BSBKJVWEBYLTASVBBEWMBT4TDBY|HymnsMusicDonate
Menu
Theology

Optional commands of Jesus?

T
theopenlife Dec 1, 2007

Hey there, friends. I've been on SI just long enough for many of you to know that I'm not being facetious. I have a question that has been irking me for weeks, to the point of robbing me of peace. How can I have peace while in willful sin?

The trouble comes from not knowing if it is sin!

Despite all of culture teaching otherwise, how do I reconcile Christ's command, "If you have two coats, give to him who has none" with my owning anything unnecessary to daily life?

A coat preserves one's life when it doubles for a blanket, and protects against sickness that comes from exposure. But some of my clothes are merely for variation's sake. I had a brown sweater and a black one, but lost the brown one. Yesterday I went to the store to buy a brown one to match things which the black one doesn't go with. I felt vain, and like I was wasting money, just because I don't want to wear the same sweater every day.

It's not even for man's opinion, I just like two different sweaters. I like clothes that match. I also have six pairs of pants, in variations of blue, brown, or black. At the time when I bought them, I could have used the money for something directly beneficial to God's kingdom. The next time I buy pants, this will again haunt me.

I don't think it is inherently wrong to own or enjoy things, just as Paul wrote that God has given us all (lawful) things for our enjoyment. And Paul also wrote that he didn't desire one group to make themselves poor so another could be rich, but that he desired and equality.

But with all of the poor Christians around the world who lack Christian literature, medicine, food, and clothing, how can I justify anything at all which is not necessary to life and godliness? My computer is useful for godliness if used for godly purposes, but the $7 burrito I ate last week could have been spent on a $3 burger, with $4 going to something useful for another person.

In first John, it says, "If you, having this world's goods, see a brother in need and then shut up the bowels of compassion towards him, how dwells in you the love of God?"

I feel this affecting everything I do, every minute I spend. I feel powerless to really enjoy giving EVERY MINUTE and CENT to service of some sort, and I feel terrible for not having boundless affection for all people.

Everyone tells me, "don't sweat it, don't be legalistic", but since when was it legalism to obey the most clear commands of Christ?

So, yeah, pray for me. :cry:

sermonindex Dec 1, 2007

Good for you Brother. Hip-hip-hooray.

Now this is what some would call the true Christmas [or Christian] spirit.

Imagine if it spreads and stays for the duration, until He comes.

Now 'that' would certainly be termed REVIVAL.

:-D

Your post made me smile for the first time today.

[u]Thank you!!![/u]

T
Tears_of_joy Dec 1, 2007

Dear brother, your testimony brought real joy into my heart. Thank you. Similar testimonies are not heard often today, especially from the church in the so called "rich" countries. There was once a church that said "I am rich", and the Lord said to her, "thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked!" And the tragedy is that you (the church) don't know it.

Could it be that we preach [i]about[/i] gospel and we don't preach and live [i]the gospel[/i]?

Everyone tells me, "don't sweat it, don't be legalistic", but since when was it legalism to obey the most clear commands of Christ?

Oh, yes, those old tricks by the wicked one.

Brother, once I was very vain about clothes, I wanted to buy "the best", NIKE etc.. I don't know how, but the Lord took that desire from my heart to a such degree, that right now my mother is forcing me literally to buy some clothes, but my heart is dead on this subject, I have no desire for new clothes, because I have so much, so much brother, that I am ashamed. Although I don't live in a rich country and my clothes maybe are not so much, compared to someone in west, but brother, I came to conclusion that we christians are murmuring and never satisfying, and we are fighting unto death with all our forces, not to die! You will hear thousands poor excuses, that our culture is different, etc etc Of course that doesn't mean that we should go in rags, but oh! As [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19059&forum=45]H.Bonar is saying[/url]:

O easy, luxurious, comfortable Christian!

Isn't interesting what the Lord said, "He that hath [b][u]two[/u][/b] coats, let him impart to him that hath none;"

He said if you have just two, not ten, in order to give! What a shame for us luxurious christians!

