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Christmas Banned ?

sermonindex Dec 2, 2007

The info I'll quote from another thread below, I already knew about - but what I also know is that Jesus was born in September but was "conceived" in December - so because of that - we enjoy the Christmas Hymns very much and have had them on since Thanksgiving and the fact that we can witness more easily during this season - where normally people won't hear HIS Name.

Christmas is an ancient word coming from two words meaning the mass of Christ:

Christos (Gr.) - Messiah (Heb.); "anointed"
Maesse - Mass; the transubstantiation or the changing of the bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Christ.
Christ mass is the calling down of god from heaven transforming the wafer into the literal body of the messiah at the communion table. This is a continual "unbloody" sacrifice for sin in contradiction to Heb.10:10, 12, 14

Luke 16:15 - that which is "highly esteemed"
(elevated) among men is abomination in the sight of God.

abomination - Greek: bdelugma - a detestation;
idolatry; a stinking unacceptable sacrifice; abhor;unholy
I Corinthians 2:14 - The natural man recieveth not the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him:neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

natural - Greek: psuchikos - sensitive; animate;
sensual; non-spiritual The pagan festival of the Christmass is a tradition that is "highly esteemed" among the peoples of the world. If it were of God (spiritual), the world would look upon it as foolish. The gangster, the thief, the
homosexual, the prostitute, the abortionist all hate the word of God when He said "Thou shalt not", yet they will party and involve themselves in the wickedest immoral acts while embracing the traditions of the Christmass. Many who attend church regularly,while refusing to live righteously, keep it as their favorite festival and holiday. The business person who is unethical and immoral in business dealings, at
Christmas time, will disavow their marriage to have a sexual encounter at a "Christmas party" while getting drunk, all in the name of Jesus' birth. It's a time of compromise for many who call themselves "Christian",setting aside witnessing and calling men to repentance
"till January". Playboy magazine has their "Christmas issue", while liquor stores decorate with wreaths and "holiday cheer". Christians are commanded to separate from such ungodliness (II Cor. 6:14-17). Celebrants
stuff and glut themselves with material things and all kinds of delectable foods, while the world is destitute and starving, physically and spiritually.
Christmas is a time when true believers are expected to sit down at a family gathering passing out "free forgiveness" to unrepentant sinners as they curse and tell their off color stories. Forgiveness is never an initial act. It is always a response to repentance.
Paul said we are not to eat or communicate with
brothers living in rebellion against God. We are not to partake or walk with these unfruitful works of darkness as they walk disorderly and not in the ways of God (I Cor. 5:9, 11; Eph. 5:11; II Thess. 3:6,14).
(We will be persecuted for this kind of testimony).
The United States comprises approximately 4.6% of the world's population. This minute segment of the world is partying and lulling themselves into an easy religion with no striving or wrestling over sin at the Christmas season, while the world is dying in starvation, squalor, and disease without Christ. To celebrate Christ is to honour him. To honour him is to keep his sayings (John 14:23). If we are to honour
him, we will dispense with vain traditions. We will get Christ out of the mass. We will rid ourselves of the heathen festival of the mass (Christmass). We will throw out the pagan birthday of Hercules (December 25th). We will remember (celebrate) Jesus' birth everyday and never will we separate it from the resurrection. There is only one pure ritual. It is not
Christmas, Easter, or Valentines. James tells us,
"Pure religion (threskeia - ritual or ceremony) and undefiled (uncontaminated) it to visit the fatherless and widows "in their affliction" (the church under persecution) and keep yourselves unspotted (holy-pure-unmixed) from the world (James 1:27)."
Jesus said, "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto the
least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me (Matt. 25:40)." This is the true ritual (religion)with which we are to celebrate Jesus daily. All the things that man esteems: positions, awards, money,titles, recognition, tradition, material things, and the seeking of self is an abomination to God. The only
thing that honours Christ is a seeking and concern for others (spiritual and physical) and never self (Phillipians 2:4,5; I Cor. 10:24). The "natural"(sensual-sinful) man who loves and highly esteems the traditions of this world, always despises the atoning blood of Christ. They hold Jesus' words in contempt,refusing to live in daily repentance and submission to
the commandment of God. Man will not cease from sin until God moves on his heart to live holy
(pure-unmixed) before him throughout the year.

