We May Suffer Now but ~

[b]Quote:

[i]We suffer now, but...

OUR SUFFERING WILL END [/b]

Therefore you now have sorrow; but I will see you again and your heart will rejoice, and your joy no one will take from you. (John 16:22)

What the Bible says - Reasons for our suffering - Our proper response - Old Testament only

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS (click on the underlined verses to read them on Site below)

The earth will pass away. Rev 21:1-4, 1 Jn 2:15-17 (see also The Earth will be destroyed).

We are only a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes. James 4:13-17, Ps 39:5-7

The things we see now (this world) are temporary, while the things we do not see are eternal. 2 Cor 4:16-18

In the world we will have trouble, but take heart because He has overcome the world. Jn 16:33

Life is like childbirth – pain while on earth turns to joy when we see Jesus. Jn 16:20-22

The suffering of this present earth are not worthy to be compared with the future glory. Rom 8:15-26

After we suffer, God will restore us and make us strong, firm and steadfast. 1 Peter 5:8-11

When suffering, our confidence of a better and enduring possession in heaven will be richly rewarded. Heb 10:34-39

We are suffering now for the kingdom of God. 2 Thes 1:5-7

We groan waiting for our adoption. Romans 8:23-25

We will be glad with exceeding joy (if we suffered for Him). 1 Pet 4:12-15

REASONS FOR OUR SUFFERING

We suffer now so that our faith, of greater worth than gold, may be proved genuine and result in praise, glory and honor. 1 Peter 1:3-9

Sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation. It also produces other godly characteristics. 2 Cor 7:9-11

Ultimately, if we partake in Christ's suffering, our suffering will bring exceeding joy. 1 Pet 4:12-15

Suffering occurs so that we might trust in God and not ourselves. 2 Co 1:8-11

Suffering keeps us humble and lets God's strength work in us. 2 Cor 12:7-10

We suffer so that we can comfort others. 2 Cor 1:3-7

Our current light affliction is working for us a more eternal weight of glory. 2 Cor 4:16-18

God's discipline here is painful, but it reaps later rewards. Heb 12:7-11

Our suffering now is evidence of the righteousness of God's judgment later when he takes vengeance justly. 2 Thes 1:4-10

We are obligated to suffer for Christ. Php 1:29-30

We are promised to suffer persecution. 2 Tim 3:12-13

OUR PROPER RESPONSE

We should be patient for the Lord's return (like a farmer waits for rain), and we should strengthen and stabilize our hearts for the Lord's return. James 5:7-11

We should not lose heart while fixing our eyes on eternal things and knowing that the troubles we have are only momentary. 2 Cor 4:16-18

We should be sober, diligent, resist the devil (steadfast in the faith), knowing that we are not alone in our sufferings. 1 Peter 5:8-11

We should bear Jesus' reproach while we seek the city that is to come. Heb 13:12-14

We should be faithful during our suffering (even to death), and He will give us life. Revelation 2:10

Examples of patience: A farmer, the prophets and Job. In the end, the Lord is compassionate and merciful to those who trust Him. James 5:7-11

We should remember the suffering Jesus endured from others - and for us. Heb 12:3 (See Christ's Example)

OLD TESTAMENT ONLY

We are only a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Ps 39:5-7 [/i]

[b]Quote:

[i]Some people are cruel, but...

LET GOD JUDGE AND TAKE VENGEANCE [/b]

It is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven. (2 Thes 1:6-7)

What the Bible says - You still must love them - Our proper response - Examples - Old Testament only

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS (click on the underlined verses to read them on site below)

Vengeance is for the Lord to give. We should rather show love to our enemies. Rom 12:17-21

God understands the terrible wickedness of people, and He will take vengeance. Ps 94:1-23

God preserves the faithful, and fully repays the proud. Ps 31:23-24

The only way to understand injustice is with an eternal Godly perspective. Ps 73:12-20

In God's perspective, a person's life is very short, and then comes judgment. Ps 90:3-12

God will judge and take vengeance on those who trouble you and those that do not know Him. 2 Thes 1:5-10

