

What about those who are speaking, who are they do they fear God? Are going to speak Gods word?

and what is there end goal?

Is things done in honor of God, or is dishonor?
is there honesty and truth or lies?

Lots of question why or why not to go to a conf.
In his love
charlene

Brothers,

the only fire that young people or old people need to aquire is the Holy Spirit sent down from above.

This world's philosophers, its magicians, its entertainers, its con-artists, its seducers, its carnival workers and mind altering-manipulaters, they can all keep their strange fires to themselves.

the only fire that young people or old people need to aquire is the Holy Spirit sent down from above.

Amen. You study the Word and see that true fire [i]comes down[/i], whereas strange fire is [i]offered up[/i]. You'll also see that the fire of God [i]comes down on sacrifices.[/i] A preparation is necessary, a consecration, a laying of the pieces on an altar of offering prior to an expectation of God moving. The Word shows us God's true fire does not come haphazardly, at the behest of empty-handed priests flaunting barren altars.

Also, the sacrifical offering must be one approved by God. A priest couldn't cut up a camel and lay it on the altar and expect the consuming flames of God to fall. A vulture's head couldn't be twisted off in place of a turtledove's. Strange fire, on the other hand, accepts all these kinds of unlawful sacrifices, for it embodies lawlessness, and strange fire will even accept no sacrifice at all.

All that is needed for a profane manifestation in the realm of soul is the right kind of "work-up" device, the right kind of censer and incense and priestly garb and words. The familiar ritual needs to jibe with the authentic. I'm sure Nadab and Abihu invoked the Name of Jehovah in Leviticus 10 as they swung their censers.

Brother Paul, appreciate what you shared!

"true fire comes down"

Brother Paul, appreciate what you shared!

Dear brother, and I thank you for all [i]you[/i] share here. Mike Compton is right; your heart for God is an inspiration to us all, your Christlike demeanor is always refreshing. I count myself blessed to know you in these forums.

Brother Paul

Hi Rookie...

I wrote this in the other thread about this topic.

Six times as both a teen and an adult, I have traveled on missions to the indigenous Tarahumara within the rugged and pine covered mountains of the Sierra Madre Occidental in Chihuahua, Mexico. This was a tremendous experience. However, it was quite a bit of work! We worked from before the sun came up until after the sun went down.

I traveled with a non-denominational minister from Texas. He gathers doctors, carpenters, skilled workers, interpreters and volunteers to travel in either late October/early November or in the summer. It is an exciting time -- and every person is expected to contribute. We are expected to contribute via hard work and in verbal ministry (whether sharing their testimony or one-on-one evangelism).

Each trip usually involves some sort of building project (a church building, a well, a school, a clinic, etc...), medical projects (vaccinations, dental work, etc...), and educational/philanthropic work. Those who go are asked to raise the funds in order to help complete this task. It can cost upwards to several hundred dollars, and we end up "roughing it" in terms of accomidations. I have usually slept on floors or outside (or if you are particularly blessed, inside of a vehicle). There are almost no opportunities for a shower during these 10-14 day trips, and the food is mostly confined to camp food.

I have also gone on several easy "border trips" in Mexico. More times than not, these trips are almost "tourist-like" in nature as they are confined mostly to the poverty regions along the border. We usually are allowed just a little time of evangelism in areas already saturated with the Gospel. While these might have some merit, they aren't exactly my idea of true "ministry" in terms of sharing the Gospel. While those trips are far easier in regard to accomidations and work, I never found them as fulfilling as the more difficult trips into the mountains.

The Tarahumara were so receptive of the Gospel. They literally live in caves high in the mountains and far from normal Mexican civilization. There is no electricity, no running water, and the people live much like they would have a thousand years ago. Most do not speak Spanish, and most have never traveled beyond the rugged mountains that our 4x4s have taken us. They are animists who believe in many different gods. In those difficult trips into Mexico, I have seen many people (including adults and fellow teenagers) who felt that their lives were immeasurably changed by these difficult missionary trips. I know several of the young adults who actually went back and stayed working at these locations for six months!

Anyway, I recommend that you find a good ministry to work with (yes, work with). The tourist-like "quick evangelism excursions" that are often reflective of large "safe" ministries are okay, but I have always found the purpose-intrinsic trips to be far more fulfilling.

:-)

P.S. - I have several friends who have participated with "Global Expeditions." Each of their stories were similar. They complained of an extremely "structured" mission setting with quite a few participants who don't go for the right reasons. Each returned with mixed emotions, complaining that the expedition "could have been better if..."

Brother Chris wrote:

P.S. - I have several friends who have participated with "Global Expeditions." Each of their stories were similar. They complained of an extremely "structured" mission setting with quite a few participants who don't go for the right reasons. Each returned with mixed emotions, complaining that the expedition "could have been better if..."

I have been to men's retreats where this has been true for many also. Yet, in the midst of this frustration I have been grown by God in many ways that I had not anticipated prior to the retreat.

I have been considering sending my son who will be turning 15 in April, to one of these mission trips. We are considering sending him for a month to Peru or Argentina. So it might be good that there is considerable "structure" in place, at least for my son who has never been away from us for more than a 4 days.

Your brother in Christ
Jeff