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Charles Finney (intresting info)

sermonindex Aug 3, 2003

No other person has influenced the subject of revival in America like Charles Grandison Finney. Nor did anyone better represent the untamed spirit of frontier America in the 19th century than Finney. His life and ministry spanned continents and controversy. In America, Finney was considered the father of modern revivalism with over 500,000 conversions resulting from his ministry. Historians claim that in many ways, Finney laid a well-paved road for mass evangelists who would come after him—Dwight L. Moody, Billy Sunday, and Billy Graham.Born in 1792, Finney's earliest desire was to become a lawyer. However, God had another direction in mind for him. Even though he began to fulfill his dreams by studying law and working in law offices, Finney was restless and struggled with the fate of his eternal destiny.In his published memoirs, Finney said he came to a point of decision—the question of his soul's salvation had to be settled before he could continue his studies. A well-chronicled experience tells how he left his house one morning for a walk. After a quarter of a mile, "I turned to go up into the woods, I recollect to have said, 'I will give my heart to God, or I never will come down from [here].' I had gone into the woods after an early breakfast; when I returned to the village, I found it was dinner time."During the time Finney was alone with God, he remembered kneeling in prayer and being converted. The event was so profound that he said it was as if "waves of liquid love [were flowing] throughout his body."The next day Finney announced that he would no longer seek a career in law, but instead would become a minister of the gospel. He was licensed to preach in December 1823; and soon after, the Female Mission Society of Western New York commissioned him as a missionary to Jefferson County. No one realized that God was preparing to ignite a revival fire that would sweep across the country.Finney fearlessly addressed his listeners with passionate revivalism, never side-stepping the awfulness of hell and unbelief. Many have likened him to an Andrew Jackson in the pulpit, concluding that Finney preached a gospel that was written on buckskin. In 1825, Finney was asked to preach in western New York. The results were immediate and exciting. Many within the crowd wanted to know how they could receive assurance of salvation.The response that followed in towns such a Utica and Rome, New York, was characterized by the same hunger to know Christ. His ministry in Rochester from 1830-31 has been called the greatest year of spiritual awakening in American history. Historians tell how shops and markets closed, so people from every walk of life could attend the meetings. Local taverns went out of business as the hearts of people were changed and softened to God's redemptive message.Finney believed that true repentance and faith in Christ—a turning away from sin and to God—were the keys to spiritual conversion. Said Finney, "Probably when we get to heaven, our views, joys, and holy exercises, will so far surpass anything that we have ever experienced in this life, that we shall be hardly able to recognize that we had any religion while in this world."Earlier in his career, Finney regarded himself a self-made theological man, claiming he "had read nothing on the subject except my Bible." However, later he taught pastoral theology at Oberlin College in Ohio, where he also served as college president and wrote two books on systematic theology.

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mikesaad Aug 4, 2003

I've always been interested in Charles Finney and have long been a student of his writings. I've been looking for his book entitled "Revival Lectures" for nearly a year but I have not been able to find it. I have found it in electronic format but since the book has been out of print for years I'm unable to locate a copy. I've read excerpts from this book as well as other books he authored and they are very good.Finney is a firm believer and teacher that revival comes through prayer and a deep hunger from God's people to for holiness and his word.Excellent reading if you can find some of his writings.

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todd Aug 4, 2003

I would recommend you to www.truthinheart.com. The site is run by Richard Friedrich and he has been in the process of reviving Finney's true work along with other holiness works. I own a copy of "Lectures on Revivals of Religion" unabridged but have not read it yet. I have found it very intriguing to read about how men have misrepresented Finney's work by editing and changing it. And due to these changes his work has largely been misunderstood. Check out this link to read about some of it. http://truthinheart.com/Fairchild-Finney.html

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mikesaad Aug 4, 2003

Excellent website! I'll finally own my copy of "Revival Lectures" after all. I look forward to spending some time on that website to see what they have to offer.Thanks Todd.

sermonindex Aug 4, 2003

If you are intrested there is a copy of "Revival Lectures by Charles G. Finney" on ebay.comHB. Used. Fleming Revell. 534pp.Time left: 23 hours 57 minsCurrent bid: US $0.99http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&;item=3541397147&category=29361this is a great deal.. if you are intrested in having a physical copy get this one! :P

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mikesaad Aug 4, 2003

Thanks, I just place a bid for $15.00 since someone has already bid up to $10.50 (probably someone from here...hehe). Regardless of whether I win the auction I'll purchase the some books from the website that was just recommended to us. They seem to have some great works that I would love to have.We'll see what happens with the auction, but even at $15.00 it's a great deal.Thanks again.