Our suffering now is evidence of the righteousness of God's judgment later when he takes vengeance justly. 2 Thes 1:4-10

All people will die once and then face judgment. Heb 9:27-28

People's days are like a flower - it flourishes, then is blown away. Isaiah 40:5-8 , Ps 103:15-22

Men and their glory will wither away like the grass. 1 Peter 1:22-25, James 1:9-11

God will judge the people. The wicked will be eaten. Isaiah 51:5-8

God will make a sudden end of all who sin at the great day of the Lord. Zeph 1:17-18

The wicked will be cut off. Ps 37:32-40

At the Messiah's coming, He will burn his enemies . Psalms 97:1-6

The promised Messiah will strike the earth and slay the wicked. Isaiah 11:1-5

Even those in Heaven are told to wait for God's judgment and vengeance. Re 6:11

[b]OUR PROPER RESPONSE[/b]

We should show love to our enemies. Vengeance is for the Lord to give. Rom 12:17-21 (See Love)

We should remember the suffering Jesus endured from others - and for us. Heb 12:3 (see examples)

We should not rejoice when our enemy has problems. It is for God to deal with wrath. Pr 24:17-20

We should give to our enemy when there is a need and let God take care of rewards and punishment. Pr 25:22

We should bless those who persecute us. Rom 12:14

We should seek the Lord, as well as righteousness and humility - then we may be safe in the day of God's anger. Zeph 2:1-3

We should wait on the Lord and trust Him. Ps 37:18-40

We should not fear the wicked. Ps 49:5-9

We should not fear the reproach of men or their insults. Isaiah 51:5-8

When we suffer, we should commit our souls to God, the Judge, in doing good. 1 Pe 4:19

EXAMPLES

We should follow Christ's example of not retaliating and committing Himself to Him who judges. 1 Pe 2:21-25

Jesus was oppressed and afflicted - yet He did not open His mouth. Is 53:7-10 (Read how Jesus suffered: Mt 27:27-31, Lk 22:41-44 , Jn 19:17, Is 53:1-12 )

Even when dying, Jesus' heart was loving toward His enemies. Lk 23:33-36

Steven, also, when he was being stoned was loving toward his persecutors. Ac 7:59-60

Jeremiah was mocked and persecuted, yet he knew that God would carry out His vengeance. Jer 20:7-13

David had many enemies. He was silent and prayed and put his hope in the Lord. Ps 38:12-22

Even when David loved his enemies, they hated him. David responded with prayer. Ps 110:1-7

Example of David's prayer: Asking for mercy, praising God, and trusting that God would deliver him from his enemies. Ps 110:25-31

David had many tears because of his enemies. When he was afraid, he trusted in God and praised Him. Ps 56:2-11

David waited silently for God alone who was his rock, defense, refuge and salvation. Ps 62:1-12

OLD TESTAMENT ONLY

God understands the terrible wickedness of people, and He will take vengeance. Ps 94:1-23

God preserves the faithful, and fully repays the proud. Ps 31:23-24

The only way to understand injustice is with an eternal Godly perspective. Ps 73:12-20

In God's perspective, a person's life is very short, and then comes judgment. Ps 90:3-12

People's days are like a flower - it flourishes, then is blown away. Isaiah 40:5-8 , Ps 103:15-22

God will judge the people. The wicked will be eaten. Isaiah 51:5-8

God will make a sudden end of all who sin at the great day of the Lord. Zeph 1:17-18

The wicked will be cut off. Ps 37:32-40

At the Messiah's coming, He will burn his enemies. Psalms 97:1-6

The promised Messiah will strike the earth and slay the wicked. Isaiah 11:1-5

We should not rejoice when our enemy has problems. It is for God to deal with wrath. Pr 24:17-20

We should give to our enemy when there is a need and let God take care of rewards and punishment. Pr 25:22

We should seek the Lord, as well as righteousness and humility - then we may be safe in the day of God's anger. Zeph 2:1-3