Years ago I was reproved by the testimony of Hadson Taylor, and his preparation of going to China, I would like here to post a part of that testimony that is speaking on this subject, for the encouragement of the Body here. The whole book could be found [b][url=http://www.wholesomewords.org/missions/biotaylor6.pdf]here[/url][/b] (PDF format)

Excerpt from

[b][color=000099]Chapter 2. The Call to Service[/color][/b]

...
Within a few months of this time of consecration the impression was wrought into my soul that it was in China the Lord wanted me. It seemed to me highly probable that the work to which I was thus called might cost my life; for China was not then open as it is now. But few missionary societies had at that time workers in China, and but few books on the subject of China missions were accessible to me. I learned, however, that the Congregational minister of my native town possessed a copy of Medhurst's China, and I called upon him to ask a loan of the book. This he kindly granted, asking me why I wished to read it. I told him that God had called me to spend my life in missionary service in that land. "And how do you propose to go there?" he inquired. I answered that I did not at all know; that it seemed to me probable that I should need to do as the Twelve and the Seventy had done in Judea — go without purse or script, [b]relying on Him who had called me to supply all my need.[/b] Kindly placing his hand upon my shoulder, the minister replied, [b]"Ah, my boy, as you grow older you will get wiser than that. Such an idea would do very well in the days when Christ Himself was on earth, but not now."[/b]

[b]I have grown older since then, but not wiser.[/b] [u]I am more than ever convinced that if we were to take the directions of our Master and the assurances He gave to His first disciples more fully as our guide, we should find them to be just as suited to our times as to those in which they were originally given.[/u]

....

For a while I gave much time to studying the Scriptures about it, with the result that I was led to see that this same Jesus who left our earth in His resurrection body was so to come again, that His feet were to stand on the Mount of Olives, and that He was to take possession of the temporal throne of His father David which was promised before His birth. I saw, further, that all through the New Testament the coming of the Lord was the great hope of His people, and was always appealed to as the strongest motive for consecration and service, and as the greatest comfort in trial and affliction.

I learned, too, that the period of His return for His people was not revealed, and that it was their privilege, from day to day and from hour to hour, to live as men who wait for the Lord; that thus living it was immaterial, so to speak, whether He should or should not come at any particular hour, the important thing being to be so ready for Him as to be able, whenever He might appear, [b]to give an account of one's stewardship with joy, and not with grief.[/b]

The effect of this blessed hope was a thoroughly practical one. It led me to look carefully through my little library to see if there were any books there that were not needed or likely to be of further service, and to examine my small wardrobe, [b]to be quite sure that it contained nothing that I should be sorry to give an account of should the Master come at once.[/b] The result was that the library was considerably diminished, to the benefit of some poor neighbors, and to the far greater benefit of my own soul, and that I found I had articles of clothing also which might be put to better advantage in other directions.

It has been very helpful to me from time to time through life, as occasion has served, to act
again in a similar way; and [b]I have never gone through my house, from basement to attic, with
this object in view, without receiving a great accession of spiritual joy and blessing.[/b]
I believe we are all in danger of accumulating — it may be from thoughtlessness, or from pressure of occupation — things which would be useful to others, while not needed by ourselves, and the retention of which entails loss of blessing.[b] If the whole resources of the Church of God were
well utilized, how much more might be accomplished![/b]
How many poor might be fed and naked clothed, and to how many of those as yet unreached the Gospel might be carried! Let me
advise this line of things as a constant habit of mind, and a profitable course to be practically
adopted whenever circumstances permit.

[b][color=000099]Chapter 3. Preparation for Service[/color][/b]

Having now the twofold object in view of accustoming myself to endure hardness, and of economising in order to be able more largely to assist those amongst whom I spent a good deal of time labouring in the Gospel, I soon found that I could live upon very much less than I had previously thought possible. [b][u]Butter, milk, and other such luxuries I soon ceased to use;[/u][/b] and I found that by living mainly on oatmeal and rice, with occasional variations, a very small sum was sufficient for my needs. In this way I had more than two-thirds of my income available for other purposes; and my experience was that the less I spent on myself and the more I gave away, the fuller of happiness and blessing did my soul become. Unspeakable joy all the day long, and every day, was my happy experience. God, even my God, was a living, bright reality; and all I had to do was joyful service.

It was to me a very grave matter, however, to contemplate going out to China, far away from all human aid, there to depend upon the living God alone for protection, supplies, and help of every kind. I felt that one's spiritual muscles required strengthening for such an undertaking.

