Paul Washer and Joel Osteen video

This is [u]MUST[/u] watch.

Amen

OK, we have ministries attacking ministries.
now if the attacking ministries get attacked and in turn the attacking ministries attack the ministries attacking the attacking ministries,would not this be the dog chasing its tail?

David

OK, we have ministries attacking ministries.

Yes, you are right. The ministry of light attacking darkness. The proclamation of the truth is an automatic assault on darkness. This is why the battle is always one-sided when the unadulterated truth is proclaimed without fear or shame. This video is a prime example; notice Osteen's name is not even mentioned, though while watching this video one can readily associate the light from the dark and "fit the shoe" so to speak. A holy minister is an awful weapon in the hands of God - the Word of God flowing through a sanctified vessel is matchless in power and efficacy - there is never any fight, for the conscience of wicked man is always immediately smitten and condemned.

It really makes no difference what spoken or written objection to truth the liberal theologian may bring; his heart is smitten and defeated even with no outward confession. Therefore, a man who simply preaches the truth with clean hands and pure heart, aligning himself uncompromisingly with the Word of God will [i]always[/i] be victorous in combatting darkness, no matter how learned or persuasive or eloquent the enemies of the light may be.

Brother Paul

Joel Olsteen was on Larry King not to long ago. Larry King asked him, "If I'm a Muslim or Hindu, will I go to hell?"

Olsteen beat around the bush and kind of compromised saying things like, "Only God can judge." and "I personally believe in Jesus Christ as my savior."

I think that is the one question that seperates the men from the boys. All this to say that Joel Olsteen's book was the NY Times Best seller for x amount of weeks straight.

Call it attacking or not, but Americans are decieved by Olsteen's gospel.

psalm1 wrote:
OK, we have ministries attacking ministries.
now if the attacking ministries get attacked and in turn the attacking ministries attack the ministries attacking the attacking ministries,would not this be the dog chasing its tail?

I think if people need exposing then we should pray and God will direct. Sometimes he will not allow you to say anything,cause he will deal directly with them.
If exposing is God then why not do it scripturally? I sense a Hate and disdain in this attacking.
Love not hate is to rule us.
Is joel wwrong? of course! How much have you prayed?
I see a u-tube posted and people celebrating on a brothers body.
Where is the love for your brother?
I have seen this young man take over his dads ministry from day one. He is so tender hearted and chokes up many times in the pulpit. I know he loves the Lord and he loves Gods people.
He is weak in evangelism but strong in encourageing.

My bible encourages me . Does this make encouragement wrong.

David

I'm in no way a member of the Joel Osteen fan club...just so you know.

However, to pit encouragement (which in Joel's case is not necessarily biblical encouragement) against preaching on the "total depravity" of an unregenerate man is a slightly unbalanced approach. Certainly if you live on Joel Osteens teachings you will DIE! But if you live only off of Paul Washers teachings you will DIE as well. There is a point where we have to move beyond the elementary teachings of repentance. (Heb 6) It is NOT the deeper life and certainly not the pinnacle of Christian experience. Encouragement has it's place in the New Testament church as much as rebuking does. To simply tell a believer constantly that they may not actually be saved and that they are sinful wretches who must "die daily" (which is a horrific misinterpretation of scripture) is to create a culture of navel gazing, hopeless, sick hearted people. People who desperately want to be used by God but who are held in bondage because they have developed an addiction to ONE elementary truth of scripture.
I love Paul Washer and have been challenged by some of his teachings. However, my present identity is NOT that of a totally depraved, black hearted sinner. To believe that is to mock the cross and cheapen the sacrifice of Jesus.
Please don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying Down with Paul Washer and bring forth the royal diadem for Joel Osteen. I believe Joel Osteen is in great error in his teaching and preaching. However, it is just as much of an error and just as HERETICAL to focus primarily and perpetually on repentance and heart searching. The command to search the heart occurs but a handful of times in the NT and the bulk of Paul's writings teach us to believe on the imputed and imparted righteousness of Jesus Christ. There are just as many (perhaps...) in the body that aredeceived by a morbid fixation on heart searching as there are those deceived by a message of greasy grace. Both are unbalanced. We should not glorify one imbalanced teaching in favor of another. Rather we should seek the whole counsel of God which is not happiness and prosperity, but is also not perpetual heart searching and salvation questioning.
Just my thoughts.
God Bless
Jeff