We should wait on the Lord and trust Him. Ps 37:18-40

We should not fear the wicked. Ps 49:5-15

We should not fear the reproach of men or their insults. Isaiah 51:5-8

Jesus was oppressed and afflicted - yet He did not open His mouth. Is 53:7-10

Jeremiah was mocked and persecuted, yet he knew that God would carry out His vengeance. Jer 20:7-13

David had many enemies. He was silent and prayed and put his hope in the Lord. Ps 38:12 -22

Even when David loved his enemies, they hated him. David responded with prayer. Ps 110:1-7

Example of David's prayer: Asking for mercy, praising God, and trusting that God will deliver him from his enemies. Ps 110:25-31

David had many tears because of his enemies. When he was afraid, he trusted in God and praised Him. Ps 56:2-11

David waited silently for God alone who was his rock, defense, refuge and salvation. Ps 62:1-12 [/i]

[url=http://crossroad.to/heaven/]More Shalom in Suffering[/url]

Shalom~Shalom !

LORD Bless you Eddie.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=20525&forum=45&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0][b]Where else could we go?[/b][/url]

Thank you for this book Pastor. It [i]is[/i] incredible.

Thank you Pastorfrin. That is an incredible book.

[b]November 26th Devotional Sermon by George H. Morrison

"The Anguish of the Light"

[i]But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions[/i] Heb_10:32

Battle After Illumination[/b]

"This is a very remarkable conclusion to a verse that suggests the blessings of the light: it is one of those suggestive anticlimaxes that are so familiar to students of the Scriptures. No blessing is nobler than illumination. It tells of the benediction of the light. It speaks of a life that has arisen from darkness and moved into the glorious shining of the sun. And yet, when we expect to hear of summer's gladness and to catch the sound of music in the blue heaven, we hear of battle with its blood and misery and the cry and agony of wounded men. After illumination a great joy? We should have looked for some conclusion such as that. After illumination a great sense of liberty and a peace that the world cannot take away? Scripture does not deny these blessed consequences, but in its splendid fidelity to all experience it says that after illumination may come battle.

[b]Illumination of the Intellect[/b]

Think first then of the illumination of the intellect and of all that follows on the light of knowledge. That is not always liberty and power: sometimes a conflict which is very terrible ensues. When Eve in the virgin paradise of God ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, her eyes were opened and she was illuminated with the light that never was on sea or land; and yet that light did not bring peace to Eve, neither gladness nor any rest of heart, but only the sorrow of a weary struggle. The more we know, the more we want to know. The more we know, the more we cannot know. And doubts are born and speculations rise and much that once seemed certain grows unstable until at last, wearied and perplexed, not through the power of darkness but of light, a man begins to realize how grim is the struggle that succeeds illumination.

Nor is that consequence less notable in the lesser field of personal experience. There are those who can recall the struggle that followed the clear shining of the light. Take for instance a young man, a student, who has been trained in a pious home. There he accepted without serious questioning the faith of his father and mother. Their character commended it to him—he saw it lived and therefore felt it true—and in a faith that never had been shaken, he joined in worship and bowed his knee in prayer. There are many who never lose that childhood's faith. They grow as the lily and spread their roots as Lebanon. It is no necessary witness of superiority that a man should have come to his own by way of agony. But often, with ail that light of knowledge which the years bring to most of us today, there falls a different story to be written. Illumination comes by what we read; it flashes upon us in our college lectures. And the world is different and God and man are different from all that we cherished in our childhood's days. And then begins that time of stress and strain, so bitter and yet so infinitely blessed, through which a man must fight his way alone to faith and peace and character and God. There is a strife that is nobler than repose. There is a battle more blessed than quiescence. There is a stress and strain which comes when God arises and cries to a heart "Let there be light." All which, so modern that it seems but yesterday, is yet so old that Scripture understands it, hinting not vaguely in our text of the struggle that succeeds illumination.