The Christmas tree now so common among-us, was equally common in Pagan Rome and Pagan Egypt. In Egypt, that tree was the Palm Tree; in Rome it was the "fir".

The mother of Adonis, the sun god and great
mediatorial divinity, was mystically said to have been changed into a tree, and when in that state to have brought forth a divine son. If the mother was the tree, the son must have been recognized as "Man the Branch" (a corruption of Zechariah's prophecy concerning Christ, the branch of God - Zech. 6:12).
This accounts for the putting of the yule-log into the fire Christmas Eve and the appearing of the Christmas tree the next morning. As Zero-Ashta, "the seed of woman," which name also signified "born of the fire"(the fire god), he has to enter the fire on "Mother night" (December 24th in the ancient world), that he
may be born the next day (December 25th) out of it, as the "Branch of God", or the Tree that brings all divine gifts to men. Thus, we see on Christmas morning the gifts under and around the tree as his gifts to his worshipers. December 25th was known far and wide throughout the pagan world as the exact birthday of Adonis the tree god (Allah) of Babylon. This Venus-Tree worship, along with her consort Baal (the sun), corrupted Israel, invoking the wrath of God for their idolatry. This goddess of the groves was
imported from Babylon (Iraq) into Israel upon the
marriage of Ahab, King of Northern Israel, to Jezebel,the daughter of Ethbaal, a priest of the Ashtoreth of Babylon (I Kings 16:31). God's judgement for such wickedness has been to purge Israel for 2600 years with sword, famine, and pestilence (Jer. 29:17-19).
Jesus was born of a virgin. He was God in the flesh.He died and shed his blood as an atonement for sin that all who believe in him will have eternal life.
However, Christmas (the Saturnalia) and The Christmas Tree (Venus - the groves) have nothing to do with his birth. We have corrupted ourselves.

IF YOU CHOOSE TO BE A PART OF THIS THING ON DECEMBER 25 THAT IS ONE THING, BUT PLEASE DO NOT PROMOTE SUCH SYNCRETISM TO OTHER BELIEVERS.

Does anyone else here feel offended at anyone saying "Merry Christmas" ?


Just felt a Vote was in order so that we know whether we should or should not be wishing each other a Merry Christmas on the Forum.

Thank you all!

M
Miccah Dec 2, 2007

If we would stop talking or saying things that might offend someone, these forums would not exsist.

I truly enjoy posting and reading postings from others on the Sermonindex. I love being challanged by others who have different beliefs, or opposite views than I have on subjects. I think that these differnces help us all grow to a certain degree, regardless if we agree, or disagree 100%. We always need to be compassionate with others views and beliefs.

But to stop saying Merry Christmas because someone might be offended by it has crossed the line of compassion. Where does it stop in relationship to offending someone? It may offend me that some of you promote being a Baptist over a Catholic, House Church over Temple, not drinking over drinking, but it is in no way my position to tell you that you cannot say something about these topics. To do so would be me trying to control the way and feel of these forums by hard handed influence.

As long as the moderators on Sermonindex have no problem with anyone saying Merry Christmas, and the general population understands that by saying Merry Christmas is in celebration of the Lord, I have no problem with it.

Merry Chirstmas everyone.

sermonindex Dec 2, 2007

I liked this part brother -

Quote: "I truly enjoy posting and reading postings from others on the Sermonindex. I love being challanged by others who have different beliefs, or opposite views than I have on subjects. I think that these differnces help us all grow to a certain degree, regardless if we agree, or disagree 100%. We always need to be compassionate with others views and beliefs."


Amen, it does help us to grow.

Thank you !

D
destinysweet Dec 2, 2007

and in the words of Tiny Tim
God Bless us every one!

T
theopenlife Dec 2, 2007

Hey there, HE_Reigns and Miccah. The three of us seem to be talking a bit a lately.

Ironically enough, this winter season will be the first in which I do not go out of my way to celebrate the advent of Christ. I cannot deny that some of this change is for the sake of that word "Christ Mass", which is especially repugnant to me, given the deceit which hangs upon my catholic family. But neither is that the greatest motivator.

It is true, many of the Yule-tide traditions are retrofitted pagan rituals. (Although, depending who you ask, there is a large degree of variation about which false deity is related to what aspect of the day: You say Hercules, he says Mithra.) Never the less, it is shocking to see how many folkloric falsehoods we support throughout the event. We all agree that Jesus Christ was not born on December 25th. No wise men attended his birth, nor did the shepherds witness any star. There is also no indication that the angels sang choruses in the field.

