Why does a Christian still commit sins?

Why does a Christian still commit sins?Some people may say "it's because we're still human", don't forget - Jesus was human!

Don't forget though, Jesus was also 100% God. Why do I still commit sins? Partly because it is my nature to do so. My flesh is so evil, so full of sin that it knows how to do nothing else. Continually through out scripture, we are urged to "set our mind on things above" "setting our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfector of our faith, casting aside every weight which hold us down." I sin most when my mind is not set on things above. When I turn my focus off of the Lord and onto my flesh. Paul says in Romans that "the mind set on the flesh is enemies with God." A classic definition of sin is to miss the mark. I miss the mark when I lose my focus on the Father and the Cross.

Why do I still commit sins? Partly because it is my nature to do so.Is not the old nature / man crucified with Christ?

"missing the mark" may be a common definition of sin (sin being an archery term meaning that, before it was chosen in translating the Hebrew and Greek), but is it a Biblical definition?I think the definition of sin has a thread somewhere around here, but I thought I'd bring up the verses that I think help:Doubtful action:Romans 14:23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not from faith; for whatsoever is not from faith is sin.Failure to do right:James 4:17Therefore to him that knoweth how to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin.Transgression of the Law (it's actually a kind of reverse definintion, but still):1 John 3:4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law.All unrighteousness (and how do we define unrighteousness?):1 John 5:17All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death.As for "why do Christians sin?" Well, we're all still tempted (as Jesus was, and as James made clear that every man is), and the sources of those temptations might be categorized as: the flesh, the world, and the devil.Interesting question about why the flesh should have any influence, being crucified, but it would appear that the congenital depravity inherited from Adam does not entirely disappear upon conversion. I think some forms of the doctrine of Entire Sanctification include a total purging of this source of temptation.Anyway, being tempted is not sin, failing to refuse the temptation is. Why do Christians do that? The weaknesses and temptations do not force them to do so, and God makes a way of escape with each temptation (1 Cor. 10:13), so they can avoid sinning. Nonetheless, sometimes we get back into that old self-centered mode and sin.Why? I suppose because we want to. May we never want to.God be with us,-Keith

Hi Nasher,I feel you are like myself and others who are thoroughly sick and tired of sin. Some would argue that the 'old man' is crucified with Christ, but the 'old nature' (GK. sarx 'flesh') still remains. The 'old man' is your 'old self' who existed when you were dead in trespasses in sins. That person is crucified with Christ. Does the sin nature remain though? I would argue- yes. Some would argue no. I would argue 'yes' based upon many passages in the epistles that warn us not to sow to the 'flesh'- lest we reap corruption.As the debate on this topic opens again I would like to focus on the necessity of dying both to the 'law of Moses' AND the 'law of sin' which is in our members. Dying to both is the necessity. To be dead to sin is to be dead both to the law and the law of sin. Romans 7 and 8 deal with this issue. The law only has the ability to give our sin nature something to rebel against- though it is holy and just and good. For example: Why would a human being that is lazy by nature ever rebel against God when He commands that everyone in Israel must REST one day a week? Answer: Because God commanded it. It gives the sin nature something to rebel against- even if the commandment would have well pleased the 'flesh' (sin nature) to rest, it pleased the 'flesh' MORE to rebel against God. If we simply die only to the law and not the law of sin- we have erred into antinomianism. Getting together with saints who truly love the Lord and trying to submit to the Holy Spirit for understanding will help us all press ever more towards the 'mark' of perfection. Bro Ron Bailey has started a thread on Christian Perfection in the Church History section that will help us all sort these issues out theologically.In the mean time... lay aside every weight that is allowing the enemy to trip you up. Psalm 101 is the key here. Exercise your senses by not allowing the enemy to sow seeds of sin into your eyes and ears and other senses that conceive and bring forth sin. Take the way of escape when the Lord makes it. Remember, even Eve sinned without a sin nature. So did Adam. The enemy will draw your attention to forbidden things and then start lying to you. He does this with thoughts. If we do not bring every thought into captivity- the enemy will build those thoughts into imaginations (arguments) by subduing your conscience with lies. The conscience and the Holy Spirit are quenched off with lies. Just listen to your thoughts the next time a sinful thought popps in your head. The conscience rises up and the enemy has already precursered the sinful thought with an accompanying lie to numb the conscience. If that lie don't work- he sends the thought again with another lie. He will keep this up until you believe the lie and allow that thought to run loose. This happens over and over with more thoughts and lies until the enemy has built up imaginations (NIV arguments) against the commandment of God. They are NOT random thoughts and arguments either. They are 'wiles' (GK. methodia) designed for a purpose. They work together to form a formula for your fall into sin. These arguments can become so deceptive that they have become a stronghold (II Corinthians 10:4). What are the buildingblocks of strongholds? They are thoughts that are disobedient to the commandments of Christ that we do not take captive. We must keep these things out one 'brick' (thought) at a time. God Bless,-Robert

"Is not the old nature / man crucified with Christ?"The old man was; the old nature wasn’t. “Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, in order that the body of sin might be idled, (rendered useless, become of no effect), that henceforth we should not serve sin” Romans 6:6 [“idled” – like an automobile when the clutch is disengaged]My old nature, regrettably, is very much alive.