[b]Illumination of the Heart[/b]

Think next of the illumination of the heart. The illumination of the heart is Love. Just as the light of the intellect is truth, so the light of every heart is love. Without love the heart is always dark, and with love the heart is always light. The commonest dwelling becomes a palace with it, and there is sunshine for the dreariest day. And all the wealth and joy of fame and whirl of fashion can never irradiate this heart of ours like love. He who dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and he who dwelleth in God is in the light. The luster of the heart is always there, but it is unlighted until love comes in. And now call to remembrance the former days in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions. Many years ago some of you mothers here gathered your firstborn child into your arms, and there was such gladness in those eyes of yours that every neighbor saw your life illuminated. And now as you look back upon it all and think of all that has come and gone since then, you know the sorrows that have followed love. What sleepless nights—what hours of weary watching—what seasons of agony when death was near! What struggle to do that which was hard to do when wills were rebellious and lips untruthful. All this has followed the illumination that came when the love of motherhood was born, and all this is the anguish of the light. Let a man love his work, and in that light he shall be led to many a weary wrestling. Let a man love his land, and in that light he shall take up burdens that are not easily borne. Let a man love his risen and living Savior, and in that light his life shall be a battlefield as he wrestles daily not with flesh and blood but with the principalities and powers of darkness. Love has its triumphs, but it has its tortures. Love has its paradise and it has its purgatory. Love has its mountains of transfiguration, and its olive gardens where the sweat is blood. Love is the secret of the sweetest song that ever was uttered by human lips, and love is the secret of the keenest suffering that ever pierced the heart.

[b]lllumination of the Will[/b]

Then observe how true this is of the illumination of the will. For our will like our intellect has its great hours when in the light of heaven we see light. It may be we had been groping in the darkness not seeing clearly what our duty was. And choice was difficult, so much depended on it: there was so much to win, so much to lose. And then it may be in one radiant hour never to be forgotten through the years, we heard as it were a voice behind us saying, "This is the way: walk ye in it." Very probably we had prayed about it, for it is in such seasons that men learn to pray. We cried, "It is not in man that walketh to direct his steps: Lord, lead me, for I know not which way is best." And then, perhaps by some word from friendly lips or by some providence or disappointment, clear as the sun shining in the heavens we saw what for us must be the path of duty. Such hours of high and resolute decision are among the greatest hours of human life. There is not a power or faculty we have that is not illuminated by the glory of them. And yet the struggle and torment that preceded them when we were stumbling and groping towards a decision may not be half so terrible and searching as the struggle and the strain that follow after. Never are things renounced so sweet to man as in the season when they are renounced. Never is the alternative so winning as in the hour when it has been rejected. Never do things given up appeal to us so sweetly and so subtly and so secretly as in the season when we have turned our back upon them and set our faces bravely toward the dawn. The most difficult task in life is not to win; the most difficult task is to keep what we have won: never to falter from the verdict of our high and radiant hours when the shadows deepen, never to go back on our decisions, never to listen again to any voices which in our worthiest and purest moments we knew to be the voices of the enemy. That is the reason why all great decisions ought to be reinforced by prayer.

There is no weapon on earth like prayer for helping us to keep what we have won. For prayer unites us to the living Christ, touches the vilest of us with the touch of heaven, and brings to our aid that power of perfect living which was witnessed long ago in Galilee. Tasks in hours of insight willed must be through days of gloom fulfilled, but in the gloomiest day a man may lift his heart up and draw for his need out of the grace of Jesus.

[b]Illumination of Conscience[/b]

And in closing I want you to take our text in regard to the illumination of the conscience. Do you remember when conscience was illuminated what a great fight of afflictions you endured? That may have happened many years ago when you were young and ardent and impressionable, and yet so unsearchable are the ways of God that perhaps it is happening to some of you now, after many prayerless, careless, and hardening years. You recall how David after a great sin hardened his heart and justified himself. And then by the word of Nathan the prophet there flashed on his conscience the light of a holy God. Whereupon that mighty soul, after he was illuminated, broke out into that penitential agony which has come ringing down the ages and shall ring on forever: "Create within me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow." That is not the crying of despair nor of the soul that has forfeited the everlasting mercy: it is the eternal crying of the human conscience that has been irradiated by the light of God.

My brother and sister, if God has so come to you, He will never leave you nor forsake you. He has a purpose of peace towards your soul that has been destined from the bosom of eternity. He has begun His saving work in you which only awaits the fullness of response to result in the blessedness of power and in the rest and liberty of heaven."