Never mind the supposed omniscience and omniPRESENTS of Nicholas, patron saint of commercialism, who yearly sets himself up as God in the temples of God; namely to be worshiped in the little hearts of children as the supreme gift-giver. Although he wants kids to live by a system of law, he can be appeased on that night by six-billion glasses of milk and cookies, glutton that he is.

Meanwhile, the monetary engine of holiday spending drives the nation to lavish millions of needless trinkets, gadgets, and vanity-pieces upon people who are already rich, compared to the millions who will this year die of starvation and neglect without having heard the hallowed message of Christ's first coming to the world. To put things into perspective, the average American budget for Christmas gifts is $859. [1]
This is just shy of the amount necessary to fund one GPA missionary for an entire year![2] It is enough to buy more than 50,000 gospel tracts [3] or 1,000 New Testaments[4]. It could purchase 300 Gospel-care kits for low-income families.

There is no doubt in my mind that this holiday is used and enjoyed by many sincere Christians who are quite clueless about the Eucharistic connotations of the word Christmas. To them it is simply a convenient time to celebrate the coming of Christ, to share the story with others, and to demonstrate gratitude and generosity towards loved ones. I don't fault anyone for those honorable motives. Nevertheless, I have made a personal determination to separate from the corruptions that are inherent to the seasonal gift system, the folklore, and that old tempter, mistletoe. I will not be relenting, however, from egg-nog, which I regard as a "winter drink" with no direct ties to Christmas, itself.

Jokes aside, the most greivious issue of all is that Christmas offers Christ without repentance or cost for most of those who celebrate the day. I would rather astonish my relatives with a card in June, explaining my sincere desire for them to join in thanksgiving for the first coming of Christ. A gift delivered in August, with the words, "Christ taught me to love you all year," may in the end be much more meaningful.

[1]http://americanresearchgroup.com/holiday/
[2]http://www.gfa.org/whynativemissions
[3]Http://www.americasprinter.com/price_guide.php?catalogid=2&stockid=3&uvcoatingid=3
[4]http://www.ibsdirect.com/showproduct.aspx?productid=190&SSAID=211163

sermonindex Dec 2, 2007

Thank you Des!

Thank you Michael for being open and honest. I was raised Catholic - I do understand.
I don't decorate or do many of the things that most folks do. Used to, but I wanted it to be what the Songs are about. Basically just a quiet time of reflection for me.

I do appreciate your openness. You said it all well enough. I really do respect that.

Lord Bless and Thanks again.

sermonindex Dec 2, 2007

Brother, I do send cards with a Salvation message, which to me is important for my unsaved family & friends and normally if I can afford to, a Christ centered gift - so I wanted to Thank you for this link.

Wonderful ! :-D

http://www.ibsdirect.com/showproduct.aspx?productid=190&SSAID=211163

Bless GOD.

C
crsschk Dec 2, 2007

Not sure where you clipped the original from but there is a word that comes to mind;

Peevish

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8498&forum=35]~ Christmas Links at SermonIndex ~[/url]

Merry Christmas :-)

sermonindex Dec 2, 2007


Greetings all :-) I don't really 'celebrate' Christmas, although I do enjoy singing truth in carols and hymns about Jesus at any time of year.

Annie,

Your clip which Ray posted in the Divorce thread, (MikeB), informed me for the first time about most of those angles. I have resisted 'O Tannenbaum' which is a worship song to the tree although I hadn't understood fully, why it was wrong.

theopenlife said

Never the less, it is shocking to see how many folkloric falsehoods we support throughout the event. [b][u]We all agree[/u] that Jesus Christ was not born on December 25th. No wise men attended his birth, nor did the shepherds witness any star. There is also no indication that the angels sang choruses in the field.[/b]
[u]Oh no we don't[/u]! :-)

Brother,

I [u]do[/u] believe the star appeared to the wise men (not the shepherds) and that the shepherds saw the angels, heard the message he brought from God about the birth of the Saviour (in September and fulfilling much prophecy) and heard the angels praising God, [i]and[/i] went and found Him [u]because the Bible tells us they did[/u].

How can you entertain uncertainty of these things?