There was no doubt that if faith did not fail, God would not fail; but, then, what if one's faith
should prove insufficient? I had not at that time learned that even "if we believe not, He abideth faithful, He cannot deny Himself"; and it was consequently a very serious question to my mind, not whether He was faithful, but whether I had strong enough faith to warrant my embarking in the enterprise set before me.

I thought to myself, "When I get to China, I shall have no claim on anyone for anything; my only claim will be on God. How important, therefore, to learn before leaving England to move man, through God, by prayer alone."

At Hull my kind employer, always busily occupied, wished me to remind him whenever my salary became due. This I determined not to do directly, but to ask that God would bring the fact to his recollection, and thus encourage me by answering prayer. At one time, as the day drew near for the payment of a quarter's salary, I was as usual much in prayer about it. The time arrived, but my kind friend made no allusion to the matter. I continued praying, and days passed on, but he did not remember, until at length, on settling up my weekly accounts one Saturday night, I found myself possessed of only a single coin — one half-crown piece. Still I had hitherto had no lack, and I continued in prayer.

That Sunday was a very happy one. As usual my heart was full and brimming over with blessing. After attending Divine service in the morning, my afternoons and evenings were filled with Gospel work in the various lodging houses I was accustomed to visit in the lowest part of the town. At such times it almost seemed to me as if heaven were begun below, and that all that could be looked for was an enlargement of one's capacity for joy, not a truer filling than I possessed. After concluding my last service about ten o'clock that night, a poor man asked me to go and pray with his wife, saying that she was dying. I readily agreed, and on the way to his house asked him why he had not sent for the priest, as his accent told me he was an Irishman. He had done so, he said, but the priest refused to come without a
payment of eighteenpence, which the man did not possess, as the family was starving.

Immediately it occurred to my mind that all the money I had in the world was the solitary halfcrown, and that it was in one coin; moreover, that while the basin of water gruel I usually
took for supper was awaiting me, and there was sufficient in the house for breakfast in the morning, I certainly had nothing for dinner on the coming day.

Somehow or other there was at once a stoppage in the flow of joy in my heart; but instead of
reproving myself I began to reprove the poor man, telling him that it was very wrong to have
allowed matters to get into such a state as he described, and that he ought to have applied to
the relieving officer. His answer was that he had done so, and was told to come at eleven o'clock the next morning, but that he feared that his wife might not live through the night.

"Ah," thought I, "if only I had two shillings and a sixpence instead of this half-crown, how gladly would I give these poor people one shilling of it!" But to part with the half-crown was far from my thoughts. I little dreamed that the real truth of the matter simply was that I could trust in God plus one-and-sixpence, but was not yet prepared to trust Him only, without any money at all in my pocket.

My conductor led me into a court, down which I followed him with some degree of nervousness. I had found myself there before, and at my last visit had been very roughly handled, while my tracts were torn to pieces, and I received such a warning not to come again that I felt more than a little concerned. Still, it was the path of duty, and I followed on. Up a miserable flight of stairs, into a wretched room, he led me; and oh what a sight there presented itself to our eyes!

Four or five poor children stood about, their sunken cheeks and temples all telling unmistakably the story of slow starvation; and lying on a wretched pallet was a poor exhausted mother, with a tiny infant thirty-six hours old, moaning rather than crying at her side, for it too seemed spent and failing. "Ah!" thought I, "if I had two shillings and a sixpence instead of a half-a-crown, how gladly should they have one-and-sixpence of it!" But still a wretched unbelief prevented me from obeying the impulse to relieve their distress at the cost of all I possessed.

It will scarcely seem strange that I was unable to say much to comfort these poor people. I needed comfort myself. I began to tell them, however, that they must not be cast down, that though their circumstances were very distressing, there was a kind and loving Father in heaven; but something within me said, [b]"You hypocrite! Telling these unconverted people about a kind and loving Father in heaven, and not prepared yourself to trust Him without halfa-crown!"[/b] I was nearly choked. How gladly would I have compromised with conscience if I had had a florin and a sixpence! I would have given the florin thankfully and kept the rest; but [b]I was not yet prepared to trust in God alone[/b], without the sixpence.