Again, Thank you pastorfrin for this website. Have learned a great deal of [i]why[/i] they were persecuted and how they have been misrepresented since and sometimes by their supposed own, and what we have in common with them, owe to them, and more - [i]will have in common with them[/i] in the end.

Snippets from [url=http://www.bibleviews.com/evenuntodeath.html][b]Even Unto Death[/b][/url]

"Grebel and his friends now faced a crisis. They were officially forbidden to hold any more Bible study meetings. What should they do? They met together quietly that Saturday night, January 21, 1525, to think and pray and deliberate. An account of this meeting has been preserved in a sixteenth-century Anabaptist tome, The Oldest Chronicle of the Hutterian Brethren, the account probably having its source in a participant, George Blaurock. The group evidently came together to discuss how best to cope with the latest mandate of the Council. The Chronicle reports that "anxious fear" came upon them, and they were "moved in their hearts." Thereupon they knelt in prayer and called upon God to "enable them to do His divine will." An amazing scene then transpired. Following the prayer, George Blaurock, a former priest from the Swiss canton of Grisons, stepped up to Conrad Grebel, whom the group recognized as its natural leader, and asked for baptism. Blaurock knelt before Grebel and was baptized forthwith! The Chronicle rather naïvely explains that "at that time there was no ordained minister to perform such work." The others then asked George Blaurock to baptize them, which he did at once. Perhaps even more astonishing is the report: "Each ordained the other to the ministry of the Gospel." Thus the mandate which was intended to suppress forever the minority party which agitated for a free church, led instead to the actual establishment of the first free church! The die was cast, and Grebel either had to yield to what he felt was a mandate which violated his conscience, or defy the Zurich Council in the name of Christ. As a Christian he felt that he had no choice but to follow the Apostles of old and "obey God rather than men."

Grebel's immediate concern, of course, remained the abolition of the Mass, for he saw no possibility of moving forward to the establishment of a truly New Testament church until the central papal ceremony was abolished. His deepest longing was to witness the creation of a free church of converted disciples such as one finds in the first-century Acts of the Apostles.

With the exception of Grebel, who died of the plague before the executioner was able to do away with him, most of the early leaders were executed for the "crime" of practicing the baptism of adults, and for setting up free churches, that is, congregations which were not a part of a state or territorial church. State churches were established by civil law as the required religion of the territory.

George Blaurock, Evangelist - The first man baptized by Conrad Grebel on January 21, 1525. On August 24,1529 he was severely tortured, and on September 6 burned at the stake. He was executed on a fivefold charge: (1) he left the priesthood, (2) taught against infant baptism, (3) repudiated the Mass, (4) rejected the confessional, and (5) taught that people should not pray to Mary the mother of Christ. It has been estimated that he won a thousand converts in the short period of his evangelistic career.

The Anabaptists have often been accused of legalism, of being weak on the doctrine of justification by faith, of having a low view of grace. The fact is that they asserted the New Testament doctrine of salvation by faith alone in the very strongest terms. Ponder this gem from Menno Simons's Confession of the Distressed Christians, 1552:

Think not, beloved reader, that we boast of being perfect and without sins. Not at all. As for me I confess that often my prayer is mixed with sin and my righteousness with unrighteousness; for by the grace of God I feel (if I but observe the anointing which is in me) when I compare my weak nature to Christ and His commandment, what kind of flesh I have inherited from Adam. If God should judge us according to our deserts and not according to His great goodness and mercy, then I confess with the holy David that no man could stand before His judgment. . . . Therefore it should be far from us that we should comfort ourselves with anything but the grace of God through Christ Jesus. For He it is and He alone and none other who has perfectly fulfilled the righteousness required by God. . . . For Christ's sake we are in grace; for His sake we are heard; and for His sake our faults and failings which are committed against our will are remitted. For it is He who stands between His Father and His imperfect children with His perfect righteousness, and with His innocent blood and death, and intercedes for all those who believe on Him. . . .