I’ve found Andrew Murray’s illustration of the ferocious lion with it’s keeper very useful. (However the whole process involves ABIDING by faith in a very real crucified, risen, ascended, glorified and living,Christ.)“But how is it possible that a believer, having sin in him-sin of such intense vitality, and such terrible power as we know the flesh to have-that a believer having sin should yet not be doing sin? The answer is: "In Him is no sin. He that abideth in Him sinneth not” (1 John 3:5b,6a). When the abiding in Christ becomes close and unbroken, so that the soul lives from moment to moment in the perfect union with the Lord its keeper, He does, indeed, keep down the power of the old nature, so that it does not regain dominion over the soul. We have seen that there are degrees in the abiding. With most Christians the abiding is so feeble and intermittent, that sin continually obtains the ascendency, and brings the soul into subjection. The divine promise given to faith is: "Sin shall not have dominion over you." But with the promise is the command: "Let not sin reign in your mortal body." The believer who claims the promise in full faith has the power to obey the command, and sin is kept from asserting its supremacy. Ignorance of the promise, or unbelief, or unwatchfulness, opens the door for sin to reign. And so the life of many believers is a course of continual stumbling and sinning. But when the believer seeks full admission into, and a permanent abode in Jesus, the Sinless One, then the life of Christ keeps from actual transgression. "In Him is no sin. He that abideth in Him sinneth not. " Jesus does indeed save him from his sin-not by the removal of his sinful nature, but by keeping him from yielding to it.”I have read of a young lion whom nothing could awe or keep down but the eye of his keeper. With the keeper you could come near him, and he would crouch, his savage nature all unchanged, and thirsting for blood -trembling at the keeper's feet. You might put your foot on his neck, as long as the keeper was with you. To approach him without the keeper would be instant death. And so it is that the believer can have sin and yet not do sin. The evil nature, the flesh, is unchanged in its enmity against God, but the abiding presence of Jesus keeps it down. In faith the believer entrusts himself to the keeping, to the indwelling, of the Son of God; he abides in Him, and counts on Jesus to abide in Him too. The union and fellowship is the secret of a holy life: "In Him is no sin; he that abideth in Him sinneth not”.”Excerpt from Abide in Christ: That You May Not Sin – Andrew MurrayRoger

The old man was; the old nature wasn’t.I like the way Watchamn Nee explains it. It really helped me "see".The Blood deals with our sin (what we have done), whereas the Cross deals with what we are. The Blood disposes of our sins, while the Cross strikes at the root of our capacity for sin.There is a difference between our 'sin' and our old nature that we were born into- "sinner", our Adam nature."I appreciate the blessed fact of God's forgivneness, but I want deliverance. I need forgiveness for what I have done, but I need also deliverance from what I am."This is why it is so important for people to realize that unless they "die" to self every day and carry their cross every day they will continue to FIGHT against sin with hardly any accomplishment.Dying to self every day is the key. That He may be increased and we are decreased!It is so simple but everyone trys to make it so complicated. So many people cannot overcome their sin and bondage because they are dealing with it in the wrong way.I recommend "The Normal Christian Life" for this subject. :-) (Edit: Abide in Christ is excellent too!)

Nasher wrote:Why do I still commit sins? Partly because it is my nature to do so.Is not the old nature / man crucified with Christ?I believe Paul is teaching the same thought but from a different angle in 1 Corinthians 1:4-9 "I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus. that yu were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge, even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into fellowship of His Son Jesus Christ our Lord."Paul begins his corrective letter to the Corinthians by clearly defining the limit to which God gives of His Son to those who believe. We see that there is no limiting the gift of grace through Christ. Upon our confession to repent before God, we have all things available to us in Christ. Yet, as Paul continues, we find that few have matured in Christ. Few can understand the things that are spiritual. Most are living according to the carnal ways. When Paul speaks in other places that we have been crucified in Christ, that we have been baptized into His death, I believe Paul is teaching in like manner as he did in 1 Corinthians 1:4-9. Jesus gives the same promise in the story of the woman caught in adultery. After He deals with the Pharisees He says to the woman, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more." Then Jesus turns to the crowd to teach this principle, "I am the light of the world, he who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life." John 8:11-12I believe Scripture teaches that we are always given a choice to obey or disobey. The Holy Spirit is our light, He is our Emanuel. And as Paul writes in another place, "Therefore, brethren, we are debtors-not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live." Romans 8:12-13. Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit, yet it is we who are given the choice to obey. It is our responsiblity to put to death the deeds of the body. God will show us His light, we must choose to walk in it.In ChristJeff

