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Theology

Unelected Children

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Netpreacher May 28, 2004

Before I even attempt to ask this question, which I will assume is not the first time this has been asked, I would like you all to know that my objective is not to argue, debate, or destroy anyone's faith in Christ Jesus; I only want to initiate a lively discussion concerning the scriptural definition of the doctrines of grace. If a child dies at the age of six months, and is not one of the elect, where will that child spend eternity?

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KeithLaMothe May 28, 2004

I've no answer to offer (at this time) to that question, it would require more study than I've done.However, I'm curious about an aspect of the question: "the age of six months." Why 6 months? Why not a year? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? 40 years?I'm trying to figure out if there's an implicit assumption of an "age of accountability" before which we are either not judged according to our works or are not "guilty enough" (for lack of a better term) to deserve hell?Thanks for raising the question, by the way. It's not something important to me personally (I know God will do right, whatever right is) but it's an extremely common question (in somewhat different form) from nonbelievers and new believers.

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InTheLight May 28, 2004

There has been some previous discussions on this board concerning the 'age of accountability' and 'original sin', here is a link; Age of AccountabilityThe thread above contains a link to the 'original sin' thread.In Christ,Ron

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jeremyhulsey May 28, 2004

If a child dies at the age of six months, and is not one of the elect, where will that child spend eternity?Well, from a Calvinistic point of view, if a person is not one of the elect then it doesn't matter if he's 6 months or 600 years old, he will go to hell.Now from an Arminiast position, all are potentially apart of the elect and there is much speculation on when one becomes accoutable for their actions. So in that respect, since the Bible is silent, as far as I know, I would have to say, "I don't know."In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

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rocklife May 28, 2004

God is merciful, just, righteous, and loving. Whatever He does is right. I don't know the answer to this question, but God is always right in His judgment.

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Nasher May 28, 2004

Hi Netpreacher, please tell me what sin(s) a 6 month old child can commit?

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dougkristen May 28, 2004

We had to ask this questions many times before 5 years ago when my wife was pregnant and in her 38th week, our son Isaiah died before he was born (stilborn). Is he with the Lord or going to hell? I have heard sincere Christian friends tell me to my wife and I both. Grace,DougHis Ways are much higher than mine...

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5nva May 28, 2004

Netpreacher:I do not know of any scripture that really answers this question. I would have to say I am in the same boat as Hulsey said. I for one do not believe in the calvanistic doctrine of election so my opinion a baby goes to be with the Lord. It is up to God though. However, Jesus said "let the little children come unto me".My wife and I have had four children die after being born. They were not still births, they were breathing living babies that had complications and only lived a short time. We held them, loved them and prayed that God would intervene and let them live. For what ever reason God chose in His sovereignty not to let them live. My wife and I trust that our children Grace, Ashton and twins Rachel and Benjamin are with our Lord and Savior.In Christ,Mike

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Matthew2323 May 28, 2004

Consider the words of King David.He said, "While the child was {still} alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, 'Who knows, the LORD may be gracious to me, that the child may live.' "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."2 Samuel 12:22-23For those parents please note all throughout Scripture how God is faithful to families.For the LORD is good; His lovingkindness is everlasting And His faithfulness to all generations.Psalm 100:5. . .but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.Exodus 20:6God bless,Matthew