To talk was impossible under these circumstances; yet, strange to say, I thought I should have no difficulty in praying. Prayer was a delightful occupation to me in those days; time thus spent never seemed wearisome, and I knew nothing of lack of words. I seemed to think that all I should have to do would be to kneel down and engage in prayer, and that relief would come to them and to myself together. "You asked me to come and pray with your wife," I said to the man, "let us pray." And I knelt down. But scarcely had I opened my lips with "Our Father who art in heaven" than conscience said switching, [b]"Dare you mock God?[/b] Dare you kneel down and call Him Father with that half-crown in your pocket?" Such a time of conflict came upon me then as I have never experienced before or since. How I got through that form of prayer I know not, and whether the words uttered were connected or disconnected I cannot tell; but I arose from my knees in great distress of mind.

The poor father turned to me and said, "You see what a terrible state we are in, sir; if you can
help us, for God's sake do!" Just then the word flashed into my mind, "Give to him that asketh of thee," and in the word of a King there is power. I put my hand into my pocket, and slowly drawing forth the half-crown, gave it to the man, telling him that it might seem a small matter for me to relieve them, seeing that I was comparatively well off, but that in parting with that coin I was giving him my all; what I had been trying to tell him was indeed true — God really was a Father, and might be trusted. The joy all came back in full flood-tide to my heart; I could say anything and feel it then, and the hindrance to blessing was gone — gone, I trust, for ever.

Not only was the poor woman's life saved, [b]but I realised that my life was saved too![/b] It might have been a wreck — would have been a wreck probably, as a Christian life — had not grace
at that time conquered, and the striving of God's Spirit been obeyed. I well remember how that night, as I went home to my lodgings, my heart was as light as my pocket. The lonely, deserted streets resounded with a hymn of praise which I could not restrain. When I took my basin of gruel before retiring, I would not have exchanged it for a prince's feast. I reminded the Lord as I knelt at my beside of His own Word, that he who giveth to the poor lendeth to the Lord: I asked Him not to let my loan be a long one, or I should have no dinner next day; and with peace within and peace without, I spent a happy, restful night.

Next morning for breakfast my plate of porridge remained, and before it was consumed the postman's knock was heard at the door. I was not in the habit of receiving letters on Monday, as my parents and most of my friends refrained from posting on Saturday; so that I was somewhat surprised when the landlady came in holding a letter or packet in her wet hand covered by her apron. I looked at the letter, but could not make out the handwriting. It was either a strange hand or a feigned one, and the postmark was blurred. Where it came from I could not tell. On opening the envelope I found nothing written within; but inside a sheet of blank paper was folded a pair of kid gloves, from which, as I opened them in astonishment, half-a-sovereign fell to the ground. "Praise the Lord!" I exclaimed; "400 per cent for twelve hours' investment; that is good interest. How glad the merchants of Hull would be if they
could lend their money at such a rate!" I then and there determined that a bank which could not break should have my savings or earnings as the case might be — a determination I have not yet learned to regret. I cannot tell you how often my mind has recurred to this incident, or all the help it has been to me in circumstances of difficulty in after-life. If we are faithful to God in little things, we shall gain experience and strength that will be helpful to us in the more serious trials of life.

--------------

About the further testimony, and the faithfulness of the Lord, you can read in 4th chapter.
It was great miracle when the Lord gave me this book. It was when my employer didn't give me money three months, and I was in need of money, and this book came into my hands, where Taylor's employer didn't give him money three months. God was faithful, and gave me money after three months, also to Taylor, but the lesson was precious! I will never forget it!

Your brother,
Kire

T
theopenlife Dec 1, 2007

I'm glad you were (in some way) encouraged. I feel like David Brainard, minus the high points.

T
theopenlife Dec 1, 2007

Kire, thank you for the words from Taylor. I've read his book, but it must have been abridged because I did not recognize the first part about going through his library and possessions regularly. That was what I did when I was first converted, but now I am again being challenged, not by what I presently own, but by what I could own. Not by how I have spent my time, but how I may spend it yet.

I have never witnessed a pastor tell his congregation, "give away your spare coats, and if you have spares of something else, Christ has commanded you to give it." It makes me feel like an outcast, to be the only one who feels this, and it is so hard to live it without like-minded companionship.

Thanks, my friends.

sermonindex Dec 2, 2007

Yes, Thank you Brother Kire. Hudson Taylor has always been one of my favorite missionaries and Authors. I've marveled at his life and his quotes stay with you.
I've forgotten many of the books I've read over the years, but Brother Taylor stays, I suppose because he truly lived it all and then in his last days, spoke so humbly of himself and his work. Thank you!