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todd Aug 4, 2003

Ok that's a pretty good deal but I am pretty sure that version has been edited and therefore changed from what Finney actually intended. I am not 100% about that but about 99.8%

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mikesaad Aug 4, 2003

Thanks Todd, I'll definitely be purchasing from that website that you referred me to.

sermonindex Aug 4, 2003

Hi Mike,BTW - I highly recommend you contact this great brother from Dust & Ashes Publications www.dustandashes.com Contacted them via email at info@dustandashes.com or feel free to call them at 231-72-BOOKSIf you ask him about the "Revival Lectures" I am sure he will probably be able to tell you which exact copies are the best to procure and which ones are abridged. And my guess is that he will have a few of them but if not then he will keep your name and let you know when he gets one in. If you feel inclined mention you heard about him from SermonIndex.net! :-D Let me know how it goes. ehhe

sermonindex Aug 4, 2003

also the same guy has ebay sales on sometimes. and right now he has: "CHARLES G FINNEY An Autobiography" a nice sweet old vintage one!Current bid: US $3.33 NUMBER OF PAGES: 402SIZE: 5 x 7 1/2PUBLISHER & DATE: The Salvationist Publishing & Supplies, Ltd. - Undatedhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&;category=29220&item=3542018845

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mikesaad Aug 5, 2003

Thanks. I'm actually reading a copy of his Autobiography right now, but the vintage book website was very good. He had a lot of interesting articles for sale in addition to some great books.Thanks again!

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JNugent Aug 11, 2003

Finney's autobiography has been a great influence on my life and ministry. I read parts of his "Lectures on Revival", which I found to be (extremely) wordy, but still very powerful. Whenever I type 'Finney' in a search engine, a bunch of sites pop up saying he was a heretic. In fact, my wife has been looking at homeschool curriculum through a company called Veritas Press, and the Autobiography of Charles Finney is part of the 'religion' curriculum. But the only reason it's a part of it is to 'expose the heresy' of Finney! Can someone please tell me what all the fuss is about Finney's doctrinal errors? I'm sure everyone makes a few mistakes doctrinally, but I just haven't seen anything with Finney that I find completely objectionable. It seems to me that he did some heavy damage to the Presbyterian five-point Calvinism of his day, and I see absolutely no problem with that! :) If you know anything about what I posted here, please email me or just post a response here. Thanks.

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philologos Aug 11, 2003

Hi Toddhad a quick look at the site but couldn't find the bit referred to below regarding others changing and misrepresenting Finney. Can you direct me more specifically?thanksRon Btodd wrote:I would recommend you to www.truthinheart.com. The site is run by Richard Friedrich and he has been in the process of reviving Finney's true work along with other holiness works. I own a copy of "Lectures on Revivals of Religion" unabridged but have not read it yet. I have found it very intriguing to read about how men have misrepresented Finney's work by editing and changing it. And due to these changes his work has largely been misunderstood. Check out this link to read about some of it. http://truthinheart.com/Fairchild-Finney.html

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jeremyhulsey Aug 11, 2003

The opposing views of Reformed Theology and Arminian Theology is the one thing that splits Protestant Christianity more than anything today.Finney's background was Arminianism and that has invited many attacks, even hate filled ones, from the Reformed camp. I have seen accusations that his method of evangelism made many hard to the Gospel, but I have seen studies with statistics claiming that as many as 80% of his converts held to a true confession of Christ until they died.Being in the A/G's I definately lean to the Arminian camp; however, I see valid and beneficial points also taught in the Reformed camp. Both groups have produced great men of God. Most of the attacks on Finney seem to come from those in the reformed camp who reel back in horror anytime someone mentions or teaches freewill.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

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todd Aug 12, 2003

Ron, I just clicked on the link which you copied from my post to make sure it worked and went to the right page and it did. Perhaps you didn't check this link yet. Here it is again. http://truthinheart.com/Fairchild-Finney.htmlThroughout the article and at the bottom of it are other links discussing this intriguing topic. I would love to hear what you think about it all.

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philologos Aug 14, 2003

ToddThanks. The link works fine. I was looking for specific areas of doctrine where the theology had been 'modified'. The article on your URL certainly gives the background. Do you know of specific doctrines where Fairchild modified Finner's teaching?