Notice, my dear reader, that we do not believe nor teach that we are to be saved by our merits and works. . . .[4]

In The True Christian Faith, Menno explained:

All the truly regenerated and spiritually minded conform in all things to the Word and ordinances of the Lord. Not because they think to merit the atonement of their sins and eternal life. By no means. In this matter they depend upon nothing except the true promise of the merciful Father, given in grace to all believers through the blood and merits of Christ . . . a truly believing Christian is thus minded that he will not do otherwise than that which the Word of the Lord teaches and enjoins. . . .5

I have read recently that they write that there is but one good work which saves us, namely faith; and but one sin that will damn us, namely unbelief. I will let this pass with out finding fault, for where there is a genuine, true faith there also are all manner of genuine, good fruits. On the other hand, where there is unbelief there also are all manner of evil fruits. Therefore salvation is properly ascribed to faith, and damnation to unbelief.[6]

The true evangelical faith which makes the heart upright and pious before God moves, changes, urges, and constrains a man so that he will always hate the evil and gladly do the things which are right and good. . . . It is unnecessary to admonish or warn those who sincerely believe that the wages of sin is death, that drunkards, liars, fornicators, adulterers, the avaricious, idolators, those who despise God, hate, shed blood, swear falsely, steal, etc., shall not inherit the kingdom of Christ. . . . For their faith which is sealed unto them by the Spirit through the Word teaches them that the end thereof is death.[7]

Menno placed on the title page of each of his books, "For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

The Anabaptists first of all looked at the moral and spiritual level of the populations about them and pronounced them as for the most part in need of evangelism. Such people are not born again, they declared; they are lost. They imagine that they are Christians because as infants they were baptized but they give no evidence of new life in Christ. "They console them selves," declared Thomas von Imbroich, "only with this, namely, 'I am a Christian; for I am baptized.' Thus they speak, thinking that it is sufficient if one is only baptized; but they know little what baptism signifies. For they have not yet drank of the living fountain. . . .

In the second place, the Anabaptists denied the right of any ruler to determine the faith of his subjects. For them, only Christ was the Lord of the conscience.22 No man dared to step into the sacred realm of faith to specify what other men should believe, be he judge, ruler, king, or emperor. The Anabaptists wanted to follow the Scriptures as closely as God gave them grace. But in attempting to do so they ran straight into the hands of the law, for Anabaptism was made a capital crime in one land after another.[23]In his Foundation Menno Simons protested to the civil authorities:

But the reviling, betraying, and agitation of the priests and your unmerciful mandates and edicts must be our scriptures, and your rackers, hangmen, wrath, torture chambers, water and stake, fire and sword (O God) must be our instructors and teachers, to whom we sorrowful children must listen in many places, and finally make good with our possessions and lifeblood. . . . This I know for certain, that all bloodthirsty preachers and all rulers who propose and practise these things are not Christ's disciples. The hour of accounting when you depart this life will teach you the truth.[24]

Finally, the Anabaptists declared that no ruler had the right to hinder the free teaching of God's Word. Since the whole state church system was an unscriptural and unfortunate arrangement, so far as they were concerned, they cared nothing at all for any sort of state recognition of their clergy. Indeed, although they did choose and ordain deacons, preachers, and elders (bishops), they made little difference between the ordained and the unordained; all members were expected to be born-again witnesses of Jesus Christ, authorized by him to tell the Good News of salvation from sin through Jesus Christ. Because of their doctrine of nonresistance they tended to arouse suspicion when they traveled without arms, especially without the common sword or rapier. Then when they refused to set up drinks in inns, and when they ventured to speak a word to a stranger about the salvation of his soul, and when they bowed their heads in silent prayer at the beginning and end of their meals, someone was sure to summon the authorities with the report that the Anabaptist sectarians had arrived. In many cases they were summarily executed, even without a formal trial. Thus they continued to go out as sheep in the midst of wolves, seeking for those who were willing to amend their lives and live according to the Word of Christ, even though large numbers of their members were imprisoned, tortured, drowned, beheaded, strangled, and burned."

Bottonline: [i]Soli Deo Gloria![/i]