Brother Michael, you're not alone - the others who have lived this way just don't let their left hand know what their right is doing.

Thank you for the smile and Merry Christmas!

T
theopenlife Dec 2, 2007

Others who have lived this way just don't let their left hand know what their right is doing.

That was a tremendous blessing. Thank you for such a word in season.

I have heard that Tozer rode the bus each day to spare money for other uses.

sermonindex Dec 2, 2007

This thread was a blessing to me Michael & Kire.
Puts life in it's proper perspective.
Great timing too.

Thank [i]you[/i].

C
crsschk Dec 2, 2007

Outstanding this, in it's entirety.

Great post.

I feel this affecting everything I do, every minute I spend. I feel powerless to really enjoy giving EVERY MINUTE and CENT to service of some sort, and I feel terrible for not having boundless affection for all people.

Everyone tells me, "don't sweat it, don't be legalistic", but since when was it legalism to obey the most clear commands of Christ?

Hesitate to comment ... but there is the voice of the accuser to consider just as well. What comes to mind;

[i]And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.[/i] Col 3:15

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[i]Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.[/i] Rom 15:33


L
Logic Dec 2, 2007

theopenlife wrote:
It's not even for man's opinion, I just like two different sweaters. I like clothes that match. I also have six pairs of pants, in variations of blue, brown, or black. At the time when I bought them, I could have used the money for something directly beneficial to God's kingdom. The next time I buy pants, this will again haunt me.

[b]Act 5:4[/b][color=990000]While it remained, was it not your own? and after it was sold, was it not in your own power?[/color]

You are not being legalistic, but over scrupiulous.

T
theopenlife Dec 3, 2007

Thanks to everyone who has demonstrated similar sentiments, and given some balance.

Logic, you quoted Acts 5:4

"While it remained, was it not your own? and after it was sold, was it not in your own power?"

I read that passage the day before yesterday and thought, "in what way was it his own? Doesn't he have to give an account of how he uses it? And if he knowingly uses it for selfish purposes when [i]more good[/i] could obviously come from other uses, is that acceptable?"

I concluded that, for one, one can rarely be certain which way will do more good in the end. What we [i]can[/i] know is our motive for withholding something. Ananias was free to keep his home and, as others did, to use it as a place of hospitality and fellowship. But, if I may twist the old proverb, he wanted to "have his praise and keep it, too."

"He that has two coats, let him give to him that has none." [Luke 3:11]

I considered the issue more today, asking, "what is a [i]coat[/i]?"

A [i]coat[/i] is a necessary item, useful to the life which it preserves, and useful for godliness, so much as it grants life for the expression of it. The [i]coat[/i] is therefore any needful or beneficial item which one is justified in having for the sake of one's service to the Lord. Paul asked for his friends to bring his cloak and the scrolls, and especially the parchments. These items were useful to him. Had Paul two cloaks or identical sets of study materials, I'm fairly certain he would have distributed as the Lord showed need.

When the day is done it is both difficult and damaging to spend time determining what others ought to have or sell. I am no man's accountant. I am responsible to inventory my own things, to ask myself what may be put to better use or kept for my own service. Paul had his tent-making tools for times of work. He taught others to be hospitable, which requires a home and means of making guests at least reasonably comfortable. A guest means blankets and food. Food means dishes and pots... means dish soap... means towels... means clothes-lines...

In the end, I see that we are to be practical, finding contentment in the substance of Christ. "Life does not consist in the abundance of possessions." [Luke 12:15] I will do best to have either cheap hobbies, or lucrative ones, and in both cases, to let entertainment be edifying or evangelical.

I have heard of men who go fishing and listen to sermons on mp3 players, or pray while walking about with a camera. If we'd spread our catch for the needy, we'd have treasure in heaven. A photo could be framed and set with a verse, to glorify God for a co-worker.

The Christian life seems to be that of a multi-tasking, sometimes enterprising, frugal sort.

God help me to be willing.

