Hearing God? not Todd friel

I've been listening to Way of the master Radio (WOTM) for over a year now and I have noticed that Todd Friel keeps mentioning things which I frankly disagree with.

I do think he's a good Christian who has the heart of an Evangelist, but there are a few points he mentions from time to time which I think are unscriptural. Sure he'll give you a reference to back up what he says but I'm not convinced.

There are a few but let's just discuss one of them here. Does God Speak to us today?
He will say 'yes' through the bible and by asking Godly friends and Pastors, we can learn God's will. But if you suggest that God actually SPEAKS using His voice, well then you're hit with ridicule. Both he and Ray Comfort (and I've heard them say this) will laugh; 'What? you're hearing voices and you think it's God?'

Now I guess to be fair I will give you more input on what I have heard, Todd does believe that God can do anything and so he'll say that God CAN speak to you if He wants to. The argument that he uses is that there are no more revelations and that God has spoken through the Bible and He doesn't need to say any more. Following that point (which I agree with) Todd goes on to say that because God has no more to say he doesn't 'talk' to us and if we thought He had told us something that is a new revelation and therefore not God doing the speaking.

However if you listen to say Carter Conlon, Paris Reidhead and other men of God they will mention when God has spoken to them, Carter told of a time when he was driving past a plot of land and God told him that he (Carter) would soon be living on that land. (and it did happen). Paris Reidhead in 10 Shekels says 'and I heard a voice echoing down from the ages "do I not deserve those fo whom I died"'

I do realise we shouldn't listen to everything that pops into our head, but becoming more Christ like is learning to hear His voice (My sheep know my voice Jn 10:27) and obeying it.

Personally I have found God does speak to me- yes it's a voice in my head and it sounds just like my own thoughts - This voice gives me guicence (this is the way, walk ye in it. Isa 30:21), rebuke, things like 'that's enough chocolate' and 'go and apologise to your wife' encouragement - this is not so much as words as an image of him holding my hand, smiling etc (these are vague impressions don't be asking me 'what does He look like').

I remember once asking Him why I couldn't be like all those 'Christians' who do nothing, why do I have to go out and preach. His words were very clear; 'because people would die and go to hell if you didn't warn them'. Another time I had to go and confess a sin to a friend, I really didn't want to it was so bad, again (in a loving way, not harshly) I asked what would happen if I didn't and the answer I got was, not like a vision, again just a vague impression, nothing specific, but this is what I 'heard' if I didn't confess, I would believe myself to have 'got away with it' and the next time I am temped to sin in that way I would fall, that act of sin would be discovered and would be distroy my family (I got the idea that I would end up in prison).

To put my beliefs on the table; I believe that God does speak to us, He speaks in a still small voice, easy to ignore and drown out, He often gives us verses of scripture (that pop into our mind), and He also gives us guidance verbally, with pictures or these hard to define vague impressions. I also believe that just because people have voices in their heads doesn't mean that it's God. I hear the voice of the enemy too, he often says things like 'go on, you know you can just repent of it later'. And I have my own voice of course, it's like a party in my head!;-) No seriously, do any of you understand this, could you perhaps put it in simpler terms.

I'm not calling Todd but I find it anoying that he has his cessational beliefs and he uses the radio show to coax us on to his side, I am nearly to the point of stopping listening but there is so much good stuff on his show. Why not write to him? Because I've heard his reply's when people write in, he gives his opinion, chucks in a scripture or mentions a name like John McArthur, and moves on to another subject, if someone phones in and disagrees, he does something similar and then cuts them off. And then has the audacity to say 'It's good you are calling in with your criticisms, I'm not perfect and I like to be shown where you think I'm wrong.

This is a bit long and I still haven't said everything but I'll open it up to you lot.

Steve

I am also a listener of WOTM, and am in perfect agreement with all you have said.

Hi Steve,

From the sound of it, Todd does seem to be in the cessationist camp with regards to this issue.

However, if you've heard any of Ray Comfort's older sermons (specifically "Why the lack of Power in the Church"), it's obvious that he is charismatic in viewpoint. Also, his is an ordained pastor under Calvary Chapel plus he has made appearances on Joyce Meyer's TV show.

As for Kirk Cameron, the last two weeks of John MacArthur's "Grace to You" video podcasts featured Kirk giving his testimony. Kirk has also said on WOTMR that when he leads people to Christ, he directs them to the alumni department the of Master's Seminary.