Here's something more from Andrew Murray on the subject;I want to ask you, Can believers live a holier life than is generally lived? Can believers experience the keeping power of God all the day, to keep them from sin? Can believers be kept in fellowship with God? And I bring you a message from the Word of God, in these words: Kept by the power of God. There is no qualifying clause to them. The meaning is, that if you will entrust yourself entirely and absolutely to the omnipotence of God, He will delight to keep you.Some people think that they never can get so far as that every word of their mouth should be to the glory of God. But it is what God wants of them, it is what God expects of them. God is willing to set a watch at the door of their mouth, and if God will do that, cannot He keep their tongue and their lips? He can; and that is what God is going to do for them that trust Him. God’s keeping is all-inclusive, and let everyone who longs to live a holy life think out all their needs, and all their weaknesses, and all their shortcomings, and all their sins, and say deliberately: “Is there any sin that my God cannot keep me from?” And the heart will have to answer: “No; God can keep me from every sin.”-Andrew Murray from Absolute Surrender

Hi RobertSome would argue that the 'old man' is crucified with Christ, but the 'old nature' (GK. sarx 'flesh') still remains. The 'old man' is your 'old self' who existed when you were dead in trespasses in sins. That person is crucified with Christ. Does the sin nature remain though? I would argue- yes. Some would argue no. I would argue 'yes' based upon many passages in the epistles that warn us not to sow to the 'flesh'- lest we reap corruption.This is the area where we shall just have to agree to disagree. The bible has no concept of the 'old nature'; is a purely theological explanation. Nor is there a biblical concept of 'self' or the 'old self'; this is a purely psychological explanation. We are dead or alive, in the light or in the darkness, of God or not of God, in Adam or in Christ. None of these opposites can co-exist.Notice the combination of singular and plural in the verse 'our old man was co-crucified with Christ'. If we were speaking of an individual's condition we might have expected 'our old men were' or 'the old man was' but we get this unique picture of one old man who is shared by all of us. This is the 'ancient man' (literally). It is Adam and what he became as a result of his disobedience. It is the whole race of which I am part by first birth. It is the race under the wrong head; it is a mystical body that stands in contrast to the 'new man' which is a new race, under a new head. It is utterly impossible, as far as I can see, for a person to by under two heads at the same time or for the states 'in Adam' and 'in Christ' to coexist.The last time we discussed this issue you implicitly questioned whether I should be on this forum, asking whether other site users knew what I was preaching. So, please don't presume that you know what I am preaching until you hear me say it. The real question is how does a person come to be 'in Christ'? I do not believe it is by justification. Abraham was justified but was not in Christ while on earth. (although he may be now). The real difficulty here is that almost every word of an explanation would need careful definition. Regeneration, sancitification, in Christ, Spirit-baptism, all these words trigger historical-theological responses in those who hear them. The consequence is that such discussions generate more heat than light. As a simple answer to the original question 'why do Christians sin?'. I would give the answer: "because they choose to".

There are two completely different personalities working in every true believer. This becomes evident (to the believer) when God's light, which is equated with truth, goes into a man's heart, and exposes the darkness which is man's inherited nature, or the natural man. The man of the senses. 1 Cor 2:14The outer man, or man of senses does not receive the things of the Spirit, because we cannot even see light (truth), until we are in it.There is the inner man, and the outer man. The inner man, which is birthed from God cannot sin. Because it's His righteousness, or His light, and Christ (in us) who cannot sin.But the outer man cannot cease from sin, without the light. So, the only way the outer man can die, is by the gospel which is the ressurection.This is a daily death, or daily cross Luke 9:23 and I Cor 15:31, to the outer man, not a one-time walk down an isle to "accept Christ" triggered by soft music, momentary conviction and the soft words of some pastor giving an altar call. That is not it.Paul himself said I AM carnal. Romans 7:3-25 is the reality of every true believer. Anyone who says that they can live above sin, just commmited sin by lying. And agreeing to disagree is diorusso {dee-or-oos'-so},and diamerizo {dee-am-er-id'-zo} and dianomos.There is supposed to be no division of light within the body of Christ. The only way to sin (less) is to feed the inner man, and starve the outer man. But, we will always have some trouble in this flesh, anyone who says differently is just kidding themselves.