Maybe I can answer part of that question myself... in that the best lies are woven through with some absolute truth, and people who lack discernment cannot distinguish between them, although they may know there is truth in there because we can all witness to the truth.

I don't mean that you lack discernment, but now, as a Christian, you do have the power to divide between truth and fiction, and you do have to take the time and trouble to do that, so you don't inadvertenly [i]reject[/i] truth - as this is also spiritually risky, and should be avoided.


What do you say, now?

sermonindex Dec 2, 2007

I have no sovereign authority nor does anyone else to control what one says or believes on any forum,or for that matter anywhere. My statement may have come accross stong,"IF YOU CHOOSE TO BE A PART OF THIS THING ON DECEMBER 25 THAT IS ONE THING, BUT PLEASE DO NOT PROMOTE SUCH SYNCRETISM TO OTHER BELIEVERS",and I'm glad it did,but if you read it carefully you'll see the words "you","choose","that","but","please",and "promote",which hold great significance. If truth was dependent upon people's feelings being offended or a mere Vote of hands then we'd be better off on some other forum which holds to relativism/secularism as a worldview. RayinPA...for now

T
theopenlife Dec 3, 2007

Hey there, Dorcas, I think you misunderstood me. I DO believe that the shepherds heard the angels and gathered to see the newborn Savior. I also believe the wise men came.

I just don't believe the wise men were there at the same time as the shepherds. Since Herod ordered the murder of all children under two, it seems apparent that the wise men didn't show up until a year or so after Christ's birth.

This means the shepherds would not have witnessed the star. As for the angels, yes they spoke or even shouted; we just don't know if they [i]sang[/i]. To date, I've never seen a scripture which clearly indicated any angels singing.

Ironically, a catholic website has this nativity scene which I find to be far more accurate than the one which was on display at the protestant bible college I attended:

[image][img align=left]http://www.catholicsupply.com/christmas/_borders/54567.jpg[/img]

sermonindex Dec 3, 2007


Hi Michael

I just don't believe the wise men were there at the same time as the shepherds.
Neither do I, and I almost mentioned in my previous post that the Bible doesn't say the angels sang, but it does definitely say there was a heavenly host praising God.

What you wrote before made it look as if you didn't believe the biblical account, rather than that you were merely challenging Christmas card perceptions. ;-)

sermonindex Dec 3, 2007

I love Christmas. I know Christ was not born on December 25th... I know all that. I know it was orginally a Catholic rip off of a pagan holiday. I also know some Christians try to avoid the holiday all together because of their convictions about it.

BUT... so what? There is nothing wrong with commemorating God being manifested in the flesh for the ultimate purpose of giving us the gift of salvation.

There is nothing wrong with Bing Crosby crooning in the back ground as you drink egg nog by the fire with your sweet bride. There is nothing wrong with the excitement children feel on that morning as they come downstairs and see the gifts under the tree.

We can keep the emphasis on Christ. We dont have to get caught up in the commercialism and the "black friday" sales.

I have met many Christians who love to tell us that we're worshipping pagan gods by celebrating Christmas. But perhaps they should read the Word concerning eating meat sacrificed to idols, or one man keeping one day holy... and another man keeps a different day holy.

Perhaps some of these folks are sincere. I think some are. I also think some folks go in that direction because it makes them feel more "holy" than other believers. This problem is as old as the writings of Paul.

Christmas has never done me any harm, and in fact, it has done me much good. It has warmed my heart, brought family together, helped us focus more on Christ, and teach our children about giving. My favorite part of Christmas is our "birthday cake" for Jesus that we eat after Christmas dinner.

So I would like to say to all those who oppose Christmas... instead of telling us to stop pushing Christmas onto other believers... y'all should relax and sing another round of "Silent Night".

Merry Kristmas!

Krispy

M
MSeaman Dec 3, 2007

Hooray, Krispy!

C
crsschk Dec 3, 2007

Christmas has never done me any harm, and in fact, it has done me much good. It has warmed my heart, brought family together, helped us focus more on Christ, and teach our children about giving.

Will second that amen ... Indeed brother, there is much of the same here. Though raised Catholic my parents were very good about teaching us the meaning behind everything and I do not want to get into all the troubling aspects that we are all aware of.