L
Logic Dec 3, 2007

theopenlife wrote:
"While it remained, was it not your own? and after it was sold, was it not in your own power?"
I read that passage the day before yesterday and thought, "in what way was it his own? Doesn't he have to give an account of how he uses it? And if he knowingly uses it for selfish purposes when [i]more good[/i] could obviously come from other uses, is that acceptable?"
Yes, I had $100.oo, I used it "for selfish purposes"
I want out for a dinner and a movie.
Why couldn't I do that with out being condemnd for it?

why don't you get down right scrupulous with everything that God gives you?
He gives you breath($$$), would you tell a joke that is niether edifying or evangelical, it is just plain humorous(dinner & movie) when you could have blessed God with that very same breath?

sermonindex Dec 3, 2007

As many love to quote the scripture," one gives as he has purposed in his heart, cheerfully". How many do the followup question with, How's my heart?

G
ginnyrose Dec 4, 2007

Brother,

Please allow me to share with you what I do. Before I go shopping I ask the LORD to direct me in my shopping expidition, so that whatever purshases I made will be wise ones. I, too, have had the LORD tell me to wait, and "do not buy now" and went ahead and did so, to my grief later. If you pray this, being serious about it, you will be much more at peace in your decision making when shopping.

This works for me....

ginnyrose

E
enid Dec 5, 2007

For the record, here in England, everyone needs two coats!

God bless.

B
BenWilliams Dec 5, 2007

Hey openlife,

I wanted to say something to you about this, but I feel that I am lacking for words.

You see, since I was very young, I grew up feeling exactly as you do about all of this, even what you mentioned about Brainerd struck a chord with me, I have his diary that is edited by Edwards, and I still haven't finished it, because it is very difficult for me to read what he went through, without going through a similar internal turmoil.

But as I have studied this, and wrestled with it over the last 15 years, I have come to one conclusion, "store not up treasures on earth". I think that statement brings me to the root of the issue.

A.W. Tozer speaking to Leonard Ravenhill once said, "You know Len, when I stand before the Lord, I won't be so worried about what I have done, it's what I haven't done that bothers me."

I know it's not an exact quote, but it's close enough. You see, I have, and it appears that you along with me struggle with the issue of what we have not done.

Leonard Ravenhill once said, "when you get to heaven Jesus isn't going to ask you what you did, He's going to ask you why you did it."

I am not sure that there is a balance, or an understanding that will ease the suffering of this issue, I believe it is one of those inner turmoils that God has planted inside of us to cause us to fall upon Him.

As you probably know, Brainerd saw power in his preaching like not many have ever heard or seen, people falling down weeping while preaching through a drunken interpreter.

I am going to make a wager openlife, and say that this probably does not only plague your spending, or the things you have, but also every other aspect of your life concerning holiness, and whether you are fulfilling God's will for your life.

Because that is the root that I came to, it was not the spending, it was not the movie I watched whether it was good or bad, it was not did I eat too much or too little, but it was and is a constant cloud that surrounds my life, and that is that I want to know that I am doing the will of God.

No amount of comfort from the brethren, no amount of help on each particular issue solved the thing. But that cloud has been the driving factor that has lead me continually to a place of brokeness and repentance before God.

That is what Brainerd went through, and critics who read his story go, well Brainerd just didn't understand the grace of God. That is exactly what people have told me my whole life, but they are wrong, I believe Brainerd had such a revelation from God of his own sinfulness, and the wickedness of his own heart, that he saw this very issue, the need for surrender on every plane of his existence.

That issue plagued him his whole life, he was never free from it, but he allowed God to use that to bring him to that place of brokeness.

One last thing, in regards a little bit about the spending. God has given me a little bit of grace in that area in recent years. This is my advice to you on the subject of things you have, and what you spend.

When God places a need in front of you that you are able to meet, then do your best to meet that need. The scripture tells us, "let each man give as he has purposed in his own heart". I believe this applies more to real world scenarios than it does to tithes in a church.

There is a place where Paul addresses those who are wealthy, those who have a lot of money, and land, and many houses, his counsel to them is that they be always ready to give. Mind this, his counsel is not, give away everything you have except for one shirt, one coat, one pair of shoes, etc...

He just says be ready always to give, if you have purposed in your heart to meet the needs of those that God brings you, then there is a measure of peace that you will find on this issue. I myself enjoy video games tremendously, they are expensive, and I try not to over spend on them. But I have peace before the Lord, because If he brings me a need, I am ready to do whatever is necessary to meet that need.