I honestly think this is interesting. Todd seems to be of the more Reformed side (cessationist, more calvinistic) whereas Ray is more akin to the "Holiness" preachers among the old-school pentacostals such as Ravenhill, Tozer, Reidhead. In the audio version of "Hell's Best Kept Secret", Ray recounts that early in his US ministry, David Wilkerson had him fly from California to New York to preach at Times Square Church.

The fact that these men can come together in unity to form a ministry under a common vision is an example to be learned from.

If Todd Friel is attending the church John MacArthur pastors as Ray Comfort does, then he is, most likely, a cessasionist. On this point I would disagree with this brother as I do with Ray Comfort, and John MacArthur.

This is something that as Paul said in Philippians that the Lord will make clear to us in due time on those debatable points.

Hi everyone.

allhavsinned, how are you?

I hope it will be alright to leave a short comment here. Maybe it expresses something of your concerns too.

It is hard to imagine we could be united to God and be left [b]uninspired[/b].

Wish you all well in God,

Chris

allhavsinned,

Whatever Paris Reidhead or Carter Conlon says is irrelevant, just as whatever Todd and Ray says is irrelevant. What matters is what the Word of God says. What you have described regarding "leading" or "God's voice" is not based on anything in the Word of God (except some verses that you have taken out of context), but is something that you have taken to be God speaking with you when it could in fact be you speaking to you in your thoughts.

That's why it's so important to let the Word of God be the source of our guidance and not our own thoughts. Those are relative. His Word is absolute and there is no doubt where that came from.

Blessings,

Jon

Hi Chris, yes I'm fine thanks, just been a bit too busy to come here for a while.

Jon, you're post is interesting, it's so vague that it's difficult to disagree with. we all here recognise that it's not what people say but what the bible says, that't why I'm asking about Todd and how others think of the matter, you see there are a lot of things that the bible are silent on, so it's left to us to debate.

I like the way you say I take a bible verse out of context but don't show how or what the 'real' context is, that bad apologetics (or is it bad herminutics?) anyway, Jon nail your flag to the mast what do you believe, does God speak to us audibly today (as in the OT to the prophets) or not. And don't forget to back up what you say with scripture (in context ;-))

I hope you take this post in the attitude it's written, I'm not having a go at anyone, just want to ask about others and their experiences.

Steve

God does speak to us, sometimes we just don't have the ears to listen. Sometimes we hear the voices of man, and what man tells us to hear, over what God wants us to hear.

He speaks to us in dreams and visions. People seem to forget about the dream arena.

He speaks audible to us. I have no scripture that says "I have spoken to Miccah", but He has.

He speaks to us through other people and examples. HOw many times have you been reading, listening to something that you feel that teh Lord leads you to, next thing you know on Sunday, that exact verse is spoken about, or someone tells you about this same verse that you have been stuck on.

The Lord speaks to us, do we have the fortitude to truly listen?

This is one of those topics, where I wonder why there is even any debate. How can anyone think that for 4,000 years or so God was speaking, and then when the bible was finished, He said, "That's it, here's the book get on with it, don't expect to hear from Me again until you get to heaven." Of course, He still speaks today. The reason we have the bible is to avoid a lot of repetition and so that we are not led astray by deceiving spirits into error. (This is not an definitive list of reasons.)

If you have any doubts, try a couple of experiments. If your a father, find your child's diary and hug it and tell it you love the child, who wrote the diary. Now try it with the child. Did you notice any difference? If your married, go and find your wife's diary, give it a hug and whisper sweet nothings to it. Now try the same with your wife. Again, any difference? God is our Father, Christ is the bridegroom of the Church, why would they not want to speak to us?

Now it isn't always clear whether we have heard right, for Paul writes: [color=009900]1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.[/color] so the bible and godly advice is a useful backstop to keep us from making bad mistakes or plunging into error, but God not speaking today, I don't think so! This is getting a bit too close to those theologians that said God is dead! Very dangerous ground.

MikeH

allhavesinned wrote:

Whatever Paris Reidhead or Carter Conlon says is irrelevant, just as whatever Todd and Ray says is irrelevant. What matters is what the Word of God says. What you have described regarding "leading" or "God's voice" is not based on anything in the Word of God (except some verses that you have taken out of context), but is something that you have taken to be God speaking with you when it could in fact be you speaking to you in your thoughts.