But for being kids it is all the things you mentioned above. It would be redundant to go into what might already contained in prior postings ... My parents were big on Christmas, it will always remain one of the most heart warming and precious times to reflect on. They would go all out for three of us kids and in todays times ... Everybody has different issues with materialism and so forth but by and large we were raised with fairly strict but gracious, loving parents. So Christmas day was always a big production and always full of surprises.

My reason for even stating this much is from reading what you mentioned Krispy ... what came flooding back into memory was just how much they truly loved us. Presents and all, even then it went far beyond the gifts ... it was the givers.

This year will be different truly, my Ma now with the Lord won't be around to splash the house will color and decorations, creating that special atmosphere of sight, smell and sound.

Thanks brother for drawing some of this out of me, bitter sweet but more sweet and precious than anything.

sermonindex Dec 3, 2007

Thanks brother for drawing some of this out of me, bitter sweet but more sweet and precious than anything.

Christmas has that effect on people, doesnt it brother. A time for warm memories, and a time to create new ones.

Krispy

R
roadsign Dec 3, 2007

I say: T’is the season to be shrewd! Use Christmas as a tool to build the kingdom! Presently I am working on a message entitled, “Preserve the Gift, not the Wrappings”. The aim is to help parishioners distinguish the wrappings (traditions and culture ex consumerism) from the Gift. Without realizing it many are more loyal to the wrappings than to the Gift.

These days we are seeing the radical and indiscriminant expulsion of “old ideas”. Thus this theme urgently needs addressing. Indeed we can (and should) toss out a lot of the wrappings, but must be careful to preserve the Gift.

Text - Simeon’s response when he saw the Christchild:
“For my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared in the sight of all nations: a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and the glory of your people Israel." Luke 2:30-32

Things to ponder: What is the Gift? How do we “preserve this Gift”?

Diane

sermonindex Dec 3, 2007

Boy oh boy... you women pastors...!!

;-)

Krispy

H
HomeFree89 Dec 3, 2007

"One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord..." Romans 14:5-6a

T
theopenlife Dec 4, 2007

Krispy, I fully empathize with your joyful post. It accurately describes my own position until a few months ago. In all honesty it is very inconvenient to feel my conscience binding me to this "disambiguation project." Perhaps I will be over it by next year? :-?

In the meantime, I had my first test today. Get ready for laughs (or groans).

I came into work (I'm a server) and found a big box of "Merry Christmas" buttons. Everyone of my co-workers (quite a few very blasphemous individuals) dove right into the "Christmas spirit", putting these three-inch buttons on their uniforms.

Immediately I thought, "what do I do? If I put one on, I'm contradicting my belief that this matters. One-billion catholics in the world practice Mass and support Transubstantiation, including some of my family and a third of my state."

Not wanting to make a big deal of nothing, I put the button on anyway. Ten seconds later, with a groan, I took it off. "I can't lie to myself. I don't wish people a merry Mass of any kind! I want them to know Jesus."

Soon a co-worker noticed. Then another.
One of them asked, "where's your button?"
"I've chosen to not wear it."
"How come?"
"I guess because I recently learned that the word comes from 'Christ Mass', and I don't believe that the bread really becomes God, you know. If the button said, 'Merry Advent', or just 'Christ', I'd wear it. But since I don't believe in Mass, I've decided to be honest with myself and not wear one."

My friend chuckled, and said, "Alright, I respect that. But if the District Manager sees you without one, you'll get written up for being out of uniform."

"I doubt it. They wouldn't make an essentially religious item into a mandatory piece of uniform."

"Hmm. Good point."

A bit later a manager saw me without a button.

"Spotts, get a button from the box in the back."

"Oh! About that..." But he walked away before I could muster my meager courage - over a little button!

Later he looked again and said, "Spotts, man, you still don't have your button on. What's the deal?"

"I've chosen not to wear it, um, I guess for religious reasons." (By that way, I'm laughing to myself now. My coworkers couldn't believe it. Of all people, they probably thought I [b]would[/b] be the one to wear it.)
"Are you serious? What religion are you?"
"...Christian."
"Ooookay."

Some of them know that I went to bible college and they see me reading spiritual books during breaks. Afterwards some were curious and asked why, then, I wasn't wearing the button. I told them that I believe everything the bible says about Christ coming, but that I want to celebrate it differently, away from all of the other traditions. Probably because of my track record for friendliness towards all of my coworkers, no one seemed offended, just a bit confused.

I don't suppose I could make a button that says, "American Advent Memorial Day" ?

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