I hope this helps a bit, and if you want to talk more about it, by all means keep posting and asking questions, or pm me. I'm always on.

sermonindex Dec 5, 2007

optional commands of Jesus caught my eye.

one other optional command in the Christian community is regarding the swearing of oaths. it is very common for Christians to take oaths in court, in legal documents, and elsewhere. we are considered a Christian nation, but you have to swear an oath to take office in the government.

one could argue well that the point is "let your yes be yes, and your no be no" and that we are being told not to lie. but the command is "do not swear an oath."

regarding your dilemma on two coats. we must deliberate and decide in life. you can give everything away, or nothing. but the point of Jesus is that we should be compassionate with the needy, especially when we have an abundance of gifts from God.

this doesn't mean that you should accord with the request of every beggar in Boston or Washington DC. you would never get out of there, if you did because you would give away your cab fare and car.

i think that providing food and clothing to homeless people in cities may not be such a good thing. it can sustain people living very marginal existences on the street and keep them there. the feeding programs in DC sustain a large community of homeless people living difficult lives. perhaps these people might be better off if they left the city and the homeless shelters and agencies provided rural living facilities and job training.

the point is that someone asking you for your second coat may be better off without it, and you, in the active presence of the Holy Spirit, must make the decision, with such guidance as is provided you.

on things such as this, the rule is, there is no rule. discernment is your answer, so stop fretting about it.

bubbaguy

T
theopenlife Dec 6, 2007

Ben, thank you very much for your answer. It summed it up well. As you mentioned, the issue isn't that I don't see grace; it is that I HAVE seen something of grace. To not respond more fully in thankfulness is grievous. Of course, the proper response will itself come by grace.

He who has been forgiven much, loves much.

BubbaGuy, thank you for your encouragement, and Giinyrose, too.

I just began a book called, "The rare jewel of Christian Contentment" by Jeremiah Borroughs. I think it will be useful here. Anyone read it?

B
BrianPaul Dec 6, 2007

This has been an encouraging thread. It is so encouraging to me to see people with convictions. Be as radical a you can be, and pray to win over your fellow brothers and sisters in your church body, that the power of God may be seen to those where you live. One of the things i read as reading this thread was the difficulty of feeling like the only one that feels this way. When your convictions and obedience seem so distant from others. I can say i resonate with this well. As the past couple months have been a radical revival in my life when it comes to forsaking all for the sake of gaining or knowing Christ. As you know many will tell you not to be legalistic about your neglect for worldly enjoyments, and creature comforts, but i say "i am gaining Christ". Wouldn't we rather have Christ than a little enjoyment. Joy is greater than enjoyment. As Ravenhill says "entertainment is the devil's substitute for joy". When you have the love of God shed abroad in your heart you are willing to sacrifice all for His sake.
Again, my brother this is so encouraging to me to see your desire to live out the Heavenly life.
I dont post to much on SI even though I am on everyday. But i did decide to post something to encourage you all with something some of you may have read: The Loneliness Of The Christian By Tozer.

The loneliness of the Christian results from his walk with God in an ungodly world, a walk that must often take him away from the fellowship of good Christians as well as from that of the unregenerate world. His God-given instincts cry out for companionship with others of his kind, others who can understand his longings, his aspirations, his absorption in the love of Christ; and because within his circle of friends there are so few who share his inner experiences he is forced to walk alone.

The unsatisfied longings of the prophets for human understanding caused them to cry out in their complaint, and even our Lord Himself suffered in the same way.

The man [or woman] who has passed on into the divine Presence in actual inner experience will not find many who understand him. He finds few who care to talk about that which is the supreme object of his interest, so he is often silent and preoccupied in the midst of noisy religious shoptalk. For this he earns the reputation of being dull and over-serious, so he is avoided and the gulf between him and society widens.

He searches for friends upon whose garments he can detect the smell of myrrh and aloes and cassia out of the ivory palaces, and finding few or none he, like Mary of old, keeps these things in his heart.

It is this very loneliness that throws him back upon God. His inability to find human companionship drives him to seek in God what he can find nowhere else."

B
BenWilliams Dec 6, 2007

Hey BrianPaul,

I really appreciate what you posted from Tozer, it really, really breaks my heart. That is who I am, and I am always searching as it says for the smell of myrhh, but never finding it in truth.

It is so lonely sometimes, even though I have a wonderful wife, the lonliness can be staggering at times, and I have many friends, but still that lonliness...

I will find the water that the deer pants for, for there is the satisfaction and the rest of my soul.

This discussion is locked.

Archived
1 of 20 posts