That's why it's so important to let the Word of God be the source of our guidance and not our own thoughts. Those are relative. His Word is absolute and there is no doubt where that came from.

First of all, the burden of proof is in your court to prove that God no longer speaks to people, or that there are no new revelations.

Both are foolishness, but I will show simply how they are such.

Let's look at what Paul says here in I Corinthians.

[b][color=FF0000]I Corinthians 12:1-2

1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

2Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.[/color][/b]

What is a dumb idol?

If you know anything about language, or history of words, a dumb idol meant an idol that could not communicate, could not speak. Why did Paul make a point of this?

I am assuming that you don't believe that any signs or wonders are for today either, because why would you? You believe in a God that has no relationship with His people.

You probably have never done a study on God to see what His character is concerning speaking to His people. If you did, you would find that God is the God who sees, God is the God who hears, God is the God who speaks.

Let me ask you this, does God answer prayers?

If He does, then He speaks, so you are driven to believe either in a God who speaks, or to a God who does not answer prayer, your choice.

By the way, this is only two verses, if I have to, I can make an outline of all the speakings of God, or the Holy Spirit throughout the NT, and then you really have a problem, because it does not say anywhere that those things have stopped.
-------------------------------------------------

One other thing, and this is for a few people who posted here, ya'll have said that you believe there are no new revelations, what about the revelation of God's mercy, which the scripture says is new every morning?

If there is one that is new every morning, what about the revelation of God's love, His patience, His kindness, His wisdom?

Besides all that, if God gives a man a word of knowledge, that is a new revelation, because it was not known before, and it was a supernatural piece of information, which is revelation.

I think ya'll are speaking from a lack of experience, because God has spoken things to me when I was ministering many times where it was something I had no way of knowing, and yet it was 100% accurate when I spoke it to whoever it was for.

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

Jesus spoke to people right? Jesus is God, God still speaks to people.

God also speaks to His people through His Angels also:

Acts 8:

[b][color=0000FF]26 And a messenger of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, `Arise, and go on toward the south, on the way that is going down from Jerusalem to Gaza,' -- this is desert. [/color][/b]

This angel was clearly sent of God so we know he spoke as God instructed him to.

We also have the account of the Revelation...that was Jesus speaking John and asking him to write it all down, as well as what He showed John:

Rev 1:

[b][color=0000FF]9 I, John, who also [am] your brother, and fellow-partner in the tribulation, and in the reign and endurance, of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, because of the word of God, and because of the testimony of Jesus Christ; 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day,[/color][/b][u][i][b][color=0000FF]and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying, 11 `I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' [/color][/b][/i][/u]

so John heard the Voice of Jesus telling him what to do...Jesus told us Holy Spirit would come and teach us and that teaching involves speaking to men among other things also like the word, i hear Him speak to me as i read something and He reveals something about it to me. God speaks to us in voice but most of us don't have ears to hear...it is no different to the days of old in which men would say "i heard God talk to me today" and people would be like "yeah uh huh..."Those that heard God's voice were often thought of as nuts in the same way that those of us who say the same thing now are thought of as nuts. the hearts of men don't change do they?

God does still speak audibly...to those who would hear anyway. All the same may God continue perfecting us in spite of ourselves.AMEN.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

allhavsinned,

Whatever Paris Reidhead or Carter Conlon says is irrelevant, just as whatever Todd and Ray says is irrelevant. What matters is what the Word of God says. What you have described regarding "leading" or "God's voice" is not based on anything in the Word of God (except some verses that you have taken out of context), but is something that you have taken to be God speaking with you when it could in fact be you speaking to you in your thoughts.

That's why it's so important to let the Word of God be the source of our guidance and not our own thoughts. Those are relative. His Word is absolute and there is no doubt where that came from.

Blessings,

Jon

Hi Jon,

I had a few thoughts that came to mind and I thought I would ask. I' m not meaning to be provocative.

How do you know you're converted? Is it because you have deduced this fact from scripture or because the spirit bears witness with you that you are a child of God?

I know that the Bible doesn't say "Josh Parsley is a Christian." So, don't I have to go on some type of perception or conscience that God has accepted me? If so, wouldn't I have to believe "God spoke to me that I have peace with Him?"

I think we have to have a combination of the Spirit bearing witness with us and it being in line with the Bible.