Hey NasherYou have a great discussion going here. When I read your question it made me think of the passage in John11: “8 His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again? 9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. 10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.”It is impossible to sin while we are in the light and yet, to be a confessing Christian does not guarantee remaining in the light. Again Jesus said in John12,“35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. 36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.To walk (in the light) requires energy and investment on our part (prayer, praise worship). When you cease to walk in the light then you are in darkness, and you stumble. You would argue that we are justified by faith and not by works but consider James2, “26for as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead”. So although you may be in the light for a moment, you must chose to remain in the light.Does this suggest spiritual death? I do not believe so because of what is suggest by the scripture, 1Cor15, “6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.” And sleep, in my opinion, is a cousin of death in this respect, when we are dead there is no light in us, just as when we are asleep. So finally to answer your question I believe that we sin when we have no light in us and when we are asleep (spiritually).James

Hi Inwardman, where does it say that a man cannot live without sinning once he becomes a Christian?Jude 24:Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy

Inwardman writes that we are kidding ourselves if we believe we cannot sin. (paraphrase) As I read scripture it seems clear that we are actually calling God a liar. Chapter 2:1 tells us John was writing to Saints (little children). He goes on to make a strong case that born again believers have His Seed remaining in them and that they cannot sin because they are born of God. Paul answers this by saying, "It is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." Not that he was not responsible, but that he saw the need to be delivered from the wretchedness of the body of this death. I John 1:8-10 (NIV)If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

I think inwardman actually said, "But, we will always have some trouble in this flesh, anyone who says differently is just kidding themselves."Christ's death and resurrection opened a way to living a holy life; and released us from the bondage of sin. Nevertheless, on this side of resurrection, in this imperfect body, I think it is fair to say that even Christians will experience struggles with sin.Is it possible to achieve "sinless perfection"? Maybe. But when I pray at night, I ask myself "what sins I have to confess", not "whether I have sinned at all."

Keith Writes:As for "why do Christians sin?" Well, we're all still tempted (as Jesus was, and as James made clear that every man is), and the sources of those temptations might be categorized as: the flesh, the world, and the devil.Interesting question about why the flesh should have any influence, being crucified, but it would appear that the congenital depravity inherited from Adam does not entirely disappear upon conversion. I think some forms of the doctrine of Entire Sanctification include a total purging of this source of temptation.Anyway, being tempted is not sin, failing to refuse the temptation is. Why do Christians do that? The weaknesses and temptations do not force them to do so, and God makes a way of escape with each temptation (1 Cor. 10:13), so they can avoid sinning. Nonetheless, sometimes we get back into that old self-centered mode and sin.Why? I suppose because we want to. May we never want to.I think this is a good summary of some of the issues. The question is why would we WANT to sin or more perfectly- why would a Christian be tempted to sin? Why the wretchedness? Why do we find another law working in our members? Are we not in Christ? Was Christ not sinless? Why then, if we are in Him, would we be tempted to sin? This issue in itself is up for debate; but, we all know that we ARE tempted to sin. We ALL must flee youthful lusts that war against the soul. We ALL must flee fornication. We ALL must lay aside every weight and the sin that does so easily beset us. We ALL must refuse to allow sin to reign in our mortal bodies. We ALL must get under our body and bring it into subjection lest when we have preached to others we would be disqualified (adokimos). If we sow to the flesh we will of the flesh reap corruption- but if we sow to the spirit we will reap life everlasting. We all must be sober and vigilant. We all must take heed lest we fall. These issues are so common in the New Testament that surely we can't miss them. Beloved, let us be the watchmen of our own souls. And again I say... watch!

We all must be sober and vigilant."Gal 5:16 This I say then,Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."Something about this bold type today :-)