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todd Aug 15, 2003

Sorry Ron, not sure about that. As far as I understand it wasn't so much that he "modified the doctrine" but more that he made many abridgements, etc. Finney knew what he was doing and how to present truth. It seems that the "modifying" of his material has caused much confusion. I would recommend emailing Rick if you want more info. But I am happy to talk about it. In fact, I would like to hear more feedback from you because I don't quite get your question. Isn't any abridgement of someone's material a "modification" of their doctrine, in a sense?

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philologos Aug 15, 2003

Hi ToddI think a modification is always an alteration but there has often been a tendency for the next generation to fine-tune the pioneer's work. Melanchthon fine-tuned Luther; John Wesley fine-tuned himself! (see his footnotes in his Christian Perfection)Sometimes the fine-tuner may express the truth more precisely than the original and therebye the truth is not 'modified' but clarified. However, the tendency is for the fine-tuning to 'balance' the force of the original. This is always a loss. I often think the truth lies in holding both extremities at the same time rather than finding a compromise 'balance' in the middle. Donald Gee, a British Pentecostal Pioneer, used to stress the need for 'balance' so earnestly and persistently that his students reckoned he was 'unbalanced on the issue of balance.' ;-)

sermonindex Aug 15, 2003

It's intresting to note that Kathryn Kuhlman said once: "People bug me to write a theology book on what I believe, But I would have to write one every two years because my theology is constantly changing" (paraphrased)We are constantly being revealed more into the 'fulness of Christ' and 'truth', so therefore our beliefs can change as time and revelation progresses.

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todd Aug 15, 2003

Yeah I agree with both of you, and so does Finney. I really love his approach to theology. Here's some comments from his preface to his systematic theology."15. I have not yet been able to stereotype my theological views, and have ceased to expect ever to do so. The idea is preposterous. None but an omniscient mind can continue to maintain a precise identity of views and opinions. Finite minds, unless they are asleep or stultified by prejudice, must advance in knowledge. The discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world. True Christian consistency does not consist in stereotyping our opinions and views, and in refusing to make any improvement lest we should be guilty of change, but it consists in holding our minds open to receive the rays of truth from every quarter and in changing our views and language and practice as often and as fast, as we can obtain further information. I call this Christian consistency, because this course alone accords with a Christian profession. A Christian profession implies the profession of candour and of a disposition to know and obey all truth. It must follow, that Christian consistency implies continued investigation and change of views and practice corresponding with increasing knowledge. No Christian, therefore, and no theologian should be afraid to change his views, his language, or his practices in conformity with increasing light. The prevalence of such a fear would keep the world, at best, at a perpetual stand-still, on all subjects of science, and consequently all improvements would be precluded. Every uninspired attempt to frame for the church an authoritative standard of opinion which shall be regarded as an unquestionable exposition of the word of God, is not only impious in itself, but it is also a tacit assumption of the fundamental dogma of Papacy. The Assembly of Divines did more than to assume the necessity of a Pope to give law to the opinions of men; they assumed to create an immortal one, or rather to embalm their own creed, and preserve it as the Pope of all generations: or it is more just to say, that those who have adopted that confession of faith and catechism as an authoritative standard of doctrine, have absurdly adopted the most obnoxious principle of Popery, and elevated their confession and catechism to the Papal throne and into the place of the Holy Ghost. That the instrument framed by that assembly should in the nineteenth century be recognized as the standard of the church, or of an intelligent branch of it, is not only amazing, but I must say that it is highly ridiculous. It is as absurd in theology as it would be in any other branch of science, and as injurious and stultifying as it is absurd and ridiculous. It is better to have a living than a dead Pope. If we must have an authoritative expounder of the word of God, let us have a living one, so as not to preclude the hope of improvement. "A living dog is better than a dead lion;" so a living Pope is better than a dead and stereotyped confession of faith, that holds all men bound to subscribe to its unalterable dogmas and its unvarying terminology. 16. I hold myself sacredly bound, not to defend these positions at all events, but on the contrary, to subject every one of them to the most thorough discussion, and to hold and treat them as I would the opinions of any one else; that is, if upon further discussion and investigation I see no cause to change, I hold them fast; but if I can see a flaw in any one of them, I shall amend or wholly reject it, as a further light shall demand. Should I refuse or fail to do this, I should need to blush for my folly and inconsistency, for I say again, that true Christian consistency implies progress in knowledge and holiness, and such changes in theory and in practice as are demanded by increasing light. On the strictly fundamental questions in theology, my views have not, for many years, undergone any change, except as I have clearer apprehensions of them than formerly, and should now state some of them, perhaps, in some measure, differently from what I should then have done."

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