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Netpreacher Jun 4, 2004

It seems this board likes to tread lightly on issues they do not believe Scripture plainly reveals. This is a strong point, and I congratulate all those who responed with dignity, respect, honor, and meekness; truly these qualities alone reveal your characters loudly.The Scriptures reveal to us concerning the fate of children when they die. Jesus tells us many places in the Gospels to allow little children to come to Him, for the Kingdom of God is made for them. In order to even enter the Kingdom, you must become like a child. This tells me that all children, regardless of religious background, will be in heaven.Now, concerning the question of "age of accountability," there are no clear references or passages in Scripture that even declare the doctrine of this "age," nor can I truly find anything to refute it either. However, from what I have been taught (not from God, but from man, whatever this may be worth) and believe that once a child receives an order they purposely disobey, or receives a law from either conscience or parent or authority figure that they consciously disobey, disregarding consequences for the sake of personal satisfaction or other individual's sake, they have committed sin and are found guilty before God, by which they will then need at least the atoning sacrifice of Christ for the remission of sins acted. All children require the second Adam's sacrifice for the atonement of the Adamic curse of death, however, Jesus Christ's death on the cross is only effectual for sins only when they are committed. Now, I understand this may sound Pelagian, but I do believe that children still need the sacrifice of Christ in order to deal with the curse of Adam; I do believe also that the sacrifice of Christ for the remission of sins can only take place once sins have been actually committed. Sin is the trangression of the law, and where there is no law, then there is no sin; therefore, if a child does not comprehend law, then that child cannot consciously act against that law. However, the law of God is written upon our hearts; whether this is done at birth or not, I do not know: if so, then my whole belief system must be escorted out the door of my heart and be replaced by the truth of the word of God as revealed by His Spirit (for of no private interpretation can any Scripture be read). If there is no law, then there is no sin; a child by nature will tend towards disobedience if left to itself, so law naturally will bring them to Christ, and if they disobey that law willfully, then the law has done its job, bringing guilt and condemnation upon the child once the understanding of guilt and sin has been revealed, which now requires the use of a Savior. Can a child live without sin its entire life? Of course not; nothing on earth can do that, except for a virgin birth, which already has been accomplished. Hopefully, I have answered any contentions that might arise from such a response, and if I may have left anything out, I am absolutely sure I will be notified as soon as this is posted. Praise the LORD Jesus Christ, the risen Son of God!Love, In Christ Jesus,DannyPS Pelagius is a heretic with a crooked view of redemption; all have sinned and fallen short, and the response is to the question of the period of when the actual age of accountability begins, which my answer would be, "The age of accountabiliy begins at the time whenever the child willfully disobeys a clear command given by God, parent, or other authority figure regardless of consequence."

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seekinggod Jun 4, 2004

Lets try selfishness. Putting anything before God is wrong, no?Baby cries because it wants to be fed, changed, and given attention straight from the womb. These self serving actions are sin.If it is not of God, it comes from "self". Self is sin. Selfishness is sin. We all sin straight from the womb. Non-Christians call a baby's instincts as self-preservation. As an adult, if I put myself first in the same vein that babies do, you would agree with me that I am sinning.

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Netpreacher Jun 5, 2004

Well, Jesus said that we should be content with food and raiment. If we do not have these things, and we are discontent, I believe Jesus grants us the grace to attempt to pursue these things. However, I am also aware of the Scripture that tells us not to look for food and raiment, but to seek first the Kingdom of God. Are we to hold a child accountable to seek after God even when they are unable to know their own name?

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5nva Jun 7, 2004

Seekinggod, you said "Baby cries because it wants to be fed, changed, and given attention straight from the womb. These self serving actions are sin."I think that is a very hasty thing to say. A baby can be crying to let the parents know something is wrong with them. They need to eat is not being selfish. Wanting to have the diaper changed because it is burning their bottom is not selfishness. Wanting mom or dad to hold or comfort them is not selfishness. If these things are selfishness to a helpless baby then our cries of need, help, despair, ect. to our sweet, loving, patient and compassionate Lord Jesus Christ are selfishness.I would encourage you to really consider what it means to be selfish.Sincerely in Christ,Mike

sermonindex Jun 19, 2004

Good word! I'm a 5 point Calvanist and to read such foolishness that a baby can "show sin" ...is, well, foolish!Calvin HIMSELF taught that to say a baby is "unsaved" is BLASPHEMY.Most don't know that, yet that IS what we believe.Babies show sin?Scripture please?Thought so.GBU.(Careful whatcha say 'bout these little ones; remember what Jesus said about coming against chaildren)Daniel

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