What a great forum; already two of my favorite topics discussed! I am surprised nobody has brought up the passages from 1 John as a Scriptural proof of a perfect Christian life without sin. It seems most people who claim to be believers would rather focus on the passages that seem to allow unrighteousness rather than press towards the mark of the high calling of God through faith in the death of Christ, calling it their own, and by the blood of Jesus Christ shed on the cross, all sin has been dealt with, including the very source and thought of sin, by nailing this old flesh to the cross with Christ. How can a dead man commit sin against God? Only by faith in the bodily resurrection of Christ, applying it to our hearts through faith in the wonderous work of the cross of Calvary, by applying that to our lives, by making Christ our life, we can walk with newness of life regardless of the flesh's appettites or its carnal agendas.Below are some Scriptural proof of the fact of a born-again Christian's experience of abstinence from sin. CHRISTIAN PERFECTION Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:6-9)Christians Are To Be Righteous If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. (1 John 2:29) And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. (Luke 1:6) For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. (Matthew 13:17) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:20) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)If You Sin, It Will Kill You Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. (Psalms 4:4) Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. (1 Corinthians 15:34) She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. (John 8:11) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:2) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. (Ezekiel 18:4) But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out. (Numbers 32:23)The Blood Of Christ Frees Us From The Power Of Sin And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. (Matthew 1:21) For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; (Hebrews 7:26) But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:6-7) For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. (Hebrews 7:19) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (Hebrews 10:1) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14) God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. (Hebrews 11:40) But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. (Hebrews 6:9)Be Perfect Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. (1 John 4:17) Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. (Philippians 3:15) Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you. (2 Corinthians 13:11) For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection. (2 Corinthians 13:9) Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: (1 Corinthians 2:6) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (Colossians 1:28)Christians Can Be Perfect Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God. (Colossians 4:12) Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith? (1 Thessalonians 3:10) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Timothy 3:17) Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. (Hebrews 13:20-21) But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. (James 1:4) For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. (James 3:2) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. (Hebrews 6:1-3) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Matthew 5:48) It Is Possible To Be Perfect He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. (Revelation 22:11) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Romans 6:6-7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (Romans 8:7) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5:23) Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (2 Corinthians 7:1) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. (Romans 6:13) Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: (Hebrews 12:14)Don't Worry If Someone Starts Saying They're Perfect, But Really Aren'tIf I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse. (Job 9:20) For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars. (2 Chronicles 16:9)---Now, after listing all these references, keep in mind this one simple Christian truth, reiterated by Christ in John's Gospel: if a man testifies of himself, his testimony is meaningless; but if another's testimony agrees with the testimony of God concerning one's righteousness, that you may consider as foolproof. Truly, only God can reveal how you can be perfect without sin; but that comes through faith in Christ's work done for us at the cross of Calvary for the remission of ALL sin, including the very thought of sin which begins in the heart (for if Christ gives us a new heart, why would we be worried about the old heart which God supposedly replaced with His?), as well as the power of God through the resurrection power of the Holy Ghost which lives within us. Only by the grace of God, received by faith in Christ alone, can we walk perfectly in love towards His holy commands.Love, In Christ Jesus,DannyPS Hope this doesn't confuse anyone, and if it does, please let me know quickly! I don't want anyone to assume anything incorrect concerning Scripture, so please speak up!

Bro Danny,You Write:It seems most people who claim to be believers would rather focus on the passages that seem to allow unrighteousness rather than press towards the mark of the high calling of God through faith in the death of Christ, calling it their own, and by the blood of Jesus Christ shed on the cross, all sin has been dealt with, including the very source and thought of sin, by nailing this old flesh to the cross with Christ. How can a dead man commit sin against God? Only by faith in the bodily resurrection of Christ, applying it to our hearts through faith in the wonderous work of the cross of Calvary, by applying that to our lives, by making Christ our life, we can walk with newness of life regardless of the flesh's appettites or its carnal agendas.I agree with you in this. The issue on this forum has not been so much if we should press towards perfection; but rather two main things stick out to me:1) Does a Born Again believer still have to deal with the flesh (GK sarx. sin nature)2) Can a Christian move into a realm where they are no longer TEMPTED to sin.Question 1) My position is that a believer obviously must not sow to the flesh lest they reap corruption. Provision must not be made for the flesh to fulfill its lusts. Etc. Question 2) My postition is that "Every man is tempted." The temptation in itself is not sin, yielding to it is. We do not have to yield to sin- however, on rare occasions well saved Christians choose to or will to in a moment of weakness. Personally I do not feel like a Christian should ever yield to a "damnable sin"- or a sin which scripture clearly says "They that commit such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God." These things ought NOT to be named among us ONCE as becometh Saints. As for I John and like passages; most here would well concur as it is a great source for passages on Christian perfection. Where I part company with some is that we could reach a level of perfection that reaches beyond what the New Testament teaches. In other words we will never reach a place where we do not need to 1) Flee youthful lusts that war against the soul 2) Flee fornication 3) lay aside every weight and the sin that does so easily beset us 4) Exercise our senses 5) Take heed lest we fall 6) Die daily 7) Bring our body into subjection lest when we have preached to others we ourselves would be a castaway (GK adokimos; KJV; reprobate, disqualified, rejected).Welcome to this forum!God Bless and we look forward to your input!