...I hope I did not come across as arrogant in my last post. I am certainly open to correction on this matter. Understand my heart is not one bit into cotton candy preaching. But I am also not into the angry, pseudo-prophet/watchmen wannabee's who tout the message of repentance as THE GOSPEL (meaning the exclusive and only message of the gospel.) Many who jump on the "watchman" bandwagon don't have genuine love for the saints which is a requirement for the TRUE prophetic ministry. They are similar to the watchmen in Song of Solomon 5:7:

7 The watchmen found me
as they made their rounds in the city.
They beat me, they bruised me;
they took away my cloak,
those watchmen of the walls!

In this instance the beloved of the King was desperately searching for him as her laziness and self-centered(ness) had previously caused his departure. She realized her error and was now frantically searching for him. When she encountered the watchmen they beat this one most precious to the king and treated her as a criminial. I've found that many who have a genuine prophetic/watchmen calling find themselves falling into this same error. They look at those desperately seeking Jesus and instead of pointing them to Him, they beat them and strip them of their cloaks (the imparted righteousness of Jesus Christ). At least this was what I once did. I speak from experience as a victimizer not a victim. I once operated in this pseud-watchmen mentality, mostly because of immaturity, and trust me, I had alot of bruised people.
I think many times in the name of correcting error or bringing balance, we create an error. We find ourselves on such a witch-hunt, however, that we miss the very error we are creating. I truly believe that many in the church are creating great error right now in the name of correcting it. Maybe I'm wrong, but these are just my thoughts on the matter.
God bless,
Jeff

1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth,supposing that gain is godliness: [b] from such withdraw thyself. [/b]

Is this directed at my comments or general?
God Bless
Jeff

:) I'm sorry, my bad. I was referring to hmmhmm.
God Bless
Jeff

FireinmyBones1 wrote:
:) I'm sorry, my bad. I was referring to hmmhmm.
God Bless
Jeff

If you meant the verses of scripture i posted? then it was not for you,(unless you felt so by the spirit) , i did not "aim" it at you. Its just I found lately many many people "defending" Osteen and other similar teachers that CLEARLY teaches a perverted gospel and a false Babylonian Christianity.

and i think anyone would do them an eternal gain to run for their life's and warn others from these so called pastors that robes people of Christ and make them focus on "your best life now" instead of your best life in eternity.

hmmhmm wrote:
Its just I found lately many many people "defending" Osteen and other similar teachers that CLEARLY teaches a perverted gospel and a false Babylonian Christianity.

perverted gospel? I have never in my life seen or hear of anyone that teaches a "perfect" gospel except Jesus Christ and also I truly believe if we "all" did more preaching in the mirror we would worry less about the way others preach. :-)

MrBillPro wrote:

hmmhmm wrote:
Its just I found lately many many people "defending" Osteen and other similar teachers that CLEARLY teaches a perverted gospel and a false Babylonian Christianity.

perverted gospel? I have never in my life seen or hear of anyone that teaches a "perfect" gospel except Jesus Christ and also I truly believe if we "all" did more preaching in the mirror we would worry less about the way others preach. :-)

you are probably right, but at the same time we cant just ignore that Paul did this in almost everyone of his letters, john did it, peter did it, and Jesus himself exposed wrong, false and perverted teachings. And so should we. I believe it is our responsibility as Christians to EXPOSE the false teachings. And the current condition of western Christianity is because Christians have FAILED in doing this in their FEAR OF MAN and offending anyone and that is why we se so many false teachings, the salt has lost its effectiveness. May we get a greater burden for the love of God and truth. Then we wont mind what people think. I am not speaking as one who has arrived but as one pressing forward by his grace.

Not going to waste much of my time on these threads anymore it seems like there is one everyday here now and that is why I took a short vacation from here, but if God elected you and others as the Pastor Police carry on soldier, I just wished we could all focus more on encouraging and the lifting up of others in the world this world could use more of it, but some have in in there blood to go in a different direction and that is none of my business.