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

bro Jim
from my own experience of what was said about the voice of God sounding like your thoughts, what i hear sounds like my own voice but the giveaway is that the thoughts are something other than what i would think on otherwise. Furthermore it has been confirmed by His word, events and other saints also. it's like you said when you got a word of knowledge from another brother, that is God speaking to you albeit using the voice of a brother. that brother is the vessel.

you said:

May we have ears to hear.

may we have ears to hear indeed.AMEN.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

BenWilliams could you edit your post you made it look as though I wrote that statement when actually Jon wrote it to answer me.

for the rest of "ya'll" Thanks for the encouragement, like I said I like Todd Friel but I find the way he pushes the questionable side of his doctrines to be annoying, he has so much influence that some weaker Christians might not follow the voice of God because they don't like it, though I would agree that what He speaks to us MUST be in line with Scripture.

Another point I wanted to mention to Jon, what about those who don't have access to a bible, those alone in prison, can God not speak to them?

Also...
Jn 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him,
How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ,
tell us plainly.
Jn 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not:
the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of
me.
Jn 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as
I said unto you.
Jn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they
follow me:
Jn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never
perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
Jn 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all;
and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
Jn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

What does Jesus mean if he doesn't mean 'My sheep hear my voice'? Why is this out of context?

and...

Isa 30:19 For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more: he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee.
Isa 30:20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:
Isa 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

Again I realise He's talking to the Jews here but I think this verse applies to us (the Church) too, I'm open to you showing me where I'm wrong.

Steve

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Blessings Greg :-)

Just to put you all in the picture, if you go to WayOfTheMaster Radio and listen to Hour2 of 29th November, Todd gives a good 10 mins to this subject and clearly says that God only speaks through the bible, not audibly.

The question he askes is 'is Scripture sufficient' and then goes on to say that if you believe that then you don't need to hear God's voice, but if you claim to hear God speaking to you then you don't believe that Scripture is sufficient. I am sorry but Todd is dead wrong on this, as is mentioned above by bible believing Christians who have heard the voice of God.

Yes the scriptures are sufficient but why does that stop God from speaking. Todd believes that if God speaks another word (small w) then He is giving a new revelation!

I'm a bit of a legalist myself, that is to say that I err on the side of 'if you think it may be wrong, keep away from it' so I should agree with Todd, and I wouldn't tell anyone that they must hear from God to be a Christian, But I believe in a loving God, who cares for His children, (those who have received Him, John 1) and corrects them, and encourages them, does He use the bible for this? Yes very much so and those who don't read the bible often miss out on a lot that He has to say, but there are circumstances when He speaks. let me tell you a quick story...

Afew months ago I was witnessing to a Johovah's Witness and they don't believe God speaks to us, I told her outright 'God is talking to me now as I talk to you, he's prompting me with scriptures and helping me keep focus' I have no Idea weather or not she believed me but I said that because I was sure of it. Put it this way, either God was talking to me by putting scripture verses (passages not chapter and verse) in my mind, or I'm a lot cleverer than I think because normally I can't come up with them at the right time.

Another one, My dad, never been a Christian, still not one, one day in his garden he heard God say 'are you coming now?' (something to that effect) and he replied 'not yet I'v a few problems I want to sort out first'. was that God or a momentary lapse of reason.

My wife last year I asked her if she wanted to go to Israel with my mum, she replied 'no' later that day she was thinking about it and a verse popped into her head, this time it was a reference, so she looked it up and lo an behold it said 'go up to Jerusalem' She told me and I told my mum who said she'd been reading the parable where Jesus says 'one son said he would go and didn't the other said he wouldn't go and he did'. You see I believe God speaks through the scriptures and sometimes he audibly quotes it for us.

Again let me ask what about those who have no bible?

Withoug rambling on I just want to say that I still like Todd, he's overall a better Christian than I am and He knows the scriptures more than I, that's why I'm not writing this to him, he'd just bury me in theology. So I've come to you guys to find the truth, it appears so far that I'm heading in the right direction, are there anythings I'm falling short on?

Just one quickie, if the scripture is sufficient as he says (of course it is) why do we need the book 'Decisions Decisions' (available at WOTMR) to be able to understand the bible better?
Can not God's Holy Spirit guide us as we read it, to understand it better? I think this is the point Greg was making above.

Steve

Revelation 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

John 10:2-5 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

grace and peace be multiplied to you brother.